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The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is here! You can read all about it in the news.

  • Quote from Palmu: “Quote from Laurfelt: “Aren't you risking that the enemy just ignores the wardogs, moves up full speed in the middle, and you are unable to get away from all the free charges you have set for them turn 2?? I mean, 10 dogs in a congaline is a looong line and only your fliers will be able to fly over them. Would love to see some pics of how you do this ” I wanted to come back to this for a third time - This response feels really similar to a lot of stuff I've spoken about in othe…

  • 2.0 BH Beta Discussion Thread

    DanT - - Beast Herds (BH)

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    Quote from Davian: “I think more people who have opinions about the armies in T9A should think like you do. Meta is very different around the world. Even in same countries or cities. Even in different playing groups. ” Agreed Everyone plays this game in different contexts. Sometimes, something as simple as the local terrain availability/layouts can strongly affect how one views certain units or playstyles. We all need to try to be aware of our context and how it shapes our views. And sometimes t…

  • Quote from Tyranno: “Quote from DanT: “I saw your list in the Cardiff list pack, was great to see Makhar make a showing there, kudos Thanks! Out of interest, what were your opponent's reactions to the army? Did they like it? A lot didn't like the concept, but found it not as annoying as they had envisioned. Even if I spammed Horse Archers, their frailty would have probably had the same overall effect. Were any of them not aware it was a thing? I think the podcast made people aware of it. But the…

  • I saw your list in the Cardiff list pack, was great to see Makhar make a showing there, kudos Out of interest, what were your opponent's reactions to the army? Did they like it? Were any of them not aware it was a thing? Etc etc... (Asking cos I keep encouraging UK TOs to allow the auxiliary books, so being able to point them to first hand accounts is useful )

  • DE 2.1 Balance Patch

    DanT - - Dread Elves (DE)

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    Quote from noir: “As I said Internal balance wise it does make sense. Externally I’m not sure. ” @Shako 's wonderful combined ETC thread is interesting for examining external balance changes due to the update. the-ninth-age.com/community/in…ostID=1293501#post1293501 Looking at that data I think DE have a case for external balance changes to be looked into, given the tier list. (Of course, lots of assumptions and approximations going into these statements, such as it requires the belief that ETC …

  • Quote from Idum: “BH are also not well correlated: they are in line with tier 1 instead of tier 2 with >100pts change both in avg & med, and their max decrease is... a significant increase (3x bigger than that of VS) ” I'm sure people from every army will come up with reasons why their army doesn't correlate I stand by my statements at the basic/simplest level of response. Maybe there is a sensible argument for BH to be 5th in the priority order, but given the inherent uncertainties and approxim…

  • @Shako Amazing job, fair play This is very good quantitative feedback to give to RT about the update and I'm sure it will be very useful. Absolute top job, well done. Lets rank. UD 277 (possibly complicated by rules changes) VS 159 BH 114 WDG 75 DE 65 VC 58 OK 53 SA 28 EOS 24 O&G 3 KOE -0.6 (possibly complicated by rules changes) DH -11 ID -34 SE -67 HE -76 Tiers from news post: Top tier: UD, VS High Tier: WDG, VC, OK, BH, DL Mid Tier: KoE, OnG Low Tier: DE, DH, EoS, SA SE, ID Bottom tier: H…

  • Quote from matrim: “My main bone with the dogs is ” Hahaha, I missed this. Well played sir

  • Quote from Clangeddin Silverbeard: “I'm loving those pre-planned maps, because they always (I think?) feature ruins, and I nearly always bring the torch. I don't understand why the torch isn't more popular. It's a legit advantage in deployment versus everyone, and it's a brutal advantage versus SE. ” I'm pretty sold on it as well. I think 30pts is really reasonable, and the ability to move freely through ruins can be huge for an army that wants to play aggressively and concentrate combat power. …

  • @lawgnome I keep getting told off for derailing threads (all I did originally here was ask for some data). I've also already had this argument like 7 times recently, and I don't have the energy to have it again in detail. Put simply: The goal (as I understand it) is to deliver vaguely sensible usage of each unit and factions that have roughly equal chances of winning. These two things create pressures that drive prices. Given these two goals, I think most of your analysis is ultimately irrelevan…

  • Quote from lawgnome: “Isnt that how it goes, though? Obviously, there are some exceptions (like the increase on gws for disciples of Lugar), but still: 1) if a unit or item combination is generally perceived as the best in slot for any given army (resulting in the majority of players using it), the price tends to go up. Thus, the more something is used, the more likely that they get a price increase during balancing patches. 2) if a unit is perceived as too weak for the cost, people use them les…

  • Quote from lawgnome: “That does make sense. You will see a lot more of a unit if it offers something unique to the army and a desired playstyle, such as SA temple guard. The price goes up because people keep using them, and people keep using them because they are the best combat bunker for the frog. There is no perfect price, because there is no competition. ” I don't think this analysis is sound. Two simple considerations (rather than write another essay): (A) External balance pressures (units …

  • Quote from WhammeWhamme: “I'd start by splitting "performance balanced" and "aesthetically balanced". Performance balance: the current internal/external balance Aesthetic balance: units that are similar to the eye being priced similarly Between books? This will in some cases act contrarily to performance balance pressures. What about synergy pieces? How is aesthetic balanced is defined in these cases? The goal would be to get performance balance and aesthetic balance to be close. Sure. Feel free…

  • Quote from Tyranno: “What specific aspect of them do they complain about? ” They can't fight them. Very few things other than deathstars can fight immortals+overlord. Sometimes you don't even need the overlord. Anything that does outfight them is usually either (A) easily countered by something else in the list or (B) sufficient points that I am left with a battlefield advantage if they go after the immortals. I also found their special rules gave me a huge edge in certain microstates if I deliv…

  • Hahaha, I love some of these comments. Some of my opponents hate playing against my immortals and think they are broken. And I never take them with the banner. #funnyoldworld

  • Quote from Tyranno: “Quote from DanT: “Maybe ACSes can even find out the differences between different sources for immortals. ” What do you mean by "different sources"? ” I think someone else answered this. If not the answer is in the news posts. Quote from Crazydwarf: “And even then, is that even good enough?Special is, as in the name suggest, special units... They provide something unique to the board (wolf are chaff/redirectors, Tauruhks are *heavy* cav, and immortals are the bodyguard) But a…

  • 2.1 OnG Chat

    DanT - - Orcs and Goblins (O&G)

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    Quote from Shako: “ Average: +3,25 points ” Pretty interesting stat for an army that is considered to be the right power level. This suggests to me that O&G changes are on the right lines for what the project seemed to be trying to achieve this update.

  • Quote from Tyranno: “Quote from DanT: “I guess it would be interesting to see the same number for the other special choices in ID, but I'm don't have time to dig them all out. If most(all?) of them are lower than 26% then I think the small points increase is pretty self explanatory. ” Only the Anointed were used less than Immortals, at 39 lists using the big bulls. Taurukhs and Wolf Riders were used more. (Taurukhs seemingly popped up in 95 lists, to the Immortals 42). ” Interesting. So possibly…

  • 2.0 BH Beta Discussion Thread

    DanT - - Beast Herds (BH)

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    Quote from Shako: “Quote from Mirdhynn: “Do you have some numbers about the standard deviation for all armies ? This to put in perspective the "it passes or it breaks" aspect of the armies. I calculate 34 pts of standard deviation for the BH army. ” I have not (yet). At the moment a couple of armies are still missing their ETC calculations, which I'm going to do today/tomorrow. If I have the spare time I'll do a post in the general forum covering all 16 armies and their values. ” @Shako for pres…

  • Quote from Shako: “From 169 armylists:26 units of "small" Immortals (15-20 models) in 24 different armylists 22 units of "big" Immortals (21+ models) in 20 different armylists 42 units had shields, in 40 different armylists 40 had Infernal Weapons, in 38 different armylists. Lets say no one took a big and a small unit together, that would mean 44/169 armylists had Immortals in them, a usage of 26%. By the way, all this data is freely avaiable for everyone. In every subforum there's a thread for …