Getting Hate out of the System: Food for Thought for Those Embittered at Games Workshop

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    • Manxol wrote:

      I'm pretty sure part of the succes of AOS comes from 9th. Start collecting sets are a bargain, and in their report all goes to AOS credit, but if you check GW website you can see than some out of stock entries are the ones good for 9th.

      I won't say how many % there is, but i'm pretty sure it is something considerable.
      I agree with this.
      Also, why is FW bringing long dead models back. Like these two? I think they know people are still playing. Be it Reforged, or T9A or 7th, who cares? But there's still business.



    • GW fooled me twice,
      even if this is one time too much I make sure not being an idoit and getting fooled a third time.

      First the screw up Epic just the moment I had a big, nice and painted Eldar army.
      After that I took a break, but could not resist to start anew -
      and got fooled again with the Endtimes and AoS.

      It is not like an old love - more like a good friend you have lost and you know the "good old times" are gone...

      P.S. I am quite sure cutting Warhammer Fantasy is the start of the end. They are a company with one old cash cow and one question mark (speaking in terms of boston constulting group) - that is far too few to have a solid basis for the long run. And the market has changed with games like X-Wing (90 min, fully painted and you need to have 3 to 8 models to start).
      If you do not like 9th Age - fine, it is your right to do so. But do not spoil our fun - go and find your game, be it AoS, 5th Edition, Magic or Dublo

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Uthegen ().

    • Uthegen wrote:

      And the marked has changed with games like X-Wing (90 min, fully painted and you need to have 3 to 8 models to start).
      There is also very ugly Pay-to-Win strategy by FFG, with each 'wave' (weve no 12 I believe now?) invalidating part of your collection. Generally it is a disguised collectors card game of the worst sort. And its success is based on drawing into game new people, fans of Star Wars who never played wargames before. Market has not changed that much... it has expanded.
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    • Market has not changed that much... it has expanded.
      You are right to some point.

      But X-Wing shows also that you can get a fully painted and ready to play mini for nearly the same cost of an unpainted and unassembled Terminator (or similiar mini) - and you need only a handful for a entertaining game. In addition classic board games come now with a bunch of decent minis for also a good price.
      If you do not like 9th Age - fine, it is your right to do so. But do not spoil our fun - go and find your game, be it AoS, 5th Edition, Magic or Dublo
    • JimMorr wrote:

      Uthegen wrote:

      And the marked has changed with games like X-Wing (90 min, fully painted and you need to have 3 to 8 models to start).
      There is also very ugly Pay-to-Win strategy by FFG, with each 'wave' (weve no 12 I believe now?) invalidating part of your collection. Generally it is a disguised collectors card game of the worst sort. And its success is based on drawing into game new people, fans of Star Wars who never played wargames before. Market has not changed that much... it has expanded.
      To play X-Wing competitively, you might need to invest some money from time to time. However, we are talking about maybe 30 bucks every few months if I remember correctly. I probably spend more money on paint for T9A to be honest.

      If you are not playing competitively, there is no reason to buy the newest cards every time the come out. FFG also tells you exactly what each pack contains, so it is not like they are milking players with random booster packs or something like that.

      X-Wing is certainly not a perfect game, but I think FFG's strategy is much more convincing than what GW tried with AoS.
    • Arrahed wrote:

      However, we are talking about maybe 30 bucks every few months
      Or hundreds. Like purchasing Empire Raider for $100 just to get two set of cards boosting Tie Advanced which has been published earlier. Which dominated meta for 3 months... note that as competitive player you will never use the Raider model itself...
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    • There is a whole industry of tournaments, it is very competitive game really. Official tournaments will offer players participating 'promotion cards' - free version of sought after cards. I have no idea how you get a FFG licence to run official tournament but there are a lot of such cards on the second hand market. A lot of smaller events are organized by shops, to run a tournament you need much less time, much less space and 'pro' players will often bring their own gaming mats. It is very clever business model I have to admit.

      edit: and of course neither shops nor official tournaments will allow any proxies...
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    • GW is just another miniature maker now.

      And with 9th Age I don't miss them and their poor customer service.

      - Refusing (and being proud of it) to listen to what customers want?
      - Extremely poor quality FAQs (with years between) leaving people to houserule all sorts of vague rules

      Good riddance

      Their models are of the highest quality, but:
      - Very few are suitable for 9th
      - Some prizes are truly ridiculous
      - And many many sculpts are overly complicated/busy

      So despite having no grudges against GW I haven't been able to justify spending a penny on their products
    • Toomuchmodels wrote:

      this whole project seems to be driven by the GW hate sometimes....
      Νοt at all. I know how many players feel, but the 9th age staff has no hate or negative attitue towards any company in general, regardless if they agree or not with their practices.
      There's no encouragement towards NOT playing a game by this or another company, neither to buy certain models.

      Someone from the management could explain better of course, but to the point it concerns the people I work with, the above statement is far from true ;)

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    • Toomuchmodels wrote:

      this whole project seems to be driven by the GW hate sometimes....
      I can tell you that I have not seen this with the upper or middle management. In fact, the only time I hear about "GW hate" is in the open forums in the General Discussions section. In fact, aren't the GW models all listed in the miniatures wiki on the site here?
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    • Aenarion43 wrote:

      The only thing that bothers me about GW is that when some dumb jerkwad said "let's blow up Warhammer Fantasy and make it a skirmish game with a totally new setting the year before a major video game would give it bucketloads of free publicity", everyone there said "YAAAAS, OMG, We're gonna be rich!!"

      The stupid was STRONG with that decision. I really DO with that they'd retcon End Times, and have AoS as an alternate reality and Fantasy back online. If 40k is any indication, they'd probably make it fairly awesome. :)

      From what I understand that was the Kirby business attitude at work in that case. Formerly, they had a disinterested/apathetic attitude to video games. They'd freely sell you the license, provided you had the cash, if you wanted it... But they would not seek out to create video games or plan around them. In their own words, they considered video games to be 'incidental'.
      Apparently, TW bought the license to make TW:WH a few years prior, possibly before GW even had the AoS idea. So TW:WH was in the pipeline for a few years now.
      Granted, that's what I've HEARD. So take all that with a grain of salt...

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    • Don't know when the TW GW talks started. AoS planning started 2010ish. TW:WH got agreed in 2012 if I recall correctly. So yeah it gives an impressions they were fully aware what they were doing.

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    • JimMorr wrote:

      Arrahed wrote:

      However, we are talking about maybe 30 bucks every few months
      Or hundreds. Like purchasing Empire Raider for $100 just to get two set of cards boosting Tie Advanced which has been published earlier. Which dominated meta for 3 months... note that as competitive player you will never use the Raider model itself...
      x wing is totally pay to win. I bought the starter box and a few ships and now I can't sell them because they are irrelevant due to power creep. They offer no value to me because I can't really use them and I didn't get enjoyment painting them because hey are pre-painted.
    • Maybe it is different for me because I never had any intention of playing the game at a tournament.
      I simply bought the starter set and a few ships that I thought were cool and then played dozens of games with the models I had. I had tons of fun. I really like the item/slot based equipment system. At least for me it created huge variety with a small number of game pieces and little money invested. That one time I wanted to try a card I did not own, I simply wrote it on a piece of paper and used it anyways. I never bought an expansion pack because of a card it contained, only because I liked the model.

      And if I wanted to re-paint the models, I could do so. No one is stopping me.
    • Arrahed wrote:

      Maybe it is different for me because I never had any intention of playing the game at a tournament.
      I simply bought the starter set and a few ships that I thought were cool and then played dozens of games with the models I had. I had tons of fun. I really like the item/slot based equipment system. At least for me it created huge variety with a small number of game pieces and little money invested. That one time I wanted to try a card I did not own, I simply wrote it on a piece of paper and used it anyways. I never bought an expansion pack because of a card it contained, only because I liked the model.

      And if I wanted to re-paint the models, I could do so. No one is stopping me.
      yes but most players at the local store will play waac and stomp you. And plus you wouldn't be allowed to attend any tournaments with pieces of paper, you need to spend monay on ships you will never use just to get the cards required to compete.
    • Morgan_Treeman wrote:

      Arrahed wrote:

      Maybe it is different for me because I never had any intention of playing the game at a tournament.
      I simply bought the starter set and a few ships that I thought were cool and then played dozens of games with the models I had. I had tons of fun. I really like the item/slot based equipment system. At least for me it created huge variety with a small number of game pieces and little money invested. That one time I wanted to try a card I did not own, I simply wrote it on a piece of paper and used it anyways. I never bought an expansion pack because of a card it contained, only because I liked the model.

      And if I wanted to re-paint the models, I could do so. No one is stopping me.
      yes but most players at the local store will play waac and stomp you. And plus you wouldn't be allowed to attend any tournaments with pieces of paper, you need to spend monay on ships you will never use just to get the cards required to compete.
      True, FFG's business model does not work equally well for every kind of player. For me personally, it worked great: tons of fun for little money.
      I suppose I never looked at it through the eyes of someone who is interested in official tournaments.

      I guess GW tried something similar with AoS, but the rule system was just too poorly thought out for my taste. Also, their redesigned setting had zero appeal to me.