Pinned ID General Chat

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    • New

      Infernal greetings to all!

      This year I am determined to try to finish an army and I have thought that ID will be the best because I imagine that in autumn the FAB will be published (perhaps in beta) How I still can not go to my table to work I have thought to start with the bases of movement but I do not have very clear how to make them, so I come before you, lords and prophets, to share with me their infernal wisdom. What kind of movement bases are used for each type of unity? How do Flintlock or BB units usually go? Do immortals have a front of 5 or do they play bigger? With the vassals hobgoblins are played in fat of 8 or more in bus mode? And the disciples? I know this could change in the future but it's not bad to have variety of movement bases, you never know...

      Thank you very much!
    • New

      xaby86 wrote:

      Infernal greetings to all!

      This year I am determined to try to finish an army and I have thought that ID will be the best because I imagine that in autumn the FAB will be published (perhaps in beta) How I still can not go to my table to work I have thought to start with the bases of movement but I do not have very clear how to make them, so I come before you, lords and prophets, to share with me their infernal wisdom. What kind of movement bases are used for each type of unity? How do Flintlock or BB units usually go? Do immortals have a front of 5 or do they play bigger? With the vassals hobgoblins are played in fat of 8 or more in bus mode? And the disciples? I know this could change in the future but it's not bad to have variety of movement bases, you never know...

      Thank you very much!
      This might not ultimately be very helpful, but I am currently writing an article for the next issue of the t9a scroll where I talk about unit formations.
      It is general rather than ID specific, but it should still contain some useful things.
      I'm not sure exactly what the time is on this, but I guess it will be out sometime in August maybe, if you can wait that long.

      That said, my specific advice here would be:
      Make a variety of trays. 20mm infantry you need trays that are 5,6,7,8 wide and ~4-6 deep.
      I would look at 8x4, 7x4, 6x4, 5x6, then maybe a few narrower ones like 5x2, 6x2, 7x2 and 8x3.
      This should cover most of your infantry needs (dwarfs and hobgoblins) as well as some kadim units.
      People want t9a/RT to simultaneously square, triangle, and icosagon the circle, whilst vehemently attacking it if there are any corners.

      ID blog
      Dan ventures into the lands of smoke and fire

      Basic beginners tactics
      No 'tactics for beginners' thread?
    • New

      Dan knows how to milk a little extra performance out through precise formation choices. He's quite correct that - if you have the spare brainpower - you can get an edge by thinking twice about unit width every time you deploy them.

      This is also a lot of mental bandwidth and a lot of base-making. Knowing when to break rules of thumb is great, but having rules of thumb to begin with is pretty helpful too.


      How do Flintlock or BB units usually go? Do immortals have a front of 5 or do they play bigger? With the vassals hobgoblins are played in fat of 8 or more in bus mode? And the disciples? I know this could change in the future but it's not bad to have variety of movement bases, you never know...

      So, some rules of thumb:

      - Flintlocks and BBs should usually be optimal firing formations; for Flintlocks, that means 2 deep (size varies), for BBs that generally means 4-5 deep and as big a unit as you feel like paying for. Don't forget to consider reform BBs thinner if they're getting shot at (28+ 7 deep is good there)

      -Immortals often get played more as a bunker, where 5 wide helps keep them alive.

      - Hobgoblins are usually small bow-blobs that switch between ranked and firing as needed. Hobgoblin Phalanxes (spear units) are going for melee killing power so might work going line.

      - Lugars do good damage per model and thus should probably aim to be wider than the enemy they're going up against.

      Background Team

    • New

      WhammeWhamme wrote:

      Dan knows how to milk a little extra performance out through precise formation choices. He's quite correct that - if you have the spare brainpower - you can get an edge by thinking twice about unit width every time you deploy them.

      This is also a lot of mental bandwidth and a lot of base-making. Knowing when to break rules of thumb is great, but having rules of thumb to begin with is pretty helpful too.
      Hahah... I kinda have both things in the article I'm writing.
      Maybe more of the former though, but that is because I'm trying to help people transition from the latter to the former.
      #foreshadowing #spoiler

      Yes, sorry, I did indeed give a list of trays and didn't actually link them back to the units... oooops :P
      @xaby86
      Blunderbusses: 7x4 or 8x4. 5x4 or 6x4 if running smaller units, but bigger units are the most fun :D
      Flintlocks: 5x2 (or 10x2 if you are cool like me and play a big unit ;) ). Generally no deeper than 2 in order to not waste any shots, so e.g. 15 likely to be 8x2.
      Immortals: 7x3. But this is the unit that is likely to change formation the most based on battlefield context.
      Disciples: 8x3.
      Warriors with shields or non-flintlock citadel guard: 5 wide and 4-6 deep depending on how many models in the unit
      Kadims: 3x2 (40mm) i.e. 6x4 in terms of 20mm infantry.
      Hobgoblin bows: 8 wide to shoot, so typically 8x3. 5 wide for everything else. so 4-7 deep.
      Backstabbers: another unit that is likely to change a lot based on context. 8x4, 7x4,6x5,5x6 are all likely here.
      Warrior great weapon bricks: 7 or 8 wide, probably 4 or 5 deep.


      As a side note, depending on how tight you like your trays to be, 8x5 20mm trays can be oriented in either direction depending on whether you want your unit deep or wide.
      This works well for units of 3+ dwarfs and goblins.

      Note that 6 wide infantry units are actually quite a rare case, 7 or 5 is nearly always better. So don't worry too much about 120mm width trays (except or kadim :) )
      People want t9a/RT to simultaneously square, triangle, and icosagon the circle, whilst vehemently attacking it if there are any corners.

      ID blog
      Dan ventures into the lands of smoke and fire

      Basic beginners tactics
      No 'tactics for beginners' thread?
    • New

      If anyone cares, I've inputted the 11 ID lists at the ETC into a spreadsheet that tracks total number of units per army and points spent on that unit per army.

      docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d…ItoRZVq4/edit?usp=sharing

      Triple Flintlock core is back at the height of fashion (an average of two units per list), although Backstabbers make their first appearance in any of the tournaments I've done this for (thanks DanT - you inspired someone to copy your list :) ).

      Not sure if there's a more useful place, but I just blew an hour or two (more? who knows) on it, so I figure I might as well share. :)

      Background Team

    • New

      WhammeWhamme wrote:

      If anyone cares, I've inputted the 11 ID lists at the ETC into a spreadsheet that tracks total number of units per army and points spent on that unit per army.

      docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d…ItoRZVq4/edit?usp=sharing

      Triple Flintlock core is back at the height of fashion (an average of two units per list), although Backstabbers make their first appearance in any of the tournaments I've done this for (thanks DanT - you inspired someone to copy your list :) ).

      Not sure if there's a more useful place, but I just blew an hour or two (more? who knows) on it, so I figure I might as well share. :)
      Hey WhammeWhamme - Great job - very interesting and insightful ! Yet, as far as I am concerned, I noticed some clerical errors in the second tab (i.e. I do not use hobgob with bows - Some points have been mixed too - value for kadims attributed to taurukhs, ...).

      Sad to see that no one brought slaves - I've hesitated till the end - but with Titan and Incarnates, that represents too many thing to babysitt...
    • New

      Oops. Second tab is messed up because I added in Backstabbers (and other stuff) without remembering it was there (I was re-using a template I made last year).

      Lemme just quickly fix that... :)

      Edit: Second tab is also meaningless - I used it for WTC because I had individual scores and so it could rank things, but for this it's not important. :)

      But it's been future-proofed somewhat now. :)

      Background Team

      The post was edited 1 time, last by WhammeWhamme ().

    • New

      WhammeWhamme wrote:

      Triple Flintlock core is back at the height of fashion (an average of two units per list)
      I quickly looked at this. Interesting note that 4 lists have 3 units of FlintlockGuard and no other core. The rest mix in a nice representation of the other core units. (except slaves, goes to show the Guidelines is on the right track to change their role).

      Lots of Flintlocks with some other cores looks very Iconic to me.