Army build - remove limitations, add extracost taxes

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  • Army build - remove limitations, add extracost taxes

    Hi everyone,
    some players are very upset about the new composition system. while i'm okay with the 1.2 version, i can understand what they can feel when lots of their miniatures go back to the selve (I remember that dark GW period...).
    To my opinion, T9A is going to much towards a restrictive game with too much limitations (0-2, 0-3 combined to a category system), that completely forbid thematic armies. Some what to play a full fast cavalry army, other an hardcore gunline or whaterver, now it's impossible.
    So instead of building impassables walls, why cant we have a more flexible system based on extracost taxes for duplicated units to limit abusives builds ?

    For example : i want my 80+ archers in my SE army, i'm free to buy as units i want, but after the third core archers unit, i have to pay them 50% more (even the options and equipment). Same for the special ones but only after the second or after the first for others categories. To make it simplier, all unit could cost X points more, if you play Y or more of them.
    Or why dont create themed army like what have Daemon Legion or Ogre Khans with more some restrictions, in particular, thoses taxes on every unit. Example : "you can buy up to 100% of Powder Keg instead of 35%, but every unit in this category cost 10% more".
    Or, player should have if they want an "unbound compostion" where there is no limitation at all, but every unit cost X % more and/or cost X% more for duplicated units after the First/second/third (depending on their category).
    What do you think ?

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Batcat ().

  • That's basically the approach that the swedish comp took to WHFB 8th - and it's probably the best one for pure effect. However, it has some rather big issues:

    1- Unit-specific cost increases per copy are hard to adjust, scale badly with game size, and are horribly hard to maintain
    2- linear increases break for units with a non-linear gain per additional unit (most monsters and warmachines, for example)
    3- Exponential cost increases break for units with linear increases, AND are hell to calculate
    4- Pure free-form list selection, even with such restrictions, is ripe for hard RPS "my list wins against yours before the game begins". It doesn't matter how hard something might be taxed, an all infantry army vs an all flyers army is asking for trouble.

    The sad truth is that, unless the game basic engine changes -a lot-, the 4th point is going to kill a good number of interesting army build designs.
  • Well, i'm not sure that the 4th point is relevant as long as we play with scenarios. I mean a lot of units arent scoring.

    I agree with you for the other points, but i think that the 9th age game designers can find out a good compromise between simplicity and balance.
    Maybe something like : 10% extra cost for core/special units for each unit after the first duplicated unit (20% is you buy 3, 30% if you buy 4, and so on). then for monsters/machines that tax would be higher like +20% for each unit if you buy 2 of them, then 40%, etc. (Example : 1 cannon=100 pts, 2 cannons 240 pts, 3 cannons = 420 pts)
  • I think every unit needs a maximum.
    It could be and in fact I know a lot of units where this maximum is IMO too low.

    If there is a problem with linear point costs for additional models then the easiest way would be to implement one further step e.g.

    10 models: 100 pts
    Up to 10 additional models: 8 pts per model
    Up to 20 additional models: 12 pts per model

    This would support MMU where possible/necessary (medium sized units are rarely go min or max).
    The most common formations are small units or big units as bus or horde....because the rule meta benefits this. This is why medium sized units should be(come) cheaper per model.

    Quick Starter Team