Celestial Sons

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    • Celestial Sons

      Hi everyone! First of all, I have to say I'm not use to write in english so I apologize if I write something wrong xD

      A few months ago, I read the thread "Celestials in 9th?" and I thought it was a nice idea to give people the necesary tools to play with other kinds of army, and the option to get a better game adding posibilities.

      First time, I wrote Drafts in spanish, because it was easier test army list in my language, but now I have just finish the translation, so everybody can see it and comment his army test. I hope a lot of you enjoy the army book, and I hope everyone can understand it because I translated it as well as I knew XDD.

      Link in dropbox (Keeping in mind all player's evaluation):

      Celestial Sons for 1.3.4

      Celestial Sons for 2.0.4.1

      (This version was made using the community feedback)

      The post was edited 7 times, last by blocsanchez: New Army book version and translation ().

    • It's alright for an early draft, though there are a few things I would like to point out:

      Some wordings and phrases feel either unnecessarily long (e.g. "Parts of the Model" should just be "Model Parts") or a bit off. A few names are weird. Also a few typos and grammar errors here and there. But I know English is not your main language, so that's understandable.

      Gladiator and Meditative Purity seem a little long and complex for special rules. Most special rules usually have only two distinct effects at most, makes it easier to remember or memorize what they do.

      Also that is a lot of Magical Items. Most armies only have a total of 10 Magical Items unless they are not allowed to take Common Magical Items that aren't Standards. But in this case, your Army seems to be only restricted from taking Arcane Items (which is a bit redundant if they cannot have Wizards in the first place anyway).

      I am not good with evaluating the units and everything else in the army and how well they might perform in practice, I'm afraid I will have to leave that to someone who is better at examining armies, but I hope my advice helps at least a bit in polishing and balancing this army.
      Hello there! If you are interested in reading my homebrew content, you may visit this thread.

      I have not collected or painted armies yet, but I am interested in playing on Universal Battle.
    • FerrokenFibrous wrote:

      It's alright for an early draft, though there are a few things I would like to point out:

      Some wordings and phrases feel either unnecessarily long (e.g. "Parts of the Model" should just be "Model Parts") or a bit off. A few names are weird. Also a few typos and grammar errors here and there. But I know English is not your main language, so that's understandable.

      Gladiator and Meditative Purity seem a little long and complex for special rules. Most special rules usually have only two distinct effects at most, makes it easier to remember or memorize what they do.

      Also that is a lot of Magical Items. Most armies only have a total of 10 Magical Items unless they are not allowed to take Common Magical Items that aren't Standards. But in this case, your Army seems to be only restricted from taking Arcane Items (which is a bit redundant if they cannot have Wizards in the first place anyway).

      I am not good with evaluating the units and everything else in the army and how well they might perform in practice, I'm afraid I will have to leave that to someone who is better at examining armies, but I hope my advice helps at least a bit in polishing and balancing this army.
      Thank you very much, I needed someone who see grammatical errors to solve it, because I'm not used to write english.

      Maybe Gladiator and Purity could be reduce, but I don't know how to explain it better xD. I have bee thinking to ease that rules.

      You are not the one who tell me the problem with the Magical Items jajajaja, the thing is I thought to write more than anybody body could use to see what items the people use, and then remove leftovers. And you are right, I forget only wizards can use arcane items, I have to correct it.

      I think is a awesome evaluation, and I pay attention in that points to write next version!
    • Good stuff and thank you for the effort.

      There are a couple of OP units such as light tropps monstrous cav or T5 monstrous cav that might need a bit of a nerf. (E.g remove light tropps from the chickens and max 3+ armor on baby dragons)

      Also there is a lot of synergy that needs to be toned down a bit. Like the inspiring presence bubble for 70pts or 5+ ward for all unit for 100pts.

      3+ to dispell is either worded in a way i dont understand or extremely op even though the army does not have mages.

      Also too many core choices, some like the baby chickens and wargs might have to be moved to special.

      The magic item list is too long and some of the items seems to be undercosted.

      Finally i think ws5 on core should be ws4.

      In the end excellent effort and a great start. But be aware it is better to have underpowered units rather than overpowered ones and gradually increase power levels for a new/proposed/homebrew army. Especially one so touchy as stormbros which a lot of people have unnecesary amounts of vitroil against.

      Overall a great army for a beginning player that is cheap to collect and fast/easy to paint.

      A+ for a start and thank you very much for the effort.
      I am the fat Turk that infiltrated the Norwegian Druid Caste.

      I would have been better than you if I could roll a 4 on 2D6.

      To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of ELVES.

      Sylvan Elves
      Dread Elves
      Beast Herds
      Daemonic Legions
      Warriors of the Dark Gods
      Storm Cast Eternals (WAIT WHAT?)
    • LegioIgnatum wrote:

      Good stuff and thank you for the effort.

      There are a couple of OP units such as light tropps monstrous cav or T5 monstrous cav that might need a bit of a nerf. (E.g remove light tropps from the chickens and max 3+ armor on baby dragons)

      Also there is a lot of synergy that needs to be toned down a bit. Like the inspiring presence bubble for 70pts or 5+ ward for all unit for 100pts.

      3+ to dispell is either worded in a way i dont understand or extremely op even though the army does not have mages.

      Also too many core choices, some like the baby chickens and wargs might have to be moved to special.

      The magic item list is too long and some of the items seems to be undercosted.

      Finally i think ws5 on core should be ws4.

      In the end excellent effort and a great start. But be aware it is better to have underpowered units rather than overpowered ones and gradually increase power levels for a new/proposed/homebrew army. Especially one so touchy as stormbros which a lot of people have unnecesary amounts of vitroil against.

      Overall a great army for a beginning player that is cheap to collect and fast/easy to paint.

      A+ for a start and thank you very much for the effort.
      Really usefull critics!! I'll keep it for the next version.

      Probably chiken cavalry is OP, that's one of the unit I still couldn't test. I thought to remove that rule and most propably I'll do it. In dragon cavalry I thought to add models is too cheap and I'll increase their cost.

      Light Prometers it was a experiment. it's really fun use that inspiring presence, but I when I tested it, I didn't see a huge danger, perhaps I didn't use all their potential... Ward Save (200 pts) and another magic items will be remove, They are in the rule book only to test it, but you are right, they are really powerful.

      I thought to move Wargs and Beaters in Special units. The baby chiken should be in core to have at least one unit cheaper, as ogre khans have scraplings.

      when I pleyed the units with WS 5, I expected nobody cant touch me xD, but absolutely no, I see +1 to-hit rolls and I fight against hordes using hand weapon and shield... I saw Ws 5 isn't a problem for the enemy because you haven't units enought. But I need more points of view, in what context would it be a problem?

      Finally, Prayers light... It have a bad translation for sure xD, I'm spanish and I'm not use to speak or write english, and nobody helped me to translate it so... Anyways, the thing is if some wizard make a spell succesfully, you can dispell it roll 3+ in a dice. But there is only one dice per prayer light, and only selectors and firstborn purger have it (maximum a total of three per army, around 900 pts)


      I want to improve this rule book, and I keep in mind your comments to make the next version. Thanks you very much!
    • will play games with your AB and post feedback after ETC
      I am the fat Turk that infiltrated the Norwegian Druid Caste.

      I would have been better than you if I could roll a 4 on 2D6.

      To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of ELVES.

      Sylvan Elves
      Dread Elves
      Beast Herds
      Daemonic Legions
      Warriors of the Dark Gods
      Storm Cast Eternals (WAIT WHAT?)
    • Hi,I really like the idea and the units you have proposed. But I would do some main tweaks to some units:

      -first, agile claw welps. I would remove scoring and reduce the minimum unit size to 6(as GW box). This way they will not lose so many attacks from the second rank as and you can use them as chaff.

      -move wargs and beaters to special as you suggested and lose scoring maybe reducing points to compensate this.

      -Scoring demidrake cavalry and I don't know is this is an error bur character's mounts are 50x100 base and utit's are 50x75

      -Reduce agile claws strenght plus one and give them armour piercing(1). Also change mount protect us for hard target which will act similar.

      -And finally I find sentinels a little bit underpowered. 1D2 is quite strange so I think 1D3-1 for each one seems better. And 0 plus 1 for each to hit roll seems quite low. With 3 models at long distances you normally do 1 or 4 hits only and with not partial hit as some of them would have hit.
      I love the Idea but increase by one the minimum of area attack if it hits beacuse if the unit is big you have a bigger area attack but also higher chances of autoinflicting wounds.
      Edit:Lastly I think that should be specified that they could not make a partial hit as that would overcomplicate an already complex unit.
      So to say that I don't have tested it on the table but this are just my first impressions and suggestios. Good job and I look forward to this army, seems amusing.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by jeavent ().

    • jeavent wrote:

      Hi,I really like the idea and the units you have proposed. But I would do some main tweaks to some units:

      -first, agile claw welps. I would remove scoring and reduce the minimum unit size to 6(as GW box). This way they will not lose so many attacks from the second rank as and you can use them as chaff.

      -move wargs and beaters to special as you suggested and lose scoring maybe reducing points to compensate this.

      -Scoring demidrake cavalry and I don't know is this is an error bur character's mounts are 50x100 base and utit's are 50x75

      -Reduce agile claws strenght plus one and give them armour piercing(1). Also change mount protect us for hard target which will act similar.

      -And finally I find sentinels a little bit underpowered. 1D2 is quite strange so I think 1D3-1 for each one seems better. And 0 plus 1 for each to hit roll seems quite low. With 3 models at long distances you normally do 1 or 4 hits only and with not partial hit as some of them would have hit.
      I love the Idea but increase by one the minimum of area attack if it hits beacuse if the unit is big you have a bigger area attack but also higher chances of autoinflicting wounds.
      Edit:Lastly I think that should be specified that they could not make a partial hit as that would overcomplicate an already complex unit.
      So to say that I don't have tested it on the table but this are just my first impressions and suggestios. Good job and I look forward to this army, seems amusing.
      Hi! I really like your post, and I'll use it in the next version. I answer step by step:

      -Maybe the minimum could be 5, to be consistent with 9th age ranks... I could test it. Do you think they are a usefull core unit?, maybe I need to change their attributes to be better core units.

      -Completely agree

      - That's and error, I'll fix it

      -Maybe would be better to increase their cost as @LegioIgnatum said, and remove light troops rule. The thing is army strenght is not really high, so I'll try to keep that unit with strenght five. They are necesary.

      -Sentinels... They are a check, but they are too confusing and innecesary, so I'll change it to be more playable.

      I'm so grateful to see people who make the effort to advice amateur rule books! Thank so much and enjoy if you test it!
    • Agile claw welps are very powerful in my opinion. Comparing them with WDG warhounds, they hit worse but wound better and have 2 attacks, much more leadership, they are core and count as having a musician. They can chaff units and make support charges with 10 strenght 4 attacks at initiative 10 with only 5 of them. Although they do not have vanguard or poison, they are insignificant and their save is lower(but cannot be reduced) I find them preety good by all these reasons.
      Seeing that the warhouds are 100 pts 5 of them the welps would ok being around 120 pts for 5 of them I think.
      I hope this opinion of mine helps you.
      EDIT: Reading again the army book I see that the the 2 first rmy rules are not listed so I assume they affect to everyone. also maybe the musician ruleshould be only for eternals so wargs annd agile claw welps do not have it to be a little bit more fluffy?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by jeavent ().

    • Attached are some models for my 2017 ETC Ogre list just to give an idea how Ground Marines look on square bases.

      A bit blurry on some pictures as max size is 100kn but once all of the army is prepared I will post more pictures (e.g Thunder Cannon and Rock Auroch not fully finalized yet, also full conversion to square basis for all infantry is being done) for better vieweing.
      Files
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      I am the fat Turk that infiltrated the Norwegian Druid Caste.

      I would have been better than you if I could roll a 4 on 2D6.

      To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of ELVES.

      Sylvan Elves
      Dread Elves
      Beast Herds
      Daemonic Legions
      Warriors of the Dark Gods
      Storm Cast Eternals (WAIT WHAT?)
    • LegioIgnatum wrote:

      Attached are some models for my 2017 ETC Ogre list just to give an idea how Ground Marines look on square bases.

      A bit blurry on some pictures as max size is 100kn but once all of the army is prepared I will post more pictures (e.g Thunder Cannon and Rock Auroch not fully finalized yet, also full conversion to square basis for all infantry is being done) for better vieweing.
      Awesome! I'll be in 2017 ETC as a visitor. I'll pay attention if I see that models :D
    • Hi man, Im from spain too. It seems well written to me, just proofread a bit more and you can find some mistakes yourself. But overall is a very good job, Im willing to test it and give real feedback.

      Now I would like to coment my first impressions.
      - meditative purity+prayers light I like that system.can you use 2 or 3 dice to dispell one single spell? I mean, to ensure it. Make it clear.
      - the +1T enchanted item seems a bit op
      - selector and shofator have no cost, and I imagine they are not free. I dont understand the supreme selector upgrade, why on earth would I want a bigger base?
      - the rule "fly" is missing in the phoenix, maybe somewhere else.
      - eradicators missing the eradicator longbow in the equipment. And why shield?
      - give the aechangel shooting weapon "bolt thrower" and will be easier to explain.
      - sentinels seem a bit op from here. Its ok they let you use all the armor, but BS5 wounding on 3+, accurate and range 36um... They can so easily grind a big part of the monsters in the game.
      - colossal rider, meh. You already have a character to mount it. Does it mean it is not a mount for the worthiest? But also for the simplest sigmarine?
      - what is the first purger suposed to be? I like the idea but cannot imagine which model you had in mind.

      Good job man, I will try to play it.
    • Skie wrote:

      Hi man, Im from spain too. It seems well written to me, just proofread a bit more and you can find some mistakes yourself. But overall is a very good job, Im willing to test it and give real feedback.

      Now I would like to coment my first impressions.
      - meditative purity+prayers light I like that system.can you use 2 or 3 dice to dispell one single spell? I mean, to ensure it. Make it clear.
      - the +1T enchanted item seems a bit op
      - selector and shofator have no cost, and I imagine they are not free. I dont understand the supreme selector upgrade, why on earth would I want a bigger base?
      - the rule "fly" is missing in the phoenix, maybe somewhere else.
      - eradicators missing the eradicator longbow in the equipment. And why shield?
      - give the aechangel shooting weapon "bolt thrower" and will be easier to explain.
      - sentinels seem a bit op from here. Its ok they let you use all the armor, but BS5 wounding on 3+, accurate and range 36um... They can so easily grind a big part of the monsters in the game.
      - colossal rider, meh. You already have a character to mount it. Does it mean it is not a mount for the worthiest? But also for the simplest sigmarine?
      - what is the first purger suposed to be? I like the idea but cannot imagine which model you had in mind.

      Good job man, I will try to play it.
      hi! Thank you so much. At first, I have just finish all my work and I'll rewrite all that mistakes

      I aswer step by step:
      - In the beginning I thought to use only one dice per dispel-roll, but I think it could be interesting to use more... Maybe the problem would appear in that magic phases when the speller have 2 or 5 dice to use. What do you think about?
      -My fault, I hae to write it, I forget to do it, I'll give you here meanwhile: -Shofator: 210 pts (0-1 per army) Selector: 230 pts (0-2 per army)
      - hmm... Other characters usually attack with at least strenght 5-7, -i didn´t think it ould be a problem. The character using that enchated item would be a great tank but it wouldn't attack too strong I suppose
      - I'll rewrite it as soon as I can
      - My fault, I'll rewrite it too.
      - yes, it's the artillery gun in the army, it's like any other cannon, maybe should I delete accurate special rule?
      - xD, it's like ogre army, uros isn't for great khans, either tuskers...
      - It suppose to be celestant-prime, but all army could be represented using a lot of other models.

      I hope you enjoy testing it! I'll be waiting for your feedback
    • some very interesting ideas in here and some cool units, respect for the work put in. I fear a good number of the entries are wildly undercosted however (the first purger and colossal rider are super powerful if compared to a monster of equivalent points from any other book)

      Also I cant see any scoring units at all? is this a feature or an oversight? do you just autolose the objective to make up for th OP undercosted units (if so then maybe the power level isnt so bad)
      Take a look at my painted army so far. Feel free to share a pic of yours!

      Pics of my ever expanding warriors army

      WastelandWarrior Painting League 2018

      WastelandWarrior Painting League 2019

      The post was edited 1 time, last by WastelandWarrior ().

    • WastelandWarrior wrote:

      some very interesting ideas in here and some cool units, respect for the work put in. I fear a good number of the entries are wildly undercosted however (the first purger and colossal rider are super powerful if compared to a monster of equivalent points from any other book)

      Also I cant see any scoring units at all? is this a feature or an oversight? do you just autolose the objective to make up for th OP undercosted units (if so then maybe the power level isnt so bad)
      About points, this is the most problematic theme, all units have a lower cost cause they have no way to dispel anything, so, in my test, they usually are in troubles with that point (all enemy unit can feed themselves practically at their whim). That's why I need more test to adjust points.

      About Scorings, Score units have in thir profile a flag as a symbol of scoring.