Sylvan Elves 2.0 Beta Playtest Feedback (No Discussion Please!)

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  • Sylvan Elves 2.0 Beta Playtest Feedback (No Discussion Please!)

    Hello keen eyed elves!

    Please use this thread for direct 2.0 Beta Playtest feedback.

    Ideally, feedback should be provided in a concise format based directly off play experience with Sylvan Elves in the 2.0 Beta.

    Please do not discuss the feedback here, as it is intended as a concise reference. Further discussion may be deleted or moved with out warning.

    You may discuss the 2.0 Beta and SE in it in the main 2.0 Beta thread as you wish.

    Thank you.

    Data Analysis

  • Played 5000 pts against the honourable Mr. @Ney and his Ogres

    My list:

    Dryad Adept - (Summer Growth, Healing Waters), General
    17 Dryads - Champion

    Shapeshifter Prince - Spear of Titanic Might, LA of Basalt, Elven Cloak, Shield of Willow's Ward, Hail Shot

    Druid Adept- Eagle King, Potion of Strength, (Awaken the Beast, Swarm of Insects)

    Bladedancer BsB - Sylvans Blades, Hero's Heart

    11 Bladedancers - Standard, Champion, Predator Pennant

    14 SA - Musician

    18 SA, Musician

    4 Kestrels - Champion, Standard, Banner of Silent Mists

    10 Sentinels - Scout, Sylvan blades

    6 Pathfinders

    15 Forest Guards - Musician, Sylvan Blades

    24 Rangers - FCG, Vanguard, Banner of Deception


    I figured the Bladedancers could anchor my line from within a wood, and the banner would give them options for leaving their sanctuary. The Forest Rangers could redeploy to whatever flank was weakest, while Kestrels would go straight shooting stuff. The Shapeshifter could go troll chariot, monsters or shooting units all depending.

    His list was: Shaman General (4 Shamanism spells, Veil token generating weapon, Crown of Autocracy), BsB (MW great weapon, Deathcheater armour), 2x10 Tribesmen with FCG and Paired Weapons, 2x2 Yhetees, Auroch, Mammoth, 2x3 Tuskers, Kineater, 4 Bombardiers

    We played "Gold rush" or whatever that scenario got renamed to.

    After Vanguards and redeployment of Forest Rangers:




    Turn 1:

    The Ogres advanced cautiously the leftmost Tuskers screening the Bombardiers from the Kestrels. A Swarm of Insects took 3 wounds from the Druid while Chilling Howl bound spell weakened both SA units, and a very lucky crossbow shot nicked a wound from the Shapeshifter.

    The Shapeshifter moved to take the charge of the Tuskers with Rangers moving up in support (redeployed from original position opposite other Tuskers). Shapeshifter used his Hail Shot and killed one Yhetee, while the combined effort of a Swarm of Insects the SA and Sentinels took 5 wounds off the Auroch. Pathfinders wounded a Tusker.

    Turn 2:

    Tuskers charged the Shapeshifter who laughed off the impacts, and killed 2 Tuskers, but was then killed by the last Tusker as Stomp and normal attacks did their thing (the earlier wound proved a dealbreaker sadly). The Yhetee and Tribesmen charged the Rangers. I had overestimated the Rangers somewhat and combined with the Mammoth aura (causing me to strike last) and poor saw the Rangers beaten and run down... Auroch charged at the Bladedancers, but killed itself going through the forest. The second unit Yhetees charged the Forest Guards drawing combat

    Dryads flankcharged the Yhetee, killed him and overran into the flank of the Tribesmen who had pursued the Rangers. The SA (despite short range) performed awfully only killing one measly Tribesman. The Sentinels were little better blowing their rerolled march test leaving them sitting ducks for the Tuskers, but at least they (helped by a Swarm of Insects) killed the newly arrived Kineater. Pathfinders did 1 wound on the lone Tusker and Druid was healed for 2 wounds as the D. Ancient cast healing waters on the front archers (who I thought would be charged by Tribesmen block). Forest Guards finished off the last Yhetee, while the Kestrels scoffing the bullets of the Bombardiesr charged and ran them down (for the loss of one Kestrel).



    Turn 3:
    Tuskers charged and slaughtered the exposed Sentinels while the Tribesmen charged the Bladedancers in the wood. I rolled less than well and lost 6 Bladedancers including the champion for 2 Tribesmen, but stuck in combat. The lone Tusker charged Pathfinders, but was slain by their Stand and shoot. Dryads beat the other Tribesman unit which fled the field. Mammoth failed to charge Sylvan Archers.

    Dryads charged the flank of the Mammoth. Seemed like a good idea, but due to impassable terrain it turned out I could only get in a few Dryads, so spent rest of the game slowly getting taken apart and at last destroyed by the Mammoth. Druid flew over to redirect the Tuskers casting +1 STR on the Bladedancers. SA and Pathfinders tried and failed to hurt Tuskers at all..



    Turn 4:

    Tuskers charged Druid, who ofc fumbled her Potion of Strength (2+ to hit made that a sure thing ofc), and killed her. Ogres killed 4 Bladedancers in return for 3 Ogres (BsB wounded each other in challenge), but they passed their test despite the forest.

    Kestrels slammed into the flank of the ongoing combat and killed a Tribesmen, while the Bladedancer BsB killed his counterpart for the loss of the last Bladedancer. The Shaman and Tribesmen broke and were run down. My big unit archers seeing the Ogres turn after the Forest Guards (who were after an objective) charged the Tusker flank and did two wounds killing a Tusker... the Tusker able to strike went animalistic and killed 7 Archers (who however held). My other archer unit had to turn about and shoot a newly summoned Totemic summon, but pitifully only managed one wound

    Turn 5:
    Tusker murdered all but a few archers who fled allowing the Tuskers to overrun into my other archer unit annilating it on the charge!

    My Forest Guards took an objective while my BsB too to the central wood to await the Tuskers final charged. My Pathfinders finished off the earlier Totemic Beast summon

    Turn 6:

    The Tuskers unscathed charged through 2 woods to get at the BsB, but HIM they could not hurt and in reply he killed them both (the Kestrels didn't even get to strike). Forest Guards grabbed objective and Pathfinders couldn't harm the Mammoth



    And that was it:

    SE had 3 Kestrels, Bladedancer Bsb, 11 Forest Guards and the Pathfinders left while OK had the Mammoth.

    16-8 to SE!

    Thoughts:

    - Pathfinders are a LOT better, but as the game showed they got nothing on long range and getting into short range involved taking some risks with them.

    - My Shapeshifter build was not competitive and perhaps I shouldn't have stood before the charging Tuskers despite STR7 spear and Willow's Ward, but was really curious how it would turn out. Sadly my conclusions so far is that as far as combat characters go SE have Bladedancers, Hunter's Honour and kamikaze style characters... and little else

    - I hadn't expected anyone to charge the Bladedancers in a wood, and being a full turn in reinforcing them almost cost me the game. It also meant I didn't get to test Predator Pennant. I felt this item was only viable on a unit noone would charge inside a forest, so might be worth it on Bladedancers, so need to try again I guess. Still an unimpressive item

    - Kestrels with Blade of Silent Mists are a must-have. Perfect for zerging down shooting units and getting behind the enemy army

    - Heros Heart is stupidly OP, and a no-brainer on a Bladedancer character. He was a beast, and the item in question needs a nerf

    - My Sylvan Archers sucked &%&& (even though Chilling Howl made their day miserable for 2-3 turns). The Tuskers stomping them flat was good as their made better manure than archers. Mumble... luck.. mumble

    - Druid on Eagle is a good thing, but never take an item requiring you to roll 2+ to hit (turns out I cheated with it, as you roll last with Crush Attacks, but no harm done)

    - Sentinels worked great, killing the Kineater and putting 3 wounds on the Aurochs. If only I could pass their march test....

    - Magic worked great, but I think I'll save Druidism for when I field Treefathers. The actual spells are good, but short-ranged and situational. I'll rolle 2 x Adepts with Shamanism/Cosmo next time

    - Hail Shot is pretty poor now that 2+ Aim is near impossible. Pending a sizeable price reduction or Aim revision I won't use it again. Maaaybe on a Treefather Ancient to point out the horror.

    - Banner of Deception is okay, but a bit hit-or-miss and even though I surprised my opponent I'm unsure if I gained much...mmmm

    Overall a great game

    Bear over me for my many mistakes

    - Shapeshifter dying
    - Forest Rangers getting beaten
    - Dryads charging Mammoth

    It sounded good on paper and uhmm I was testing stuff you know.. right

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Wesser ().

  • Arkalak wrote:

    their is few mistakes in your Liste and the way you played... Thanks for the report, but.

    You have 2 magical armour on the shapeshifter.
    You choose spells nbr 1 and 4 with your driad... but an adept cannot combin spells 1 and 4... unfortunately.

    W-e have to play many times to learn these new amasing rules.
    I did wrong on Dryad spells yes. Its a weird restriction... But Im pretty sure you are now allowed to enchant more than one piece of armour. Shield and Suit of Armour separately
  • You are right on the armor enchanting:
    p. 98.
    "Armour Enchantments are upgrades to Armour. The enchanted armour follows all the rules for both the original
    armour and the Armour Enchantment. Each piece of armour a model is carrying may be given a single Armour
    Enchantment. When an Armour Enchantment is taken, if the wearer has more than one piece of armour that could
    be enchanted, which piece it is must be noted in the Army List."

    For matriarchs I would go for summer Growth and magic missile i guess, would be cool to have 1 and 4 though!

    Uhh and good report! Parking a shapie in front of tuskers is a gutsy move!
  • Wesser wrote:

    ...
    Shapeshifter Prince - Spear of Titanic Might, LA of Basalt, Elven Cloak, Shield of Willow's Ward, Hail Shot

    ...

    Wesser wrote:

    Arkalak wrote:

    ...
    You have 2 magical armour on the shapeshifter.
    ...
    ... Im pretty sure you are now allowed to enchant more than one piece of armour. Shield and Suit of Armour separately

    zqn365 wrote:

    You are right on the armor enchanting:
    p. 98.
    "Armour Enchantments are upgrades to Armour. The enchanted armour follows all the rules for both the original
    armour and the Armour Enchantment. Each piece of armour a model is carrying may be given a single Armour
    Enchantment. When an Armour Enchantment is taken, if the wearer has more than one piece of armour that could
    be enchanted, which piece it is must be noted in the Army List."

    ...
    correct, one armour enchantment on the light armour and one armour enchantment for shields on the shield is viable.

    Same as you could have a shooting weapon enchantment on the sylvan longbow and one close combat weapon enchantment on a close combat weapon.

    edit: only one weapon enchantment per model though.

    Quick Starter Team

    Playtester


    The post was edited 1 time, last by DJWoodelf ().

  • SE vs. DH warband size.

    3000p

    My list:
    Display Spoiler

    Chieftain(General); Longbow, Lightarmour, Elvencloak, Pathfinderkindred, Lifeseed Feathers. 330p

    Forest Prince; Lightarmour, Sylvan Blades, Sylvan Longbow, Shapeshifter Kindred, Spirit of the Whirlwind, Curse of the Black Stag, Talisman of Shielding, Glyph of Amryl. 510p

    Dryad Ancient; Wizard Adept(Summers Growth/hereditiary spell), Toxic Spores. 270p

    Core 767p:
    Dryads(9); Skirmisher, Champion. 242p

    Heath Riders(8); Full Command, Sylvan Longbows. 270p

    Forest Guard (15); Full Command, Sylvan Blades and Elven Cloak. 255p

    Fleet of Foot 1526p:
    Wild Huntsmen(5); Sylvan Blades, Full Command. 380p

    Wild Huntsmen(5); Sylvan Blades, Musician, Standard Bearer. 360p

    Unseen Arrow:
    Sylvan Sentinels(10); Scout, Sylvan Blades. 375p

    it is illegal as i have about 300p to much in fleet of foot, and the restrictions are really bad and worse in warbands than they are in 4500p lists.

    My opponent's list:
    Display Spoiler

    Core:
    Greybeards(20); Full Command, shield, Throwing Weapons.

    Clan Marksmen(20); Full Command, Shield, Guil Crafted Handguns.

    Special:
    Kingsguard(20); Full Command, Runic Standard of Shielding.

    Engines of war:
    Organ Gun; Rune Crafted.

    Characters:
    King; Shield, Runeof destruktion, Rune of Might x2, Rune of Resistance, Rune of Iron, Shield Bearers.

    Dragon Seeker; Rune of Smashing.



    We rolled up deployment and got counterthrust. He began deploying as i chose deployment zones. After deployment i had bunched up my Sentinels in the middle, with the dryads and the forest guard Close. my wildhunters deployed on the lesft to try and combo charge and take out the kingsguard unit with the king in. or at least make it so i could kill the rest of the unit with one units shooting and try with my general's shooting to kill the king. I deployed my heathriders to the right, he deployed his marksmen opposite them and i tried to vanguard them behind a hill. My shapeshifter would Square up against his dragonseeker, as i hit first with more attacks on the charge and he only had a 6++(or that was the plan).

    1. Turn
    Display Spoiler

    DH won the roll to go first so he did, he shot my heath riders and killed two (7+ to-hit, he hit four or five of them.... he rolled some sweet number of sixes this game -.-'). The organ gun had almost no targets, Everything was either in a forest, har hardtarget, was skirmish or all of the above (had 3 Forests on the field 2 was in my halv of the table), never the less, he shot at my forest guard and killed 3. he had failed two charges and couldn't do much else.
    I fail one of the Wildhunters frenzy test... they charge the king unit and dies, atleast they kill 6 kingsguard. My Shapeshifter charges his dragon seeker, and i Think it is cool, it's easy should be able to do at least 3 wounds, and if he survives, i should be able to survive with one HP atleast thanks to 4++. I shoot and kills his organ gun after my Pathfinder shoots him, hits wounds, my Sentinels shoots and kill him. Heathriders do nothing.
    7 S6 attacks, hits on 3+ wounds on 3+, make four wounds. i mean how many sixes can he roll one? two? nope! all four! he rolls up four sixes. Ok, i can save this, he makes 5 wounds, ok i can make it, might not be able to roll Three 4+ but one or two, even if that kills him... nah! that aint me to day XD, not a single 4+. Shapeshifter died, and now all i have is the wildhunters and Lifeseed Feathers to kill his kings unit.


    2. Turn
    Display Spoiler

    I don't remember what happened here for DH, failed charges and moved up to slaughter me. nothing was shooting as his Clansmen marched and long range and i had softcover for my heathriders he missed Everything.

    I started my turn with failing another frenzy test, it wasn't like a double six but i failed on eight, the first time was on nine. They charged the kings unit and died. Reaping similar casualties as the first unit did. i moved my dryad unit and forestguards so i can take the greybeard charge and then countercharge next turn.
    I pour all my shooting into the seeker, that Child out of marriage will die for what he pulled, Pathfinder shoots hits on 2+, rolls a one. Sentinels hits on 3+ gets 3 poison and one through wound rolls, he rolls 3 sixes... next up are the heathriders, thay all hit! :D but not a single five was seen that day, and the seeker lives with two wounds left.


    3. Turn
    Display Spoiler

    Charge gallore, his greybeards charges my dryads (they had no choise in the matter) his kings unit charges my forestguard in the rear, in a forest, that was my mistake and i can't really understand how i did that :P
    Marksmen move on-top the hill with a march, dragon seeker does bugger all.
    My dryads loose by one and make the test to stand firm.
    Forest guards get decimated and only have 6 left, they flee and no pursuites.
    My turn! Forest guard rallies, and they are at a prime location to charge the marksmen units next turn. I try to dance around the dragonseeker with my heathriders but he won't make the charge on them, actually he never charges with the seeker except for the first turn where he fails even though he had some close range charges, guess he was smarter than me....
    This time i try to shoot the king unit with my Sentinels, kills one model, try again for the dragonseeker with the rest, and manages to pick Another wound of off him.
    I got zero spells off, we had pretty big flux cards, first 8, then 5 and at last 3 i Think. he Always dispelled it. it wouldn't have mattered anyways probably.
    Dryads loose so bad they could only make it with a miracle roll, which i of course don't get.


    4. Turn
    Display Spoiler

    He charges my Sentinels with his greybeards, i flee thinking that i should be able to rally and then shoot at something my turn. He shoots my heathriders and kills them.
    Nothing else happens.

    I dont make the rally roll for my Sentinels and they run of the board. All i have left is to make a charge with my forest guard, which i did and won the combat against his marksmen.
    After Everything he only have one model left in his kingsguard unit and the king so dance between those two and the greaybeards unit. shoot him with a pathetic Arrow that does nothing.

    5. Turn
    He does nothing as all he can do is pivot and do reforms to try and Catch my general.

    I move Close to the dragon sekker(i knew i had lost) and comes face to face with him and shoots one Arrow... i roll a one and i GG out.


    Two things pretty much cost me this game (or 3) the failed frenzy test for the wildhunters, and his godly 6++ saves on the seeker. That thing was his MVP.
    Sadly i had no MVP as i wasn't able to try what i wanted and nothing Went as expected.
    ok maybe the forest guard killing of the markmen unit.

    the forest Walker rule needs something better than reroll 1's to-wound roll doesnt help in the slightest and is weird, it is nice to be stubborn in a forest, but we aint, or are we and my forest guards would have stayed and killed some more dwarfes? anyhow, we need like distracting in forest or something, the enemy gets -2 offensive skill maybe as it is either harder for them to move around with thier weapons in a forest, or easier for us to move around.

    My biggest problem was in the list building, i couldn't take SA in core, as the Sentinels and the general took up exactly to much for a unit to fit in there. FoF is also not doable(as i Went over with about 350p), so either i give up a unit of wildhunters or the heath riders in core. that means i either have a unit of wildhunters which would be shot to Death in turn one had they not charged or my core choise is only two units. the sad thing is, the restrictions make it so that i can't take any chieftain with a mount, look even less FoF Points to use, and if that is the case, well he kinda have to be my win condition in CC then. same thing with BD-kindred. if i take a character that spans more than the character restrictions, then BAM! i have used almost all of that categorys Points, and i probably can't take the respective core unit. this is really a problem in the 3000p games. and if you don't feel that it isn't that big of a problem because it's 3000p and the game is balanced around 4500p then congratulation, it is still bad, but apparently works.

    Cant say much about units except that wildhunters dishout alot of S4 AP2 attacks with sylvan blades. but there is no reason other than fluff in my mind to have the frenzy rule on them, it brings nothing compared to the downside.
    Granted i was really unlucky with the die, but still it will happen and then it fells like stupitidy rule all over again, no reason for it to be there, we get no big extra thing with it that outweighs the negative. if they still have to have frenzy, do as they have suggested in the forum, they get it after first round of combat or after winning a combat, or successfull charge. As the thrill of the hunt puts them in a frenzied state.

    The Dryad adept was not Worth the Points at all, still was probably just me Rolling bad, but i still feel i could have used those Points on Another matriarch or more bodies in the dryad unit. we are sooo weak in the magic phase that it isn't Worth taking, or wasn't at least in that game.
  • Played against both OK and HBE two days ago, if I get time I’ll post up a batrep.

    4500 - Battle Line, Breakthrough, Map pack 9.
    List was:
    Shifter Prince, 2+/4++regen (4+/4++r in cc), Whirlwind Blades, Dragon Staff.
    Eagle BSB, 3+/5++, Hero’s Heart.
    20 Dryads
    2x 14 SA, Music
    2x 3 Kestrels, Standard
    18 Rangers, FC, Vanguard, BoMists
    9 Dancers, Standard, Champ, BoMists
    2x Treefathers

    Ogres list:
    Great Khan, Khan BSB, Shaman Pyro, 3 unit’s Tribesmen at 7 (GK & K bunker) 6 & 5 (Shaman bunker) strong, 3 Yetis, Frosty, 5 Trappers, 3 Tuskers, Canon, 5 Bombardiers.

    Outcome:
    14-6 win to SE.

    He dropped everything for first turn.
    L to R (from my viewpoint):
    Tuskers, Frosty, GK & K bunker, Canon, Bombardiers, Yetis, Shaman bunker, 6 Tribesmen, Trappers scouted in Field

    My deployment:
    L to R:
    Eagle BSB, Treefather 1, Dryads, Treefather 2, Rangers (vanguard up to fence mid board), 2x SA behind Rangers in Forest, Dancers, Shifter and 2x Kestrels (Vanguard up around and behind building on right).

    Matchups:
    Tuskers charges Treefather 1. TF1 held for a round for Dryads to flank. Another round of grinding before Frosty moved within aura at which point they broke and overran into Frosty on OK turn2. Eagle BSB took Frosty in the rear. BSB and Dryads killed him before the TF1 got to strike.

    KK1 corner to corner on Yetis (impassable in the way). Bladedancers failed an average charge. This became a grind fest which I left alone as he fluffed his second round combat at which point I had the advantage.

    KK2 & Shifter into front of 6 Tribesmen. Shifter rolled average for hits but two were sixes so battle focus had a big benefit. Rolled a two for the Dragon Staff. Killed two Tribesmen. Kestrels killed two more and dropped the Shifter out of Combat while taking three wounds back for their trouble.
    Shaman bunker joined the fray and killed the remaining Kestrels.

    Shifter into Shaman Bunker with OK Hereditary (+1Res -1to Wound). Epic fail decision from me as I forgot his Shaman had a name to have flaming attacks. He challenged. Battle focus gave me 9 attacks, none of which managed to roll up the required sixes to wound. At which point he spammed me into the ground due to AP and flaming attacks removing regen.

    2x SA then closed to short range and depleted the Shaman bunker over the next two rounds of shooting. Shaman himself ended up being killed by a treeman in a late combat.

    Rangers into Bombadiers. 12Rangers left after shooting while they were defending the fence. Charged the Bombadiers, lost 3 more in S&S then killed three Bombardiers before taking four wounds in return. Following turn took a flank charge from the Canon and died to impact hits. They did their job of halting the middle of the ogre line and allowing me space to maneuver on my side. As a result OK were never a challenge on the breakthrough objective.

    KK1 (2 strong) into the Canon post Ranger combat. Broke it and ran it down. Big change here was that the Canon was wedged against the Bombardiers so if I was Skirmishing I would only have gotten one Kestrel in.

    Great Khan Bunker (GK, BSB, 7 Tribesmen) vs 17 Dryads & Eagle BSB front, TF2 flank.
    - GK challenged and as I had no champ had to take it on the BSB. I fluffed and he killed me for 2 overkill. His Bloodfist (?) enchant to give max 3+ to hit plus the banner rerolling 1s to wound was very strong. Would definitely bring a Champ to feed him next time.
    - needless to say I lost combat with the TF2 holding stubborn and 11 Dryads running away. They turned to face TF2 who won combat due to some awesome ward saves.
    - TF1 into the flank again and a grind fest continues until they kill TF2 but break and are run down.


    Thoughts:

    Rangers with vanguard:
    These guys are great. They put pressure on the oppositions line in a way that Kestrels cannot. Coupled with the other vanguarding units this gives us a lot of options for overrunning flanks.

    Shifter:
    I feel like he is finally where he needs to be. It’s annoying in list building to have to trade off attacks for protection but that is likely just about finding a build that works.

    Dancers:
    Love the new pricing. I feel they need to be faster if they are to stay in Fleet of Foot. Failing a charge early on meant they were out of position and had a hard time getting back into the game.

    Banner of Mists:
    Effective. However, it’s too expensive to put on min Kestrels. It’s ok on min dancers but only because they are so weak to shooting. The lack of impact on Catapults and Canons means I probably won’t take more than one at the current price.

    BSB On Eagle:
    Liked it. Would use it again. Good maneuverability. Good damage output. Unfortunate he didn’t survive one more round vs the Great Khan but not surprising.

    SA pricing: 250/25ea.
    This freed up my list building a lot. Made it less necessary to take max sized units to get value for points.

    Lack of Magic:
    My opponent was pretty light on Magic and was five-dicing spells all over the place. There wasn’t even a sniff of a miscast anywhere and I think this is sad. There needs to be some risk to the magic phase or alternatively magic users need to go up in points significantly. Having said that, without magic I didn’t feel that I was missing a big part of my army.

    Other:
    My usual lists include Forest Guard and a Caderon BSB. Because the Hunter’s Honour was pushed to 75pts I couldn’t justify the utility of a Caderon BSB (25pts isn’t enough to put anything worthwhile). Hence, the whole unit was swapped for some Dryads.
    "The combination of lemon and habenero peppers was confusing to me. I will pay for this tomorrow i think." - Rosanjin Scholar, Iron Chef
  • against HBE:

    Same list for me. HBE has a two dragon list.

    Disclaimer: This game was abandoned after both his dragons were dead by turn three so I’ll do a brief summary. Also, my opponent couldn’t make an Armour Save to save his life. It cost him a dragon and his Knights Ryma when both should have won combat.

    I vanguarded up Rangers then charged one dragon in my T2. Shifter went in the back at the same time. Dead BSB Dragon.

    He charged my SA with his Mage Dragon and a perfect storm of S&S put four wounds through and then took the last two off in CC. Dead Mage Dragon.

    Kestrels took 7 Knights Ryma in the back and broke them to run them down in T3. Lost two out of three Kestrels, still worth it.

    His Grey Watchers were really effective at putting on their smoke bomb buffs as all they need to do is hit for the resilience test to apply. I feel they should need to wound or something instead as two units of these guys would leave a constant -1 to hit on whatever they chose.

    Take aways:
    Again Vanguarding Rangers our the pressure on early to great effect. They benefitted from my opponents extreme bad luck at rolling armour saves.

    SA were my MVP for obvious reasons.

    Grey Watchers need to be on the priority kill list for us.
    "The combination of lemon and habenero peppers was confusing to me. I will pay for this tomorrow i think." - Rosanjin Scholar, Iron Chef

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Fleshbeast ().

  • DJWoodelf wrote:

    Fleshbeast wrote:

    ...

    SA pricing: 250/25ea.
    This freed up my list building a lot. Made it less necessary to take max sized units to get value for points.

    ...
    what do you mean by this?
    Previously the 260pt min then 24ppm meant that if I was tight on points I could consolidate into one large unit to save some points rather than multiple small or two medium sized units. Now I don’t have to do that as the price is the same per model regardless of unit configuration.

    Hence, the issues I consider when structuring my Archers are not point dependent but rather:
    - do I have enough scoring? No, then go 3x10
    - what is my target? If it’s primarily chaff clearing then I need ~16shots to clear a unit of fast cav so I can run that size and a smaller unit of 10 or 14. If instead I am looking to soften larger units then I can run larger groups who are less likely to hit a decimation test limit.

    :)
    "The combination of lemon and habenero peppers was confusing to me. I will pay for this tomorrow i think." - Rosanjin Scholar, Iron Chef
  • Played a very casual game last night vs O&G. It was 4000 points and this is the list I brought:

    Display Spoiler


    ++ Sylvan Elves (Sylvan Elves 2.0 Beta)[4000Pts] ++

    + Core +

    Forest Guard [465Pts]: Champion, 30x Forest Guard, Musician,Spear and Shield, Standard Bearer

    Sylvan Archers [270Pts]: Musician, 10x Sylvan Archer

    Sylvan Archers [270Pts]: Musician, 10x Sylvan Archer

    + Special +

    Forest Eagle [100Pts]: Forest Eagle

    + Characters +

    Chieftain [360Pts]: Forest Guardian, Light Armour, Shield,Spear, Standard Bearer
    . Special Equipment: Hunter's Honour, Potion of Swiftness,Willow's Ward - Models on Foot only

    Druid [470Pts]: Druidism, Wizard Master
    . Special Equipment: Book of Arcane Power, Crystal Ball

    Forest Prince - Mounted [610Pts]: Army General, Great Elk, LightArmour, Shield, Sylvan Lance, Wild Hunter
    . Special Equipment: Curse of the Black Stag, Glyph of Amryl -Cannot be taken by models with Otherworldly, Talisman of Shielding, Touch ofGreatness

    + Unseen Arrows +

    Sylvan Sentinels [284Pts]: 9x Sylvan Sentinel

    + Fleet of Foot +

    Kestrel Knights [482Pts]: Champion, 4x Kestrel Knight, Musician,Standard Bearer, Sylvan Longbow (3+)
    . Banner Enchantment: Banner of Silent Mist

    Wild Huntsmen [689Pts]: Champion, Musician, Shield, StandardBearer, Sylvan Lance, 9x Wild Huntsman
    . Banner Enchantment: Banner of Silent Mist


    My opponent had an MSU-ey list with lots of chariots and boarriders. He also had one Gargantula, one giant and a block of Goblins with threeMad Gits.

    Lots of mistakes where made on both sides, but of most importance, my Huntsmen (with Prince in) had a 9 overrun into his General, which they made. It ended 17-3 on points and objectives (kill Scoring units) were tied.

    Boy, oh boy, is it fun to run amok with Wild Huntsmen! I never took any Frenzy-checks (since I willingly charged whenever I could), and I passed three out of three March checks. My opponent put his Gargantula too far forward in his first turn and my unit did more than 10 wounds to it, then overran into his General on a chariot. They took countercharges from the BSB on a chariot and a Goblin hero on what I think was a gnasher(?). It was a real dicey grind, but I buffed them a lot and after a few turns, I came out on top.

    Therest of the battle was less important. I wasn’t too impressed with my shooting, but that could easily have been because of my poor targeting (and that one of my archer units spent most of the game running away).

    Druidism:

    The range of the spells make it next to impossible to keep up with a unit like WH, especially since our Druids and their (unmounted) bunkers are as squishy as they are. I’ll be playing 4000 points for the next while, in preparation for a small tournament, so I probably won’t try out a Treefather Ancient, but he might make Druidism more viable in this list.

    I think there needs to be some redesign regarding the 6 spell (Spirits of theWood). Arguably, I can’t see a race that benefits more from this spell and Istill can’t see it being taken over the 1 spell (Healing Waters). Spirits of the Wood can work wonders as a Hex, but then you need to cast Oaken Throne first and that’s not realistic. I don’t think it would be too much to make it Universal without Oaken Throne (at an increase in casting cost, ofc).

    OakenThrone is ridiculously easy to dispel, but it is, as always, an easy spell to draw dice from the opponent.

    Curseof the Black Stag/Glyph of Amryl:

    I initially started designing the Prince just before our book was released and it was with Curse of the Black Stag (giving +1 armour instead of Innate Defence) and a Dusk Forged Shield Enchantment. That would leave him with 2+ rerollable (insteadof 3+/4++) which is a bit worse, but it would leave 60 points of magic allowance and also two trinket slots. I don’t think it’s an unfair option to have, so if it haven’t been said before, I think we should redesign Curse of the Black Stag ;)

    The post was edited 1 time, last by SimonDK: Space key seems broken ().

  • Fleshbeast wrote:

    DJWoodelf wrote:

    Fleshbeast wrote:

    ...

    SA pricing: 250/25ea.
    This freed up my list building a lot. Made it less necessary to take max sized units to get value for points.

    ...
    what do you mean by this?
    Previously the 260pt min then 24ppm meant that if I was tight on points I could consolidate into one large unit to save some points rather than multiple small or two medium sized units. Now I don’t have to do that as the price is the same per model regardless of unit configuration.
    Hence, the issues I consider when structuring my Archers are not point dependent but rather:
    - do I have enough scoring? No, then go 3x10
    - what is my target? If it’s primarily chaff clearing then I need ~16shots to clear a unit of fast cav so I can run that size and a smaller unit of 10 or 14. If instead I am looking to soften larger units then I can run larger groups who are less likely to hit a decimation test limit.

    :)
    I dont see the sense of the change in pricing.
    instead of changing 260/24 to 250/25 it should rather have been the other way round = 270/23....but while they are slightly overpriced it would be 260/23 or 250/24.

    Additional models dont bring a lot.
    Only two ranks may shoot so every additional model make the unit wider and thus less mobile and using more space to bring MSU units next to each other.
    Furthermore, Scoring must have an initial point cost being cosidered in every unit with Scoring.

    Why taking 1x20 instead of 2x10 for a shooting AND scoring unit?
    My favourite is 13 models or 12 if character joins to prevent panic tests after 3 casualties.

    Quick Starter Team

    Playtester


  • @DJWoodelf I also favored 12models in a unit until I found the following:
    - panic check after any Pyro spell targeted the unit
    - panic check after any opposing shooting unit targeted my unit
    - this was not enough to kill off a chaff unit (Reavers for example) which meant that if I needed to delete a chaff unit then I needed to focus with two units meaning 24shots went into the chaff unit. This generally led to 2-3 wounds in overkill.

    Once I moved to 14, then I generally had only one wound left alive in the chaff unit I was targeting (none if I used a 16 model SA unit) which meant a unit of Kestrels shooting or a single shot from a solo character would tick off that final wound.
    "The combination of lemon and habenero peppers was confusing to me. I will pay for this tomorrow i think." - Rosanjin Scholar, Iron Chef
  • Hi there,

    so I played 4500 pts battle vs KoE today. First 2.0 beta game for me. Was pretty pleased :). Here is My army List :

    Characters :

    Thicket shepherd : entwined roots, general

    Druid : master cosmology, talisman of void, magical heilroom

    Chieftain : bsb, shapeshifter, light armour, shield, sylvan blades, heroes heart, basalt infusion

    Core :

    2*10 sylvan archers, fcg
    2*11 sylvan archers, fcg

    Special :

    2*1 forest eagle

    6 thickets beast : champion, entwined roots

    26 forest rangers : fcg, vanguard, banner of deception

    Fleet of foot :

    2*3 kestrel knights : fcg, banner of silent mist.

    Wanted to try some new things in our army Book like the forest rangers in line formation. My Partner was new to KoE so he did some mistakes allowing me to charge his unites of Questing Knights with characters and Knights of the realm.

    My impressions :

    ShapeShifter BSB :

    Would have loved to be able to put my Chieftain BSB in the ranger forests unite and get the Vanguard. Was not possible. So made him shapeshifter. Mobility gets him where he is needed and he can give some more extra resultats with a nice flank charge. Did what I wanted him to do even if my dices were poor (6 A, 5*1 to hit :( ). I might change his enchantments.
    Any idea if in next update it will be possible to put him in vanguard forest ranger ? Would be awesome !

    Druid + cosmology path :

    Love that Path. MVP spells for me : Perception of strength and unity in divergence. Got although Hereditary spell wih Magical Heilroom to try it. I Like the fact that I have 2 chances to get aegis 5+ on forests rangers vs ranged attacks. The 6" Magical move was not interesting in this game so did not use. But I will keep try it.

    Thicket Sheperd + entwined roots + thicket beasts :

    A must have for me. I use those to put a huge pressure in the center. To bad they are not Scoring, would be perfect xD. The +1 Agi when charging is very nice for them.

    Vanguard Forest Ranger + banner of deception :

    i'm in love with those. I Saw some army list with 18 models units. Wanted to try the 26 models unit in line formation. Did ok while charging questing Knights with characters. Get unity in divergence and perception of strength on them and they are even better.
    Love the Vanguard option. Gives you the opportunity to Charge turn 2. Coupled with the Thickets beast unite, it is a huge threat.
    Did not have the opportunity to really use Banner of deception for now. But I like the idea so I'll keep using it.
    I don't know if someone realized it. But Forest rangers are now S5 Pen 3 now. (Pen 1 from characteristic + Pen 2 from Great Weapon). Give a nice option VS cavalry.

    Sylvan Archers :

    42 shots by turn. Almost always hitting on 4+. Love it. They are just perfect. When my front line moves, they move. Shot down 7 Grail knights, 5 Yoemans with them in 2 round.

    Forest Eagle :

    What Else ? Help to get even more pressure with thickets beasts and Forest rangers. I Charged KoE units because they did a great job redirecting.

    Kestrel Knights + Banner of silent mist :

    Was Able to use de 3" rule of the banner. I'ts cool. having -2 to hit on ranged attacked on these is really cool. ranged unit really have to fear them. If well played, you can get behind ennemy lines by turn 1.


    KoE player abandoned End of turn 2 mainly because I managed to harge (front and flank) his 2 big unites (questing knights with characters, knights of the realm) and the one with characters fled. MoreOver, he had only 1 grail knight left.

    Close combats :

    charging Forest rangers (front) + Krestel knghts (flank) on Questing Knights. We both had poor dices. However I felt like forest rangers were able to manage quite well the fight. Having Unity in divergence on them quite helped. Having distracting on them with hunter's honour would have been cool.

    Magic phase :

    I was always able to cast at least 1 spell. Which is pleasant. There is always a spell usefull in Cosomology which is nice.


    Next play is this week end vs EoS. This time against a more veteran player against who I'm used to lose xD. This will be the real test ! i'll post a report of course :).
  • So I had been playing 6 games (3 at a tournament) so far, this is my list:

    Forest Prince General
    Lifeseed Feathers
    Sylvan bow
    Hail shoot

    (MVP) This guy I was pretty happy about, he is difficult to use and requires some thoughts, but I got great success with him, the only thing I would change is removing Hail shoot, he is still expensive, but I wont leave home without him, because he can put some pressure from far away.

    Forest Prince
    Pathfinder
    Bough of Wyscan
    Sylvan bow

    This guy was okay, but not worth his points, if he could add his Sylvan bow to the wyscan, then we are talking, but I cant remember great things he did except shooting a WM and a last wound from a giant.
    Druid
    Master cosmology
    Talisman of the Void
    Lightning Vambraces

    (MVP) A new important character in my army, cosmology really helps with the snipe and missile, helping us dealing with though characters.
    Lightning Vambraces was only meeh, and helped clear some chaff, Talisman of the void was good always nice to have extra tokens.


    Cheiftain
    BSB
    Forest guard
    Hunters honor
    Light armour
    Shield
    Willow’s Ward

    As good as always, nothing new there.

    Core:

    34 Forest Guards FC
    Legion Standard

    good and cheap as always, nothing new there.

    8 dryads

    8 dryads

    very nice and cheap scoring unit.

    21 Forest guards
    FC
    Triple march

    good and cheap as always, nothing new there, triple march help scoring objective or run from an enemy unit in capture the flag.

    Unseen arrow:

    2 x 10 Sentinels

    (MVP) The AP 1 really helps this unit, I rarely got them into short ranges, because of my general, but all in all i'm really happy for them.

    FoF:

    8 Briar maidens

    (MVP) This unit never died in any of my games, and they can put a lot of pressure against other chaff units, monsters, WM and so on, they are a pain to remove, really like this unit still.

    2 x 4 Kestrel

    As always really good unit, they could have won me a game against Empire, if they would have made their LD 9 test, their shooting didn't do anything, in the future, I think I would go with either reroll LD banner or soft cover.
    They are always good to open up a game.


    Special:

    Eagle

    Redirector, you know the drill.


    So far I have played against DE, EoS, SA, WotG, So far it seems the SE is in an okay spot, but is difficult to tell after 6 games only, but I look forward to play some more games, in the future I will add an extra unit of briar maidens, I will remove the pathfinder character, remove one Kestrel in each unit and add a banner on them, swap some points around and remove a unit of sentinels and try with 2 units of pathfinders.

    But so far i'm positive.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Koller ().

  • Games played 6 (VS x 2, DH x 2, SA, VC)

    I have used the same list with minor alterations in between games.

    Fleet of Foot

    Briar Maidens [345Pts]: 5x Briar Maiden, Champion, Musician

    Kestrel Knights [335Pts]: Champion, 3x Kestrel Knight, Musician, Sylvan Longbow (3+)

    Special

    Forest Eagle [100Pts]: Forest Eagle

    Forest Rangers [613Pts]: Champion, 23x Forest Ranger, Musician, Standard Bearer
    . Banner Enchantment: Predator Pennant

    Thicket Beasts [446Pts]: Champion, 6x Thicket Beast

    Characters

    Druid - Mounted [470Pts]: Cosmology, Eagle King, Sylvan Longbow (3+), Wizard Master
    . Special Equipment: Dragon Staff

    Forest Prince [415Pts]: Army General, Forest Guardian, Light Armour, Sylvan Blades, Sylvan Longbow (0+)
    . Special Equipment: Death Cheater, Spirit of the Whirlwind

    Unseen Arrows
    Pathfinders [349Pts]: 8x Pathfinder

    Sylvan Sentinels [301Pts]: Scout, Sylvan Blades, 8x Sylvan Sentinel

    Core
    Forest Guard [255Pts]: Champion, Elven Cloak and Sylvan Blades, 15x Forest Guard, Musician, Standard Bearer

    Heath Riders [280Pts]: 5x Heath Rider, Musician, Standard Bearer, Sylvan Longbow (3+), Feigned Flight, Light Troops, Vanguard
    . Banner Enchantment: Banner of Silent Mist

    Sylvan Archers [320Pts]: Musician, 12x Sylvan Archer

    Sylvan Archers [270Pts]: Musician, 10x Sylvan Archer

    Total: [4499Pts]

    Overall
    Won 4 lost 1 draw 1. As the changers trickled in I was very skeptical of the new book but am pleasantly surprised with how well it plays. As a long time woody player I am loving the changers to arrows/bows. There are still problems and some items/units I dont think are even worth testing in beta because they so obviously do not work/are poor compared to other choices.

    Going to score the units on a 1-10 scale where 5 is perfect no need for change, 1 is terrible need point decrease/rewrite and 10 is op needs point increase/stat decrease.

    Positives
    Sylvan Archers - As strong a choice as they ever were and the new point break down makes it easier to be flexible on unit sizes. 5/10

    Heath Riders - Been using these in the bow setup, exactly where I have wanted them to be since the 9th age was kicked off. With an effect shooting attack finally they are more than just an eagle replacement and pose a threat that your opponent has to think about. Having a second good shooting attack in core takes some pressure off the Sylvan Archers and has meant I have roughly halved the number of archers I had been taking. They have only survived 1 of the 6 games I have played but always accomplish something before they go. 6/10

    Forest Guard - The only core combat block I have tried so far. A big block with spears is cheap and a good scoring unit. If they stick to a wood they can normally hold most things for a turn or two and will beat most other core. In this formation they do not fit my playstyle as they are very defensive, I think SE are best when taking the initiative. To try them out more to my taste I have mostly used them in a 8x2 with paired weapons, champ and musician. Been hit and miss really. They mulched through a block of 30 Zombies in two combat phases in one game but in another lost me a combat against 6 Hold Guardians even though I had 6 thicket beasts to the front and the +1 strength spell up as they bled far too much combat res. 5/10

    Eagle - Its an Eagle 5/10

    Forest Rangers - Wow these guys have done great for me going all the way back to 8th. Every game they easily get the points back and now the unit comes in cheaper. The new line formation is great for them which has freed up their banner slot as I no longer need the Amyrl banner (also its not an option anymore). Have only tried them in a 8x3 so far both with vanguard and without. I think in other armies vanguard on this unit would be an auto include but in an army which such good movement and shooting I dont really want to be committing to turn 1/2 chargers when I have not had the time to soften up the enemy yet. They also have terrible synergy with characters as both vanguard and the adv 6 are lost, this exacerbates the removal of bodyguard. However, on the charge with Predator Pennant they are arguably the best point for point unit in the game. In my games so far they have killed units of storm hulks, storm vermin, grey beards and saurus warriors. Nothing can really stand up to them. 7/10

    Thicket Beasts - No change from 1.3. Grind out deep infantry units and one of the few units that can hold an objective point. Still no musician is a problem and cost me the objective in the game against SA. 6/10

    Kestrel Knights - By far my favorite unit so far in 2.0. They have always been a threat and annoyance for our opponents and the changers have only made them better. Losing skirmish and keeping all the benefits is great and when added to the s4 bow (short range turn 1 without fail) has made them an auto include in my lists. They also have great synergy with the Banner of Silent Mist which makes them more durable and can really mess with your opponents plans. 6/10

    Briar Maidens - I feel like they have had a bit of stealth nerf really. The changers to quick to fire makes it harder to use them to hunt monsters and such due to the changers to stand and shoot/quick to fire. The spell selection also isnt quite right. One of the reasons they work for me is that they have a magic missile, which when combined with their own shooting is great for hunting chaff and light monsters. Maybe this is another symptom of the underwhelming SE Hereditary spell. 5/10 (3/10 for 2nd unit)

    Sylan Sentinels - Great. I know some people sont like the paired weapons option but all I can say is give it a go. I think it was DJwoodelf who described the scenario of them shooting a monster, stand and shooting a monster and then finishing them off with paired close combat weapons with poison. Had this exact scenario play out against Hold Guardians. They also didnt take the stealth nerf to offence skill like path finders so are in a really good spot. Skirmish changers also help. 5/10

    Pathfinders - S4 bow has done wonders for them. As shown they are our most cost effective arrow shot and I have seen this largely played out on the table. Only grievance I have with them is the loss of offence skill without gaining an agility. 5/10

    Eagle King (With druid on top) - This has been great so far when paired with a cosmology druid. For all the people complaining that we cant get a light troops wizard on horse should give this a go. Have taken him in 5/6 games and she has survived every time. The durability is good and the range of cosmology helps to stay out of harms way whilst still being where you need to be. 7/10 for wizard / 4/10 for chieftain.

    Lifeseed Feathers - Have only taken this twice and have already dropped it. The game against SA should have been its chance to really shine since he had numerous weapon beasts and stegadons but it really didnt wow. This could have been due to the dice but on the whole I think a unit of Sentinels will always be better. 2/10

    Spirit of the Whirlwind - Wasnt sure on this at first and thought the Heart of the Hero was better in all situations as it is our item I stuck with it. I know think it is much better than the brb item, you lose 1 ap but gain battle focus and a better synergy with spells as the +1s stacks whilst heroes heart does not. Had a Forest Guardian Prince kill 8 storm guard in one round of combat today...will not be dropping this enchant in a hurry. 5/10

    Predator Pennant - Lot of hate for this thing in the forum, of which I was included in when I first read the description. I am now a convert, its great. With our free wood and the other 1/2 other woods on the board it is easy to find a spot to ambush from.My Forest Rangers use to hang about in woods anyway for protection from shooting and this synergies well with that. Only had one game without getting it to work and in a couple of games got multiple distracts off. It also frees up the weapon enchant for my lord to drop the Hunters Honour in favor of the above whirlwind build. As it is skill based/ situational, seeing what HE have and it being our army strength, I feel it has a bit of room to come down in cost. 4/10

    Banner of Silent Mist - Another solid item that synergies with our units strengths and the overall army play-style. It is fun to use and gives me another tool to help control the movement phase. My only worry is that it leans a little to o far towards avoidance lists. 5/10

    Hot Takes
    Things I just cant see my self even putting on the table so going to beta feed back on them now =p

    All Aspects of Nature - No real change from 1.3 and I dont see there being a change in how often they are used, which is to say not used. 2/10

    Shielding Bark - Straight up worse in every way then what is available in the brb. Like the idea and think if it was an artefact it would see use. 3/10

    Wild Hunters unit/characters - Already a fringe unit for me in 1.3 due to frenzy and how fragile they are. The "upgrade" to damage output is situational and minimal and is out weighed massively by the changers to frenzy. So hard to use and terrible against a good player. The drop from def 5 down to def 3 is the biggest blow and means that they are as fragile in combat as they are out of combat. Any unit you would want to use them against will be hitting them on 3s wounding them on 3s or better and you will only have a 6+/6++ to reply. 2/10

    Done for now happy hunting.