Differentiating Elf Spearmen

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    • Differentiating Elf Spearmen

      My brother had a wildcard idea for setting the Elf armies a bit more apart, one that he necessarily don't want to actually see implemented but thought up for the fun of it. I don't mind generic core infantry that might mirror each other across several army books, but anyhow here is his idea:

      Wood Elves have elite spear infantry (just as is already the case), while the civilized Elves have masses of well-drilled spear militia in phalanxes, yet lorewise their equipment and way of fighting would differ. The Dark Elves would be more offensive and thus get to fight in one extra rank, loading more attacks. The High Elves would be more defensive and receive +1 armour save against close combat attacks from the front.

      Thoughts?
    • Why on earth would elite spearmen only hunt for a living? If they're called hunters somewhere in their name, then obviously they are up for more lethal game than stags and wolves and naturally there would be a great deal of hard training behind it. In an army also sporting Wardancers, one can be sure it would be an armed martial artform. GW established the Eternal Guard as a spear elite unit in 6th edition, and it seem fitting that the Wood Elves would show up with considerably more bodies at bows than spears, than their urbane cousins do. :)
    • Karak Norn Clansman wrote:

      Why on earth would elite spearmen only hunt for a living? If they're called hunters somewhere in their name, then obviously they are up for more lethal game than stags and wolves and naturally there would be a great deal of hard training behind it. In an army also sporting Wardancers, one can be sure it would be an armed martial artform. GW established the Eternal Guard as a spear elite unit in 6th edition, and it seem fitting that the Wood Elves would show up with considerably more bodies at bows than spears, than their urbane cousins do. :)
      Why would they spend more time training than a military professional?

      DE Legionnaires should not be militia. Dread elves should be a militarized culture. They shouldn't use militia, because much of the population would be engaged full-time in warfare-related activities (and even the population engaged in other activities are probably the equivalent of a reserve or retired veterans, not poorly trained militia).

      Militia only make sense for societies which engage in infrequent, mostly smaller scale warfare, and only need a general muster in the face of a large invasion. Societies which engage in frequent military activities create professional armies and well-trained reserves.

      (Example: late medieval England didn't rely on militias for the Hundred Years War. The English longbowmen may have been peasants, but they were required by law to train in the use of the longbow and thus functioned as a skilled force of reserves, not a militia.)

      SE simply don't have the infrastructure to support such a society, which means their ability to support a dedicated military is much reduced. The SE background even says they aren't war-like. Of all the elves, they're the ones most likely to use a militia (although HbE fielding militia units is both plausible and appropriate).
      Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.

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    • Karak Norn Clansman wrote:

      Why on earth would elite spearmen only hunt for a living? If they're called hunters somewhere in their name, then obviously they are up for more lethal game than stags and wolves and naturally there would be a great deal of hard training behind it. In an army also sporting Wardancers, one can be sure it would be an armed martial artform. GW established the Eternal Guard as a spear elite unit in 6th edition, and it seem fitting that the Wood Elves would show up with considerably more bodies at bows than spears, than their urbane cousins do. :)
      Okay, tell me about that extensive Sylvan Elf agricultural system that produces enough surplus food year-round to have a class of spearmen who are completely unproductive in society EXCEPT for their military function, allowing them to train all day, every day.

      Which is what professional soldiers do.
    • I feel you are making a fundamental mistake of equating Core units with the most numerous unit.

      Core units are simply those units that are most likely to be encountered within the army, it does not indicate their great numbers - though more often than not they are also the most numerous units available to the army


      For example compared to Peasant the Nobles in Equitaine are not numerous yet units of nobles form the Core of the army. Same goes for example for Boar Riders in an OnG, they are not more numerous than footsloggers yet both are Core because they are just likely to be found in OnG hordes.

      In that same manner the number of Forest Guard is a fraction of Citizen Spear/Dread Legionnaires available to HE/DE army but all three units are just as likely to be found in the armies of their respective factions. :)

      There are ample similar examples scattered across army books.

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    • Even if Mr. Syvlan Elf Spearman accounts is 0.0001% of the population, he's still got to eat. And if he's practicing his spear full-time as a professional soldier, he's not hunting and gathering.

      And my impression of Sylvan Elf culture is not one of high surpluses...

      Quoting the SE book: " These elves devote their lives to protection of their kin from the dangers of the world. They are the guards in halls of the lords, keepers of peace in the groves and the spearwall on the field of battle. Though respected and honoured for their service, most Trewi keep their distance for it is vested in these elves to uphold the unwritten laws of the forest and carry out sentences no matter how grim they may be."

      In other words, as much village guards and policemen/judges as soldiers. They are not exclusive battlefield soldiers; they spend much time in idle guard duty; much time practicing stealth guarding sacred groves; much time honing their judgement as the keepers of justice on the forest.

      This is not condusive to keeping your combat skills honed to an elite unit's razor's edge.

      In short, there is NO EXCUSE for SE spearmen to be head-and-shoulders above all other elven spearmen.
    • Don't have a problem with SE being the best spears in the game...Towerguard also stand guard in halls...so? what that makes them any less of a soldier?

      Anyhows....!

      Onto the actually point of this thread....

      SE fine don't change what isn't broken.....

      HE as a naturally defensive army you could argue that they should have the best defensive buffs stuff like Fight in an Extra Rank is totally fine....like from a population stand point their about trying to stay in control and thus it makes sense that what little soldiers they have they would train to the tenth degree....since you don't have quantity so quality will have to make up for it....for me Fight in an Extra Rank makes sense, their trained to fight to maximise the amount of attacks and thus overcoming quantity with quality....

      DE okay here's where the cookie crumbles? Can't we just be that race that gets cheaper spears? DE society is a highly militarised culture and thus shouldn't we just be able to raise soldiers more easily than any other race - since everyone has done the training. I don't want an arms race about who gets the better spears blah de blah...something like oh DE are "professionals" so we should get the best stats because we're the ones always fighting...