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  • It seems natural that having only so a few scoring units while scoring is necessary means these units are heavily played. It also seems that these units are played more than what player would want. Hence there are two possible solutions : Tune the army around playing less scorers (possibly nerfing these scoring units, in favour of other units) or increasing the diversity of the scorer option (not on the table for this update, removing some light troops). Given that the second possibility is not …

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    Quote from Bogi: “Quote from Falco: “Talking about our wood friends: Are TB and treeman a little bit expensive for that atributes? Compared with another monsters or monstruos infantery... Appart from everyone with pyro banners or able to take alchemy... TB are 20 points more expensive than one year ago ” I guess that's the way things go, units which are commonly used get point increases regardless of external balance. TB have great stats for their cost, probably the best in the game but are very…

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    I mostly agree with DanT. The army would be probably more efficient, easier to balance and more satisfying with a bit less mobility on archers. I don't agree with QTF though. Imho it plays more into shooting efficiency than into avoidance. SA are un comparable to Sentinels in term of easyness to charge. On the other hand, among the 5 shooting units of the book (3 infantry and 2 cavalry), 4 of them have light troops. And that is the main avoidance offender. Being able to relocate freely within ma…

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    Quote from WhammeWhamme: “No. Those are not valid things to say in regards to the slim book either. The slim book is not being designed or redesigned. If you want to talk about "design", you're talking about either the LAB, or history (and you can't change the past). ” Please link me to the place where intended play rate of all unit in the book has been defined and set in stone, with the information that balance update won't change it. Otherwise your point is entirely void. Hint: You can't becau…

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    Quote from Bogi: “Could this then apply to, for example, all rank and file troops in the game? ” Well, I think it is a valid design suggestion and something that is compatible with the design and balance processes, to the best of my knowledge. (I think DanT proposed something along this lines as well?) But I'm just saying that it make sense to discuss arround it. I don't know if that something RT would be up to or if it is in the scope of the balance update, and maybe there would be a lot of uni…

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    Quote from DanT: “Quote from Serwyn: “Again the community is asked a direct input in the form of "which units are most underplayed" and "which units are most overplayed". Omitting some details, this pretty directly means "which unit are too cost efficient" and "which unit are not cost efficient enough". Especially sincre the update won't change anything but points. So why wouldn't it be reasonable for the community to discuss and argue which feedback is the good one? For example someone may find…

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    To everyone else reading: I insist and repeat yet another time just to be clear. Don't say "SE Archers cost more than HE archers that is a scandal why does the project hate SE". That's very bad. Bouh.

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    Again the community is asked a direct input in the form of "which units are most underplayed" and "which units are most overplayed". Omitting some details, this pretty directly means "which unit are too cost efficient" and "which unit are not cost efficient enough". Especially sincre the update won't change anything but points. So why wouldn't it be reasonable for the community to discuss and argue which feedback is the good one? For example someone may find that BD are too highly priced and not…

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    @WhammeWhamme : But the feedback is not necessarily aimed towards the LAB team The internal balance process has a subjective part: What is considered internaly balanced? It's pretty non-controversial for example, that in an "internally balanced" SE book, there should be more Sylvan Archer than Unicorns. But some other decisions are not that easy: If unit A has three options and unit B no options, should A and B be played about as much? Should each option of B be played as much as A? Somewhere in…

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    Quote from WhammeWhamme: “Quote from Drakkanor: “I guess somewhere there should guidelines that state what an army should good at and what not, correct me if I'm wrong.The current state of SE shooting (very low impact on the game, a liability most of the times) is something the project is ok with or it is supposed to be fixed with the LAB? Ok maybe it's a error but a HbE wizard master costs 10 points more than a druid and has +1dis, +1 casting and access to better magic items. Is it unfair? IMO …

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    I think SA are the sweet spot in term of mobility. They're mobile enough with QTF and have enough incentive to go into short-range to make interesting movement phases and decisions, and as a player you can feel and use their mobility to protect them a bit. And at the the same time they're not so mobile that they become uncatchable. The opponent can reliably engage them with a fast unit or two slower units. I would be happy with another archer unit, more elite but non core and still without light…

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    Quote from Arrahed: “I am not convinced that what you ask will lead to a useable result @DanT, but I'm happy to be proven wrong. I will try to provide what you ask for: Goals: - Make SE shooting output more predictable in regard to matchup. - Reduce vulnerability to hard counters: Ranged auto hits. - Challenge: Highly meta-dependent. Highly matchup dependent. Probably unsolvable without knowing how other LABs will develop. - Turn [lexicon]Pathfinder[/lexicon] [lexicon]Kindred[/lexicon] into disc…

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    Please guys again don't mix internal and external balance. These are two fairly distinct processes. You mostly do not need to evaluate the external balance of the army to improve its internal balance.

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    About sylvan archers they indeed suffer from a meta problem. In a meta of light cavalry, Sylvan Archers are kings. As the most basic and iconic unit of the book I don't think it's fine that they're as meta dependent So to go along with a specific suggestion: I think that in any meta and in any list a SE player can build, it shouldn't be a bad idea to take one or two units of Sylvan Archers. Also there should exist competitive lists with at least 40 Sylvan Archers. This implies: That they're dece…

  • Thanks for the laugh man xD Good bye!

  • C'est un processus assez compliqué. Il y a un patch d'équilibrage chaque année autours de décembre, avec d'une part l'objectif que les entrées d'une armée soient toutes utilisables (équilibrage interne) et que toutes les armées soient également compétitives (équilibrage externe). Ce patch annuel est basé sur une grosse collecte de donnée de tournois, qui permettent d'observer les ratios de victoires des différentes armées et quelles unités sont tout le temps ou jamais utilisées. C'est l'équipe d…

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    That's not how balance work guys. Things are not and will not be priced compared to similar options in other books. See it that way (schematic): Things are priced only for internal balance, so that all options are playable and various list are more or less equally good. THEN you apply a global price multiplier on the points in the army to try to get good external balance. These are two different (orthogonal) processes. No, pricing skeletons while taking into account the rest of the army is not "…

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    Stuborn (and Aegis) on a monster is not to be neglected though. Means he can't get overwhelmed by combat resolution.

  • What SE currently lacks

    Serwyn - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    I didn't even indicate bows to be up in the survey. I don't think a 5-10% reduction will make them playable anyway, so I thought it would be better to focus on other solvable issues.

  • Quote from WhammeWhamme: “Quote from Serwyn: “Nah, pathfinder are the "short" range anti armour and sentinels more like the long range anti thoughness Pathfinder fullfill the elite archers fantasy. I don't see the book not having some elite scouts archers in some way. Maybe a true elite non-scout archers unit and a good scooting one. Sentinels kind of compensate for the lack or war machine, they could very well be scrapped and replaced imho. ” Just to be clear, when I said "long range" I meant i…