Pinned 2.0 BH Beta Discussion Thread

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is here! You can read all about it in the news.

Our beta phase is finally over. Download The Ninth Age: Fantasy Battles, 2nd Edition now!

  • 1) Decrease longhorns individual price significatively, not base unit cost.
    2) Decrease Cyclops price more.
    3) decrease throwing weapons cost for wild horns (can be compensate by a 2HW OR throwing weapons choice , not both)

    All others are more rule problem, difficult to solve it via cost modulation

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Mirdhynn ().

  • Good stuff so far,

    I'd also like Cyclops to come down, but as one of their only players I think it's naughty for me to ask for them to reduce.

    I'll keep a track of comments here, in person and on DM's and channel to the team.
    For more from me : @Enchantedbytim on twitter.

    Hemel Hempstead/Milton Keynes, UK

    ETC 2020 - Scotland XX Player
    ETC 2019 - Scotland BH Player
    ETC 2018 - Scotland VC Player
    ETC 2017 - Scotland OK Player
  • I think cost of the additional long horn model is too high to play them competitively.

    Cost of throwing weapon for Wildhorn is also an important one but not as necessarily on the same scale as the buff Long Horn needs.

    I think of it this way. Maybe, just a maybe, everyone is taking Minotaur bus because there is no alternative (Cause Long Horn is just too expensive to run in blocks for what they do).
  • Eye of dominance is the one big ticket for me. Demon conflicts aside, it's a good tool for stopping big flying monsters. Take it away (and at 50pts, it will effectively never be taken now as in most games, it has no use) and we're stuck with relying on unreliable things like lance centaurs plus a black wing totem.

    Other small items:
    - Paired weapons on gors should be 1pt. I will likely try taking a big block of them if this is switched.
    - Shields on minos should have been rasised to 8pts, not 10. And/or totem kept at 15. Something to give them a little nudge.
  • Mongrels with spear and banner still overshadow other units in core when taken larger than minsize.

    PW for Wildhorns 1pt per model

    Mongrels 6pts per additional model, spears 2 pt per model

    Banner of the Wild Herd 40pts, maybe only 35 pts

    So, unit of mongrels with spears and banner stays at same cost, but banner becomes more attractive for all others.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by teclis2000 ().

  • Ironrock wrote:

    Good stuff so far,

    I'd also like Cyclops to come down, but as one of their only players I think it's naughty for me to ask for them to reduce.

    I'll keep a track of comments here, in person and on DM's and channel to the team.
    Is the assumption that the close of the Beta will only have small nudges to points?

    For example, longhorns in big blocks, jabber, hereditary spell etc. are all still terrible but that is likely outside the scope of discussion?
  • Cyclops, Gortach, Giant and Jabber are all 10pts to expensive for my taste, Jabber even 15 (the Jabber is imho missing 1 more attack or 1 more AP if its price stays).

    I will try lists without monsters if they stay at this price. Gortach is good when reaching right combat, ofc, but too vulnerable against so many things...

    The post was edited 6 times, last by teclis2000 ().

  • @Ironrock

    Tough.

    But it is a call between the Wildhorns and the Longhorns.... hmmmm


    Case for Longhorns:

    - Their upgrade is backwards. Halberd is the better pick. Would make sense to come with GWs as basic equipment. Even if this would make them even cheaper.

    - Their bulk cost is absolute bonkers. Its an 8 ppm discrepancy between start cost and bulk cost now.

    - Their Bodyguard rule could include General.

    Case for Wildhorns:

    - Their Ambush cost is undercosted. This results in their equipment costs being quite unfairly costed. PW should be a free swap and throwing weapons should be included.

    - Their base number should probably be increased to 20 like Orcs (20 of these cost 160 now btw - compare with the 150 of 15 Wildhorns). It seems the Primal Instinct is a fair bit overcosted on this S3 ap0 chassis with no powerincreasing equipments. Sure its nice to hit - but +1S/+1 ap is also nice. Sure the Wildhorns can get an increase in power from magic - but Orcs can also get unconditional rerolls to hit.

    Ehh.. imma stop the tail-chasing army compare there. I get that OnG needs a CC boon in the face of the supreme ranged power of BH Cyclops :)

    I... think...

    I think I have to go with Wildhorns. Increase their ambush cost by 20 (?) - bump them to 20 models for 170 pts - free swap for paired weapons - throwing weapons included in base cost.

    Skàll
    Hermund Vigerust Endressòn Furu - Savage Sage of the Norse
    Faux-pro player and ETC vagabond.
    Enjoys the company of deluded nerds and women of unquestionably low morale.

    Do not fall to the folly of the best laid of plans - for the mind of man is fickle in the face of the dice gods.
    Give yer high fives where yer opponents dice have been blessed, and in equal give yer handshakes when dice fall in malicious ways.
  • Several magic items are rarely seen. This might be different if characters were played more often on foot. But some things should be cheaper.

    Wild form 25 pts (then I would think a oubout giving this to a shaman)
    Inscribing Burin 20 pts, maybe even 15 pts

    Eye of Dominance is too expensive at 50 pts. Change it to distracting or "never be hit better than 5+" against affected targets. Reduce price to 20 pts.


    ... Sorry for spamming the thread, but I hope some of my suggestions are useful (so people can like the good ones and trash the bad ones). ;)
    Btw, I had a close look on the data.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by teclis2000 ().

  • So many things need to be redone that using +/- 1 point tehnique it should take about several years before we come to the maybe solid solutions.

    Regarding items...
    Eye of Dominance is a joke for 50 points.
    Hawthorne Curse - too expensive.
    I would say even Dark Rain and Pillager Icon are too expensive.
    Base cost of Beast Axe for Beastlord - too expensive. That specific one magical weapon costs 70 points!! It's like you don't give away the iniciative value of 5.

    Longhorns - who thought that lowering base cost would make them more popular, moreso to be taken in big units?
    Wildhorns compared to Orcs are a real eye opener.
    I would take Goblin chariots instead of our any time.
    I would take the untakable Abomination instead of our monsters any time.

    People say - Totems on units are not good enough, they shouldn't be on champions. Even though Longhorns themselves are rarely taken, you even increase the cost of the Totem for them?! Well yeah, that should make them more popular.
    War Banner of Ryma - is that undercosted or is the Banner of Wild Herd overcosted - decide for yourselves but the job is done poorely.

    Well, I guess we will have to wait till next update for the banner to come back to 50 points...
    :BH: :DL:

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Hruggek ().

  • Finally, now I don't complain alone
    Troubled units need a revision of rules in the LAB and a lowered 1p rebate does not fix anything, only annoys beast players
    the wildhorns need something that justifies taking them in large units, and as Herminard says repeating to impact it is fine but with s3 they don't go anywhere, they not ambuhs units need s4 or other weapon options.

    the wild banner should be cheaper for what it does, not more expensive

    if only points are to be played, they would have to be able to compete with the benefits of spears, so that they should be worth the same as ungors with spears, giving them the basic pw
    the ambush for them should be more expensive since it is now auto for them, but they should be able to ambush drunk or itp

    The longhorns as they should be cost as a great imperial sword, should have 5 and 2 attacks to be worth what they are worth, and have some magic banner , or give a permanent tótem, if they do not touch would have to lower minimum 2-3p the additional model

    the pigs herds need rerroll to hit or lower the additional model by 10p, I can see uploading the models alone, even uploading them 10 instead of 5

    the cyclops should have some rule that would improve it to impact with its stone or give it an instinct, or if not lower it 30p no 5

    jabber, hereditary and unused objects are not fixed with points and need to be redone,unless they get too low

    The post was edited 1 time, last by clorens ().

  • clorens wrote:

    Finally, now I don't complain alone
    Troubled units need a revision of rules in the LAB and a lowered 1p rebate does not fix anything, only annoys beast players
    the wildhorns need something that justifies taking them in large units, and as Herminard says repeating to impact it is fine but with s3 they don't go anywhere, they not ambuhs units need s4 or other weapon options.

    the wild banner should be cheaper for what it does, not more expensive

    if only points are to be played, they would have to be able to compete with the benefits of spears, so that they should be worth the same as ungors with spears, giving them the basic pw
    the ambush for them should be more expensive since it is now auto for them, but they should be able to ambush drunk or itp

    The longhorns as they should be cost as a great imperial sword, should have 5 and 2 attacks to be worth what they are worth, and have some magic banner , or give a permanent tótem, if they do not touch would have to lower minimum 2-3p the additional model

    the pigs herds need rerroll to hit or lower the additional model by 10p, I can see uploading the models alone, even uploading them 10 instead of 5

    the cyclops should have some rule that would improve it to impact with its stone or give it an instinct, or if not lower it 30p no 5

    jabber, hereditary and unused objects are not fixed with points and need to be redone,unless they get too low
    LoL. For ACS purposes, we have to stick with just point issues and not design issues. Although they can be used to clarify reasons for points.
    B. "MF’ing" Jones - Member of the CGL .

    DL/ADT - TT

    Campaign Design-Broken Isles

    Freelance Design

    PT Team-Mid Atlantic USA

    CGL 2018 Worst Player Winner

    CGL 2019 3rd Place

  • clorens wrote:

    the wild banner should be cheaper for what it does, not more expensive
    I really don't get it what makes the other armies tremble in fear and terror to make this item, that can be used on 2 and only 2 units so horrific that it needs to go up in price. Pumping strenght from 3 to 4, once!!

    clorens wrote:

    The longhorns as they should be cost as a great imperial sword, should have 5 and 2 attacks to be worth what they are worth, and have some magic banner , or give a permanent tótem, if they do not touch would have to lower minimum 2-3p the additional model
    Same problems, discussions, different times.
    35% point increase for extra models is lunacy. For unit that has big footprint, needs to be in big blocks to sustain the damage because of only As 5+ to have real impact in the game. If they become Bodyguard (General, Beast Lord, Beast Chieftain) it would make them more popular.
    If they had Weapon Master (halberd, beast axe and great weapon) it would make them more popular.
    If they had (and we know they won't) the upgrade of a totem, but permanently - it would make them more popular. Even the bunker unit for the wizard, with Cloud Eye Totem upgrade would be interesting option.

    clorens wrote:

    the pigs herds need rerroll to hit or lower the additional model by 10p, I can see uploading the models alone, even uploading them 10 instead of 5
    Come on... The pigs as they are a great unit. 43% point decrease from single to extra pigs is HUGE! They have their problems, like psychology, but that's where the Hereditary spell should come in help. 4 attacks each, ok Off, extra bonus for charge... I wish I had more Mierce Miniatures pigs to try with that kind of unit... And also, the overcosted Pillager Icon is here to give that specific unit a significant boost.

    clorens wrote:

    the cyclops should have some rule that would improve it to impact with its stone or give it an instinct, or if not lower it 30p no 5
    The problem with Cyclops is what was always his problem - that unit is packed with special rules that hold him down price wise.
    MR(3)? Drop it by one point and reduce its cost. Str. 6? Drop it to 5 and reduce its cost. Remove missfire ('1' simply wiffs). Make it similar but again different than Giant.

    clorens wrote:

    jabber, hereditary and unused objects are not fixed with points and need to be redone,unless they get too low
    If the Hereditary would be with range 5+(24")/8+(48") and 5 it would be interesting choice. I would even consider buying the Magical Heirloom to include it.

    Jabber... I don't know what to do with that one...
    The monster itself, it is more like the Manticore with extra wound for 140 points more. Wyverns are also in the more or less same neighborhood of points. Flying Chimera is 90 points less points for one HP less.
    :BH: :DL:

    Post by Darkwise ().

    This post was deleted by Stunt: nonconstructive ().