The Vôdun Vampires of the Mangrove

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    • The Vôdun Vampires of the Mangrove

      EDIT: here is the latest version of the AB: The Vôdun Vampires of the Mangrove


      This thread is designed for building a T9A army, the Vôdun Vampires of the Mangrove, mirroring (with some fantasy) the historical Ashanti Empire and Benin Kingdoms.
      It will take some loose inspiration from Benin's traditional religion Vodoun, in which the Haitian Voodoo and Brazilian Candomblé take root from.
      More interestingly, it will be featuring the Asanbosam authentic West African Vampires :muaha: , and the Leopard Society :hiddenthreat: of Cote d’Ivoire and around.
      Oh, did I mention that there will be evil Pygmies? :evil: And plenty of dangerous forest animals? :pursuit:

      The series of Taphrian Homebrew was initiated thanks to @Ghiznuk, in It's time for Africa !

      The goal here is not merely to find an exotic setting for models.
      What we want to achieve is to take inspiration from some of the most glorious or fascinating pages of the History and Folklore of various African peoples, and realize from that a quality extension of T9A, which will give justice to the African continent and its cultures, too often forgotten in Fantasy games.

      This thread is created as the Vôdun Vampire AB is only a vision.
      This is where volunteers will combine efforts to make it happen.

      We will explore:
      - the background explained, and the background told.
      - the army rules (note that as it is envisioned to be an Auxiliary Book, it will inherit Vampire's ASAW and some Army Rules, Characters, Troops...)
      - possible models.
      After the initial brainstorming, here is the initial direction: The Vôdun Vampires of the Mangrove.

      Please participate!

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • Background.
      Initial research in It's time for Africa !
      BG in T9A material

      Nothing. Which could be consiered fitting, as Vampires try to conceal themselves as much as possible.
      Vampires thrive in the ignorance of their human prey, concealing their existence in rumour and myth, pulling the strings of mortal puppets. It seems that as long as humanity has existed, these leeches have worked behind the scenes.
      BG in African History and legends

      Asanbosam of the Ashanti of southern Ghana;
      West African Vampire
      The Asanbosam, Asasabonsam or more commonly Sasabonsam [1] is a vampire-like folkloric being from West Africa. It belongs to the folklore of the Ashanti of southern Ghana, as well as Côte d'Ivoire and Togo.[2] It is said to have iron teeth and iron hooks for feet and to live in trees, attacking from above.[1]
      In mythology, it is usually portrayed as an archetypical ogre; according to A Dictionary of World Mythology:
      ...the hairy Sasabonsam has large blood-shot eyes, long legs, and feet pointing both ways. Its favourite trick is to sit on the high branches of a tree and dangle its legs so as to entangle the unwary hunter.
      [/quote]Both the ogre and vampire versions have iron teeth.

      Leopard Society of Cote d’Ivoire and around (and lots of fiction, too).

      West African coast, such as Benin with its Vodoun, where the RL Haitian Voodoo and Brazilian Candomblé come from.
      The Ashanti Empire was established in coastal West Africa.
      Dahomey Frenzied Amazons were described.
      Army background
      VC Auxiliary Army.
      Evil Pygmies are suggested as a great complement, very fluffy here.
      Of course, Zombies and Bats! Also, in the forest, all kind of prehistoric mammals may live as living fossils. Fitting for "undead" creatures!
      Obviously a distinct Vampire bloodline should be created, possibly the mythic ancestor?
      Most of the AB might be taken unchanged.

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • Brainstorming
      from the thread Its time for Africa

      Ghiznuk wrote:

      Hey guys,

      I was wondering about the Evil-Jungle-Sorcerers army list.

      In my understanding, they're a group of evil vodoo people using Occultism, Evocation, they have zombies and summon evil swamp beasts such as crocodiles, water worms, water scorpions, leeches, mosquitos, bats, spiders, poison frogs, bog wraiths… all the disgusting jungle critters. Maybe also summon dæmons.
      Now, looking at this, I realize they pretty much do the exact same thing as the Vampire Covenant army.
      So, I was wondering if we couldn't just make them a VC Auxiliary book ?
      They don't have to be ruled by vampires but they could have vampires, maybe submitted to the vodoo priests / sorcerers.

      Calisson on the other hand was suggesting we give them big jungle dinosaurs, but I feel this is something the local Saurians already have and we should leave it to the Saurians.

      Your opinion ?

      Scylla wrote:

      Ghiznuk wrote:

      Now, looking at this, I realize they pretty much do the exact same thing as the Vampire Covenant army.
      So, I was wondering if we couldn't just make them a VC Auxiliary book ?
      They don't have to be ruled by vampires but they could have vampires, maybe submitted to the vodoo priests / sorcerers.

      Calisson on the other hand was suggesting we give them big jungle dinosaurs, but I feel this is something the local Saurians already have and we should leave it to the Saurians.
      Now that you put it this way, it makes sense to have them as a VC auxiliary book or VC in-book alternative list like the Terracotta Army of the UD, unless someone comes up with some great ideas to differentiate them from VC and SA.
      Evil dinosaurs are hard to picture. In fantasy dinosaurs are usually represented as neutral animals, with the idea that prehistory didn't have concepts for good and evil or that dinosaurs are just too big to care about human ideals. Even in Dino D-Day, they're non-sentient beasts of burden or living weapons being exploited by the Nazis. A couple of pics for fun:

      krlitoxs wrote:

      I would love to combine Evil Jungle Sorcerers with SA, and I have a nice idea for that (actually it's Privateer Press idea :P :( let's inspire the SA book on the Blindwater Congregation.

      Privateer Press wrote:

      Slithering in the swamps, the Blindwater Congregation is a faction of Gatormen who call upon necromantic power to fuel their Bokors and infuse their warbeasts with power from an age undreamed of.
      Miniature list HERE. They have an awesome range of miniatures that could be a great inspiration.
      So they are voodoo Crocodile-men, that in my opinion would make a nice addition to T9A, the army could be based on Skinks and Caimans, forgetting about Saurus and Cuatl, with lots of huge monsters and VC-like zombie shenanigans. Occultism, Evocation and Witchcraft fit perfectly as magic paths.

      Ghiznuk wrote:

      So the Pygmies could be slaves or allies to the Mangrove Vodoo Vampires.

      Like those little pests with sarbacanes in Diablo 2.

      Ghiznuk wrote:

      The griot translated back for the elder, who spoke, before allowing the griot to turn again :

      « The elder has heard you and accepts these gifts with many thanks. He is glad to know that the route to the North is re-opened ; truly, long has been the time since the last merchant came here.
      Brave warleader, you have to know however that here too, the flow of gold is running low from the South. A new threat has emerged in the deep, dark forests that lie yonder. Not the ancient lizards from the Age of dawn, that have always been there and that we know how to avoid, but something more sinister. The people talk of cruel slavers, dæmons and djinns, dead that rise from the grave and slithering, poisonous things in the damp places, and of a dark tower covered with the bones of sacrificed victims. They too mine for gold, it is said they sell it to the foreigners who come from over the sea. Really, we beg our Father, the King of Kings, he whose armies cover all the land, to send his best scouts and spies to that place to investigate and find the best way to counter that new menace. »

      Mercenary Armies wrote:

      Pigmeys are a good idea. Still they don't exist in official bg (I think) replace them with ghouls?! Ghouls with weapons and other fluffy options

      badman341980 wrote:

      OMG! Evil jungle Pygmee sorcerers!!! Yes please!
      It has been a couple of months since i was active here because of a pc change (never occurred to me to write down my passwords and logins...) and what has happened in this thread is nothing short of great work!
      I've just been reading into the Vanhu book, haven't got around to doing the others or even catching up on this thread (you guys have been very busy, hehe).

      It would be nice to get involved in a new one and just the thought of evil Pygmee sorcerers from the jungle is very exciting to me!

      Blowpipes, mosquito swarms, bats,...
      Small units of Pygmees with poisoned blowpipes, guerilla warfare style, not based on feigned flee but rather on some sort of appear/disappear ability (to disappear you could make them roll a disc test with a +1 modifier for every wound caused this turn by the unit, to appear roll a disc test with a +2 modifier), disc 5 as they're an unruly bunch and can't benefit from inspiring presence or rally around the flag.
      No real fighters around, they're sneaky little guys, using poison, magic, swarms of little critters and things of that sort to do damage to their enemies as their little bodies are perfect for this, not for weapons that have some bigger weight to them...
      Basic statline of a goblin to start from but with lots of annoying abilities on different units and agi 4/5.
      Distracting and hard target fairly common in this army, the appear/disappear thing, taunting the enemy into a trap (could be represented as: one use only, when the unit is unengaged in combat and gets charged the defending player may reveal a 2x3 inch area within 5 inches of the charged unit and unoccupied by any enemy model. For the remainder of the game all non-Pygmee models moving over this area without fly suffer an automatic wound with ap2, ap3 when mounted and naturally, should a flyer land in such a spiky pit, they suffer the same fate), think shenannigans and this army will probably try it but a real fight is allmost certainly an auto-loss due to low strength, the inability to wield heavy weaponry and such.
      Maybe a limited number can be really combat oriented but still relying heavily on magic support, (improved?) poison, hard to hit but fairly easy to wound, you should get the general idea by now ;)
      Some other jungle animals could be around (monkeys, snakes and so on).
      I can't really see an anvil unit in such a setting but surely lots of distractions (maybe a replicable hereditary spell that dictates an enemy unit's next direction unless they pass a modified disc test and the direction can't be the nearest board edge?), chaff in the form of swarms (birds? insects? bats? or something else?)
      That's just what popped into my mind at the thought of such an army :muaha:

      Irondaemon wrote:

      This would be great. I already have a Africa-themed army. Or, well, it’s a mix. But a lot of apes and monkeys, an elephant, weird flying chimpanzees, voodoo-priests, big gorilla-monsters, etc... I use them as a VC-army.

      Irondaemon wrote:

      Yeah, for sure my Army is more of a jungle themed one, but mixed with other stuff aswell. Like hyenas. And camels whenever I get round to it.

      Here’s My old blog. Might have painted other things since, but it might get the idea out at least.

      Autumnus wrote:

      I will try to post some later or tomorrow, but a few pics are shown in the blog 'a tale of many gamers' by Henrypmiller :) Ive been working as an archaeologist in the Dahomeyian capitol Abomey some times now, and I find new inspiration each time :)

      Irondaemon wrote:

      I have like 100pygmies that i use as zombies/tokoloshes in my Army. Also those linked Perry miniatures warriors as skeletons (or well, skull painted tribal warriors) and Heresy miniatures Ghouls as Cannibals.

      Ghiznuk wrote:

      Masks. (click in link above to see them)
      My brother-in-law is a professional dancer, I asked him why his band doesn't play that mask whose picture I just found, and which appear to be of his ethnic group : « One of our dancers can dance it, but we don't perform that one in public because there are too many forces involved ».
      Yep, that's in 2017. Now think about what it's like in the 9th Age ^^

      Ghiznuk wrote:

      Calisson wrote:

      VC have no Taphrian tradition I could find.
      Try typing « Vampire Afrique » in Google then.
      Like this. Or this, for a modern example.

      Also, I don't know anything about the origins of the vampires in T9A, but in the WH fluff they came from Egypt and so it'd be logical that Nubia and Ethiopia be some of the first countries they would reach to infest. Could totally picture a Vampire Queen somewhere in the deep of the jungle.

      Ghiznuk wrote:

      In my point of view anyway, characters such as Baron Samedi can be avatars of any real African god.

      Also there's been a lot of back and forth between the original African religions and the American Blacks religion, ie. when people go back to Africa from America they also bring back their own beliefs (Liberian settlers a hundred years ago, successful emigrants coming back to Africa after years of work abroad, etc.). Further, people from America have more access to the media and write more on the internet : I swear there are more websites about the Orixas written in Yoruba language by Brazilian people than by Nigerian people. So it is perfectly possible that people from today Benin, Nigeria, Angola, … (and France !) practice a religion which is influenced by the Vodou and Candomblê coming back from North and South America. So it is perfectly possible that some African gods be represented under the traits of the Haitian barons, in Africa.
      I mean, just like we can find Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses in Europe, right ?
      Couldn't we imagine such avatars to be able to summon a Taphrian army somewhere else in the world ?
      Don't we have the beginnings of slavery in Virentia ? It's mentioned in the fluff that the Destrians tried to put the Saurians to work, why not Taphrians ? except that some people might find it bad taste.
      Finally, to have a model that looks like Baron Samedi doesn't mean it is Baron Samedi.

      Ghiznuk wrote:

      @Calisson for the human cultures of the jungle, I'd rather take either one of the Nigerian Yoruba empires (Edo, Oyo, Ile-Ife), either Kongo.

      The main reasons being
      1. Jungle in the Ashanti lands is not as fantastic as in Southern Nigeria/Central Africa, it lacks mangrove, is only 200 km wide, suffers from the dry Saharan winds in winter, and actually the Ashanti (and Akan people in general) did not really settle in the deep jungle but more on the border between jungle and savannah, in the places where they could easily collect the products of the jungle to sell them to the savannah empires.
      2. Also, the peak of their power coincides with selling slaves to European traders using weapons sold by them to the same Europeans. Before that. When the slave trade ceased, the empire lost all its revenues (and then was easily conquered by Europe). Not too fantastic. On the other hand, Nigerian iron age cultures built huge walled cities a long time before the Europeans arrived and were at the same time less influenced by the Savannah civilizations (though they still traded with them).
      3. Though Ashanti had its own religion (a mix of nature spirits worshipping with belief in one Heaven God and one Earth Goddess plus other minor deities), it was not as developed as the Vodoo pantheon of the Orixa gods, which have a full-fledged mythology that we can draw a lot of elements from. At least, we do not have so much written material about the Ashanti religion than about the Orixa religion.
      4. The names given to the Saurian city and to the Mfumu river are clearly Bantu language. Yoruba and Ashanti cultures are not Bantu. Kongo is.
      5. Kongo, though I do not know a lot about its culture, sounds a lot more like a jungle-river civilization than any other culture I know of in Africa.

      Also, don't forget the Pygmies.

      1. Pygmies are very different human beings than the modern (Bantu) Congolese, Gabonese and Cameroonians. They are smaller, have a lighter skin colour, remain semi-nomadic hunters-gatherers living in communistic societies. There was a lot of debate in the past regarding their race or species, like are they full humans (« sapiens ») or closer to the earlier human species (« erectus » and so on). The Bantu people (farmers and cattle herders living in more complex caste or class, “semi-feudal” societies and using iron tools and weapons) treat them with suspicion still today or consider them as inferior beings, as they have a totally different culture – a divide that has only widened with the establishment of modern urban capitalist society in those countries, whereas the Pygmies basically stayed the same.

      2. Also, there are a lot of stories, even in West Africa where Pygmies don't live, about Pygmies abducting children, people getting lost in the jungle for years and getting out the same day when they were lost (or disappearing for a long time and coming back without having got any older), etc. just like the Equitan stories about the Sylvan Elves. In Ivorian folklore for example, the Pygmies are described as having very long hair and feet reversed (so their tracks always lead to the opposite direction).

      3. The fact that the stories are so widespread, even in countries where Pygmies don't live today, probably refers to the fact that the first Blacks (according to legend and modern nationalistic “theories”, the ancestors of the Akan and Bantu people came from Egypt) who settled the lands found them inhabited by the primitive Pygmies, who were later absorbed by the dominant culture. (Don't forget that the Bantu motherland is the Adamawa/Adamaoua kingdom along the Benue/Bénoué river, in South-East Nigeria/North-Western Cameroon, it was only something like 800 years ago that they suddenly spread to the whole continent (Central, Eastern and Southern Africa at least), which explains why all local languages from Cameroon to Mozambique are so similar.)

      Ghiznuk wrote:

      I was thinking that we could introduce somewhere in the T9A universe, and probably in Taphria as that's where that kind of awfulness usually happens, some awful plant that actually hurts the farmers, but they can't stop growing it as it brings them a lot of money (or they are slaves or other bound labour).

      A famous example is cashew.
      The nut contains in its shell a burning acid liquid, that's why cashew nuts are so expensive, it's because in modern times they can be open only in very safe environments, usually in a factory. But if working conditions are not respected and, for example, workers don't get gloves or sufficient protection for their eyes and faces (as is sadly the case in « Third-world » countries such as India), you get really nasty burns and wounds. I also read that in Vietnam the « communist » government makes convicts open the shells.
      I was talking about it with my wife this morning to ask if she knows about it, she says it's commonly used in Côte d'Ivoire to « remove » an unwanted tattoo or draw scarifications on your skin, and that's how her older brother got that scar on his shoulder (I'd noticed but never asked the question, now I got the answer).

      I was also thinking about a plant that would actually feed off human blood, like it'd be a good fertilizer. Like some kind of evil cacao.

      And that'd be in line with the « special needs » of the Highborn Elves for example (see the story about the Camilia plant from Sagarika).
      Though it could originally be something used by the Saurian Coatls, as historically chocolate was connected to Aztec religion.

      What'd you think of it ?

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • If this is meant to be a VC auxiliary book, we should try to focus on keeping as many unit entries as we can. Let's review VC current units:

      • For me, all Core entries can stay, as all of them are generic undead archetypes that can fit well enough.
      • Dire Wolves must go, and be replaced by Crocodiles.
      • Barrow Guard and Barrow Knights removed, in my opinion they don't fit in a jungle army.
      • Ghasts could stay, or be replaced by another creature with similar rules.
      • Great Bats stay.
      • Cadaver Wagon, Court of the Damned, Altar of Undeath and Dark Coach gone. No chariots/constructs on a jungle please.
      • In my opinion all The Suffering section should go, I prefer this army to be more creature/monster oriented than ghost oriented.
      • Vampire Knights gone.
      • All other Swift Death entries can fit with maybe a name change.
      • Character-wise, same pattern, Barrow King and ghost characters gone. Limit mount options for Vampires and Necromancers.
      • Hereditary Spell is essential to VC play-style, so in my opinion we need to change it to differentiate from a regular VC army, but should retain the essence of a never-ending undead horde.
      As they are vampires of the mangrove, Strider (Forest&Water) should be easily available for the army.
      Some kind of ritual sacrifice can be a theme for the army, maybe on the Hereditary Spell, or in some units that get bonuses sacrifying models (similar to Path of Occultism).
      Skirmishing no undead Pygmies with Blowpipes (like Skinks) open up new playstyles for an undead army.

      Will come back with more ideas :)
    • Thank you for starting this thread.

      So the colour for this army (in Magic the Gathering terms) is Green and Black.
      Which is an interesting contradiction.

      It is basically rotten life.

      thank you @krlitoxs for making the list of units we can throw away, so what are the units who stay ? :D

      I'm not convinced even by the skeletons actually.

      In my mind the army should be half alive half undead.

      – In my understanding, the primary role should be played by the witchdoctors and evil priests. Evocation and Occultism for them.
      Hereditary spell should be some resurrection thing, but –

      – The vampires should be mostly thralls, allies or pets of those sorcerers.

      Barrow King is Baron Samedi.

      – Wraith… there could be some will o the wisp spirit wraiths, just like in Diablo 2.

      Zombies. Masses.

      – Bat Swarms and other swarms.

      Great Bats.

      – Ghost swarms – will o the wisps

      – Ghasts – some kind of vodoun flesh golem at least

      – Some Vodun Vampire Spawn

      That's it.

      No cavalry, no construct, very few flyers apart from the fell bats.

      Then we add :

      – Spiders
      – Crocs
      – Slimy tentacles
      – Leeches
      – Maggots
      – Poisonous giant spiky toads
      Giant mosquitoes
      – Rot flies
      Gargoyles ?
      – Sacrifice Altar

      And any possessed trees ?

      Lots of debuff. Lots of anti-movement (slimy stuff).
      Use terrain a lot to damage the enemy (possibly with some rule for extra Water or Forest on the table ?).
      Stuff like Fear, Mind Control.

      And pygmies.
      Which means the army gets a guerilla aspect very akin to the Saurians'

      Should we work out ASAW ?

      Background : Ashanti / Dahomey / Yoruba kingdoms are clearly a strong inspiration as they were the biggest and scariest slavers on the African coast, but we still have to understand why the Saurian city has a Bantu name then :D Maybe some other native jungle culture (not strong enough to get their own army) lives close by, with a Kongo language ?

      By the way, the Ashanti did not have vodoun, they have (well, had, since the Christians came and stole their religion) their own pantheon, with a more classical (or primitive) god of the Sky and goddess Earth.
      Dahomey and Yoruba on the other hand worship the same vodoun pantheon.

      Historically, those African countries of the « Guinean Coast » were just traditional farmer-craftsmen led by warrior or priest kings. Most of their trade happened with the Sahel countries of the North (that is, in T9A, the Koghi Empire), where they exported gold, kola nuts, ivory, slaves and other stuff.
      From the 15th century (which is T9A time), Europeans understood how to get there by ship. So the trade routes reoriented to the South as Europeans created trading posts on the coast. This caused the ruin of the Sahel empires. Also, Europeans encouraged slave-hunting that rapidly got an almost industrial extent, where all the different coastal kingdoms specialized only in that slave-hunting activity (and it has to be noted that this happened even BEFORE America was discovered !! the first massive import of slaves was to Portugal in the 15th century). Every gifted person was either enlisted as a warrior or taken as a slave. Soon there were no more farmers and craftsmen, only slaves, and products imported from Europe in exchange of slaves. Religion also became something much darker at the same time.

      So, this is kind of what I believe we could do with this new army, except we turn the « epic » and « fantasy » buttons ON.
      It is a new power emerged from the jungles to turn the whole of Taphria into slaves to be sacrificed or exported, encouraged by sea merchants, Dread Elves as well as Vetians.

      This means, I guess, they could also get advanced weapons from both these races – repeater crossbows and handguns/pistols ?
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Ghiznuk ().

    • We could take a totally new approach to vampires and stuff, where the evil Pygmy Sorcerer Tribes count as the root of all things occurring? It's fantasy, we could go nuts on this one (but keep it playable, hehehe).
      I would only keep bat swarms, great bats, zombies, skellies, ghouls and that's it.
      A totally new character section, featuring the reverend (high voodoo priest ;) ), evil pygmy sorcerer, nothing to be made into a bsb (banners can't be taken at all in this army as they have no use for them in the jungle but they could have some other tricks with banner like effects) and several other evil pygmy characters.
      No raising above initial numbers as it's not easy to find dead bodies in the jungle, everything gets eaten ;(
      The hereditary spell from VC must be taken over but we could add a second one that raises a slain enemy into a zombie version of itself, whoehahaha.
      Differnet types of poison could be taken in this army. An extra killy one where a hit causes a wound without AS. One where, when it caused a wound to the enemy, it creates mayhem, fear, paralasis, actually any effect some jungle plants or critter's poisons might cause on one's psyche or body :evil: , be creative . Some poisons should be rarer than others, naturally ;) .
      Nasty mosquito swarms that cause unwanted effects on the enemy (for gameplay i would suggest to take the effects from the "special poisons" to not overcomplicate things), not too sure how to get this model wise tho so it could be gone before it ever gets here...
      Croc men emerging from the waters, corrupted by the magicks of the evil pygmys, unarmed but with their bodies, poisons and thicker skinned than their lizardmen counterparts.
      Snake swarms!!!
      Small elite pygmy units that have an appear/dissappear trick in the vicinity of any terrain feature except hills, blowpipes (with or without the special poisons), the ability to use paired weapons (again with or without the special poisons) but no blowpipes then. Such a unit can never have scoring and if it's not on the board at the end of the game it counts as lost (thus a casualty).
      A giant jungle snake (maybe even godlike in the eyes of these guys), different from the one the Vanhu have (name suggestions?)
      I love the idea of the vampires from african folklore but i am a bit unsure where to place them except that they should be characters too but how big are they (infantry or large infantry?).
      Another option that could be explored is the taboo, not in it's original form but as a way to deal with the opposing army on the battlefield. Only one taboo can be taken, it has to be declared before deployment and it's effect would be the following: the thing that has been tabooed is rendered useless, limited to not standard equipment only (so you can't say plate armour for example but could pick optional equipment, an enemy artefact, enchanted weapon or banner etc...) The taboo ends when the character that issued it, is slain.
      An unholy shrine is also an option, boosting the range and/or power of spellcasters near it.
      I'm sure others have other ideas, let's throw it all together and see what comes out :muaha: :muaha: :muaha: :muaha:

      about pymy miniatures now:…ducts/tt531-pygmy-command…ducts/tt532-pygmy-archers…pygmies-of-the-lost-world (that one riding the giant ant!!! <3 <3 <3 might need to be creative to get it in the book :D )…ducts/da137-pygmy-archers…i-and-his-pygmy-bodyguard
      Others to be found but going to put a stop for tonight :whistling:
      Smashing skulls since 99
    • Giant Snake could be not poisonous but get Crushing / Grinding Attacks / Multiple Wounds instead.
      Like, Anaconda.

      Pygmies should definitely get characters, but let also standard humans be part of the game.
      Hm, interesting, that means we should also get units of standard humans, haven't thought about them yet :largegrin:
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • Pygmees should be human in form but not standard! They should be smaller, less athletic but vicious and fast (not in movement but the rest).
      As such, i would give them the base statline of any human but mov3, march6 and the agility of an elf. Unable to wield heavy weaponry and armour but gaining some protection through distracting and hard target, maybe combineable with masks/fetisjes etc.
      Smashing skulls since 99
    • Hot topic, it seems! :D

      Before I forget, do we know any VC player who would be interested?
      I will post something in the VC forum.

      For this one, I am keen to investigate what we can take as inspiration from the traditional religions.
      First, a disclaimer: I do respect Vodoun, Voodoo and Candomblé as real world religions, held in genuine belief by millions of people.
      You must have noticed that I altered the name: Vôdun, to show that it is inspired from, but not pretending to be any of these religions.

      These religions ahve the same origin, but in America, they have turned darker, due to the harshness of slavery, and the clichés are even more darker, being made by the non-initiated masters.
      Wikipedia in French is a bit more detailed than in English, not surprising given that Haiti, Dahomey and Togo are francophone. Click here for a translation in English.
      I am most interested in the clichés ( @Ghiznuk already mentioned Baron Samedi!).
      Very inspiring: the voodoo doll! :muaha:

      Otherwise, Zombies all over the places, headless chickens, human sacrifices, possession, drugs, animal skulls, walk on fire, spirits, possession, fetishes, talking with the dead, cannibalism, taboo...
      Note the high importance of twins.

      An inspiration for the African Vampires could be taken from selected Lwa (Voodoo) or Orixás (Candomblé), to replace the European-inspired Vetian Bloodlines. If I find the time, maybe I could search a bit.

      @Irondaemon, @Autumnus, are you with us?

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • I wouldn't give different bloodlines.
      In general the existing bloodlines draw on vampires from different countries – Von Karstet is more Sonnstahl, Blood Dragon is more Equitan, etc.
      Here we just have one line of Taphrian mangrove vampires, they can just have their own bloodline powers, but only one bloodline.
      That's my opinion anyway.

      In Ouidah in modern Bénin (which has nothing to do with Old Benin, just like modern Ghana and Old Ghana), there is a temple to mutant psyker children. Concretely, every child that would be born disabled was automatically considered a witch, able to communicate with spirits, and he/she would be closed in a special temple where people would come worship them.

      I don't think a distinction needs to be made between Lwa and Orixas, especially not in the game.
      Orisha is just the yoruba word for « god », Lwa is an American slave invention based on these and christian faith.
      I think we can just make up a new word for them in our world, or just use any English word to translate it, like « Spirits » or « Gods ».
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • Sounds great, all of it. I’ll let you take care of all the background and stuff. But I can list what I have done with my African Vampire Count as-army:

      Ghouls: Heresy miniatures ghouls. I call them cannibals.
      Skeletons: skeleton painted tribal warriors.
      Zombies: Various pygmies. I call them either pygmies or tokoloshes.
      Dire wolves: Wolves from Lotr or the hobbit, painted as hyenas.
      Ghasts: Monsterous infantry sized gorillas. From dust tactics.
      Spawns: GW original models, but converted to have hands instead of feet, and green stuffed fur and more of a chimp face.
      Varkolak. Big ars gorillas. I have three different kinds. One from reaper. The other two I think some sort or very limited stuff from private sculpters.
      Terrorgheist: Mierce miniature Chimera, and mierce miniaturs crocodile with big wings (From Empire gryphon maybe?)
      Ghosts swarms: ghost painted warriors, witch doctors and baboons. Ancestor spirits I call them.
      Other ghostly stuff: ghost painted witch doctors as banshees, and tribal warriors as the other fighty one.
      Elephant with a howdah as one of the big chariots.

      As characters I have witch doctors with snakes as necromancers, a few high hat guys as vampires casters (or necromancers), and big beefy tribal warriors as fighty characters.
      A palanquin with a chieftain on top as either black couch or cadaver wagon.
      Also a Raging Heroes manticore as a mount for someone.

      I think that’s it. Hope something helps.
    • It would be nice to have a VC player on the team but it raises one concern for me:
      I see this army going more down the lines of a mixed army where the raised ones have the role of tarpits and the real damage comes from the living pygmees and jungle critters. That is totally different from VC if you ask me and personally, i don't want to see an addendum to the VC book. I want to see a book that stands on it's own, with it's own playstyle and feel 'allthough some units/mechanics are the same or similar ;) .
      Smashing skulls since 99
    • Fair cooncern.

      Let's recall the goals. And there are two main ones.

      1. African various heritage.
      The first goal pursued in the thrad "It's time for Africa !" was to develop some AB based on the African heritage, rather than limited to the European heritage like most current AB. All the more that other tabletop games basically neglect Africa as well.

      Soon we established that there is no single "African civilization", no more than a single "European civilization" to speak of.
      Decision was made to take advantage of the presence in T9A's Taphria of several civilizations.
      T9A background provides already a rich choice:
      - Al-Qassar, KoE, UD and Hakim WDG auxiliaries north of the Great Desert
      - Koghi in the low Savannah
      - SA in the low Rainforest
      - Vanhu, DH and EoS' Vosenlanders on the high Mountains in the east.
      This matches closely the main classification of African various landscape and resulting civilizations: Mediterranean, Sahel, Rainforest, Rift (just missing the Indian Ocean islands).

      2. Compatibility with the 16 official factions.
      Noting the presence of KoE, UD, WDG, SA, DH and EoS, a second goal has been added:
      to give the remaining 10 official factions players a reason to develop a Taphrian army, though Auxiliary Books.
      These Aux Books could be either an authentic Taphrian native civilization, such as SA, or recent immigrants, such as KoE. There will be little work to do for the recent immigrants.

      It makes sense: stand-alone factions such as Koghi and Vanhu are risky to develop for players, as the models have no possiblity to count as any official army, therefore the players know that they cannot bring them in any competition. We tried as much as possible to make these two new factions as balanced as possible, so as to encourage local tournaments to allow them, but realistically, chances are low.

      We must also find ways for players to develop a Taphrian theme within official factions, which they will be able to play competitively with minimum modifications, as one of the 16 factions.
      This works the other way as well: it will serve also players already playing a faction and wishing to alter its gameplay and look.

      How does this apply to The Vôdun Vampires of the Mangrove?

      1st goal is to have an army reflecting the rainforest civilizations. I have no doubt that we will achieve that goal.
      Also, why to make this army evil, this is because there is no reason why Taphrians could not produce great villains.
      Note that in another AB, there will be also benevolent Pygmies, it just happen that we start with the evil ones.

      The other concern is, now that we identified the proximity with VC, to help VC players to do what @Irondaemon did, i.e. to develop an army wich conciliates best:
      - looks Taphrian, models and playstyle,
      - can be played officially as VC, with minimal changes.

      How best to achieve that second goal?
      I don't know yet.
      We develop a native civilization, so there is no background need to keep it close to the original VC.
      What is paramount is to use as much as possible units and models which could easily be played as authentic VC units.
      This does not preclude the use of different models and units, as long as those which cannot be easily converted into VC units remain as small as possible a minority.

      No problem to have a resulting ASAW different from VC, and a playstyle significantly different, but this should remain sort of Auxiliary Book, and it matters more to keep a reasonable compatibility than to develop the differences.

      I hope that it makes sense?

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • If we look at the Åskland book, which is like the blueprint for any other AuxBook, we see that half the models are taken from the WotDG book, and they add half new models.
      The Huskarls, the Shieldmaidens, the Jötun, are totally new models that give a new playstyle to the army, not mentioning adding the DE Kraken.

      So this is something more than just twisting a little bit the standard army list to give it a different flavour, like what happens for UD where we basically keep the same list but with only a few minor charac. and rule changes.

      So yes, this is an army with a totally new playstyle, undead + jungle guerilla.
      It'll be the first army in the game that includes undead without being 100 % undead. I believe the rules allow us to do so, even though i sorely miss the old Evocation spell that could work both on Undead and not Undead.
      And it means we'll have to be creative regarding the role of the General and Battle Standard.

      As a matter of fact, GW had developed its own Sylvanian auxiliary list at the back of the 6th edition Vampire Counts, that would be an actual Imperial army (crossbowmen, halbardiers…) + undead (a true Vampire « Count » army).
      Also, in the same book was the Strigoi army that included Tzigany (sorry, i meant « Strygany ») as auxiliary, non undead units of vampire cultists.

      So nothing new, i'd say ;)
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • So,
      What do we keep?

      -Bloodlines and their powers: out the window

      -Hereditary spell: a new one is needed as this is an army of mortals that do raise the undead but aren't themselves

      -Characters: Necromancer i can fit in a role (high voodoo priest), i have a bit more trouble with all other characters to fit them in a role within this book

      -Core: Zombies, skellies, ghouls, bat swarms, they all can have a place here

      -Special: Ghasts and great bats can stay. For the rest, i can't seem to find a flavourful reason to be in this book.

      -The suffering and swift death: i can work my mind around the varkolak being in this book but the rest, no...

      That's my vision, how do you guys feel about this? Once we have established what stays and what doesn't, we can go forward with the fun part (for me, at least :P ) : creating new stuff!
      Smashing skulls since 99
    • I think all characters have a reason.
      Necromancer / High Priest should be the biggest power, and have some fighting abilities himself ?
      Vampire is the killing combat guy, combined with Jungle Vampire aspects or bloodpowers.
      Barrow King replaced by Baron Samedi, some kind of uber zombie or flesh golem, very tough and grinding, very hard to kill, with a rule for recovering health maybe, and strong connection to the HighPriest.

      I can figure a place for the Wraith and Banshee, but yes, if we introduce new characters such as the Pygmee Shaman and Pygmee Warleader, etc., then there is really no more room for those.
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa