The Vôdun Vampires of the Mangrove

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    • I've decided the most fun way for me to do this is to just edit the book directly with my ideas. I'll let you know when it's done - feel free to incorporate or ignore my ideas as you see fit... as I will probably change a lot. As a VC player I think this is a great opportunity to address some shortcomings in the VC book instead of just copy/pasting them over. I'll attempt some of that. :) I apologize in advance if I delete someone's beloved ideas.

      I've tried to read through all 10 pages of this topic, but I think I missed a bit. I have a few questions:
      1) Is there a reason for not having a "ghost" category like VC? Just to simplify things?
      2) Why are pygmies so slow? slower than zombies? I like the idea of making them unique with odd adv/mar rates, but 3/7 is painful for an already very slow army.
      3) Independent vampires have no armour. If this is intentional, I can work with that thematically.. just want to make sure it isn't an oversight.
    • Glakthag wrote:

      I've decided the most fun way for me to do this is to just edit the book directly with my ideas. I'll let you know when it's done - feel free to incorporate or ignore my ideas as you see fit... as I will probably change a lot. As a VC player I think this is a great opportunity to address some shortcomings in the VC book instead of just copy/pasting them over. I'll attempt some of that. :) I apologize in advance if I delete someone's beloved ideas.

      I've tried to read through all 10 pages of this topic, but I think I missed a bit. I have a few questions:
      1) Is there a reason for not having a "ghost" category like VC? Just to simplify things?
      2) Why are pygmies so slow? slower than zombies? I like the idea of making them unique with odd adv/mar rates, but 3/7 is painful for an already very slow army.
      3) Independent vampires have no armour. If this is intentional, I can work with that thematically.. just want to make sure it isn't an oversight.
      Don't know about Ghosts… Are there so many ?
      As I understand, the ghosts in this army are all very limited (« 0-1 choice ») and more like independant characters than whole units.

      I don't mind the pygmie speed… they are small, after all.

      vampires… no armour… well, we are in Africa in a tropical mangrove, armour 1. is hot 2. doesn't allow you to scratch mosquitoes and bugs underneath 3. makes you sink in water 4. needs iron, that can't be mined in a mangrove 5. rusts

      Of course, they could have leather armour… or Innate armour (« Arm » characteristic).
      But well, don't forget that we described them as nothing more than weird mutant beasts (the Asanbosam, at least ; Bokono are sapient).
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • The 3 Orisha units are also ghosts, so it is equivalent to the VC book with 2 characters and 3 units.

      Goblins move 4/8 and Skinks move 6/12. Dwarves move 3/9. Small things are still fast :)

      I think Pygmies should march at least 8. I don't know the best solution, but it needs some thought I'd say (and play testing eventually).

      I see that the Asanbosam have no armour - like Strigoi. This is fine. Bokono have the silk enchantable armour - also fine. Independent have nothing. I think access to some protection item will be important if there is no armour - I'll address it in my edit.
    • Glakthag wrote:

      I've decided the most fun way for me to do this is to just edit the book directly with my ideas.
      :cheers:
      The latest Word source document is found here: the-ninth-age.com/community/in…ostID=1271549#post1271549
      Please download it and move on - first thing is to update the version number.

      I did try my best to reflect Voodoo lore, with some adaptations.
      There is no ghost that I would know in Voodoo, only spirits.

      Feel free to update as you feel fit, just provide us the explanations (so that we can ruin your plans).

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • I will be adding a new blood line: The Azde.

      bestiary.us/images/adze-illyustratsiya-yukhana-egerkransa/en

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adze_(folklore)

      Unfortunately the artist has not replied to my request to use the image, but I love the idea. Here's a preview:

      Display Spoiler

      Ancient Blood Power: Grave of the Fireflies (80 pts)

      Whenever an enemy model attacks and fails to hit the Vampire in close combat, that model immediately suffers an automatic hit, with Strength 3, Armour Penetration 0, and Flaming attacks, for each failed hit.
    • Nice.
      Very much appreciated to see you dig in African folklore. Also, Ewe are the right cultural region we want to illustrate by this book (ie., it's not Congo nor Tanzania).

      Although I would give those hits Str 4, to make sure it's useful ;)
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • Well I gave them distracting so there’s more hits, but maybe you’re right :D I’d rather buff now and nerf later.

      As for the region, I figured it is fantasy so I didn’t really limit myself. I found he Adze and Impundulu very interesting. In the end you can freely revert all my changes and I won’t be offended, as I just enjoy the creative exercise :)
    • Haha :)
      Yeah, sorry if I offended you, we just are super keen on making something that makes sense of African cultures rather than a pseudo-African mishmash. ;)
      Especially since part of the community got spooked when we started this project « It's time for Africa », because they assumed we could only handle it the wrong way.

      So, anyway, artifacts yeaaaaah
      I don't know where you should upload… I just use GDrive, and I never paid attention to what Calisson use, but probably the same.
      As long as we have access to your file it's fine :)
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • No offense taken :)

      Here is my change log (sorry it's so long) with my reasoning in red.

      Display Spoiler


      General Changes
      • Added Adze Bloodline, the firefly vampires. I used the Lamia portrait for now. I'm not an artist (or writer, sadly).
        • Because they are cool.
      • Improved [lexicon]Vampiric[/lexicon] across the board.
        • Vampiric (6+) is a forgettable rule many VC players dislike. Since the Vodun have little access to armour, I think it is fitting to give them all Vampiric (4+) to encourage close combat engagement and make the Vampiric rule more important/impactful. It also differentiates the army from VC, while being familiar.
      • Created Spirits and Special categories.
        • Mirroring VC requirements is good starting point for balance. Reaper is very strong in some matchups and too much is very RPS.
      • Moved the War Mask, Animal Skull, and Silk Armour to the Armoury.
        • To simplify and streamline things.
      • Added Fetishes as an item category (special artifacts). Pygmy Champions can take 1 Fetish.
        • The idea here is to have many cheap special artifacts that can be taken by Pygmy Champions, and the War Chief can take extra ones.
      • Added Swamp and Jungle abilities, and artifacts that can create them.
        • I think Homebrew is a good place to include the Lands of The Ninth Age, and since this army is "Green/Black" why not add Swamp and Jungle terrain
      • Reworked the Hereditary Spell to match the [lexicon]VC[/lexicon] book.
        • First reason is balance. 2D6 heals is too powerful on most units, so I introduced the Reanimated Value like in VC, which although I'm not in love with it, it is easy to balance.
      • Made all non-Pygmy units [lexicon]Undead[/lexicon] and Fearless.
        • This is the align the ASAW more with VC, and to highlight the difference between Pygmies and the Undead.

      Unit Changes
      • Vampires
        • Bokono Bloodline - Changed the mount to the Spider Ancient (see below).
          • I added the Spider Ancient to the army book, which is basically what the blood power changed the statue into.
        • Bokono Power: Paralysis Bite - Changed to target Characters and Single Models.
          • Even now I think it is too strong, but I didn't want to change it too much.
        • Added [lexicon]Light Armour[/lexicon] and Animal Skull options.
          • Some basic protection for independent vampires
        • Added more weapon choices.
        • Vampires are no longer Vodun Legends
          • I also lowered Vodun Legends to 30% from 50%.
      • Pygmy Priest
        • Made War Mask an optional item.
      • Pygmy War [lexicon]Chief[/lexicon]
        • Animal Skull option added
        • Replaced Unliving Shield with Fetishist
          • Unliving Shield is a mostly useless rule, no one wants their Wizard in CC. Fetishist adds some flavor. Plus the War Chief isn't even undead, so why unliving? :)
      • [lexicon]Mounts[/lexicon]
        • Added the Spider Ancient
        • Gave the Colossal Crocodile a smaller base size.
          • So we don't have two 100x150 mounts.
      • Pygmies.
        • Added Model Limits (0-30) for poison shots and AP10 poison.
          • I fear too much poison shooting and AP10 is too strong.
      • New [lexicon]Unit[/lexicon]: Pygmy Raiding Party
        • Slightly better Off/Def. Vanguard. BodyGuard. Scoring. War Mask + Shield.
        • I wanted a decent Pygmy option outside of Core, so I based it on Barrow Guards. Vanguard instead of the MW2 is a good thematic trade.
      • Crocodiles
        • Added Strider (Water, Swamp) and made ambushing in the water/swamp optional.
          • Requiring the ambush in the water is potentially a huge weakness.
      • Hearth Orisha
        • Added Wizard Conclave
          • Although maybe too strong, they have some interesting spell choices.
      • Reworked Tribal Oshina to be like Phantom Hosts, gave them [lexicon]Light Troops[/lexicon] and increased points a bit
        • There were too many strong reaper units in my opinion.
        • Removed Lightning spell, and gave Hearth Orisha access to Hand of Heaven instead.
          • Hand of Heaven is more like lightning than a fireball.
      • Village Orisha: Changed [lexicon]Wizard Conclave[/lexicon] to an upgrade
        • For consistency with other armies.
        • I still think the base size of this unit is strange and it is too similar to Hearth Orisha. Spectral Steeds (the inspiration for Village Orisha) are 25x50
      • Vampire Warriors
        • More models, Hatred, Blood Ties. Glass Cannons
      • Asanbosam Spawn
        • Atonomous, Strider (Forest), Better stat line
          • The direct comparison is Vampire Spawn. Asanbosam have lower Str and AP, but Strider and better Vampiric.
      • [lexicon]Giant[/lexicon] Bats. Renamed to Monstrous Bats. Made them [lexicon]Autonomous[/lexicon] and [lexicon]Vampiric[/lexicon].
        • Without Autonomous, they couldn't march with a vampire.
      • [lexicon]Giant[/lexicon] Snake. Renamed to Blood Python. Allow option to [lexicon]ambush[/lexicon] normally. Reworded and slightly changed Constrictor.
        • Constrictor setting attacks to 0 is too strong, and the wording was a bit vague.
      • Man Eating Tree. Increased movement.
      • Spider Statue. Increased movement. Smaller base size.
        • Slow moving models force a turtle playstyle.
      • Created Spider Ancient
        • Basically the Gargantula with minor differences and undead (not autonomous).
          • Fits the army theme and gives it some punch that I think it was missing.
      • [lexicon]Giant[/lexicon] Spiders: Renamed to Zombie Spiders.
      • They are the same size as Scuttle Spiders, so not very [lexicon]Giant[/lexicon] :D
      • Modified Cocoon to give -2 Adv, -2 Agi, and -1 Att, plus unit cannot overrun/post combat reform.
        • This unit will be nasty chaff, and I think the ability was too strong before.

      [/list]Artifacts
      • Simplified Sleeping Sickness and Vodun Doll.
        • I found them very complicated and a bit overpowered.
      • Slight changes to Taboo (X) and Fetish (X).
        • My attempt at balance

      • Changed the Wanga to add 1 HP per turn via [lexicon]Vampiric[/lexicon].
        • Was too powerful, in my opinion.

      • Added artifacts: gris-gris amulet, Seeds of Death and Seeds of Undeath, Putrid Potion.
        • I wanted a way to access Swamps and Jungles, and I wanted to try Corpse Explosion!
      • Added Veve of the Baron and Baroness.
        • More protection options for the expensive Vampires





      Word Docx (doesn't look good in google preview)
      drive.google.com/file/d/1vKHGM…_gOfDMod/view?usp=sharing

      PDF (looks better)
      drive.google.com/file/d/1hlaAv…TZaFKcDW/view?usp=sharing

      TLDR. I changed a lot of things that I thought were very over or under powered. I tried not to touch other things, and I made the army a bit more like VC for ASAW and balance reasons.

      I am still not satisfied with a few things, but I forced myself to stop here. I hope at least some of my ideas are acceptable, but I am serious when I say that I won't be offended if you undo it all and go back to 2.3.

      Some Lore:
      The Adze are as ancient as the Bokono, and were the first to master the ability to fully change form at will. As a Firefly, they can distract or surprise their victims, and find them when they sleep. The Adze were the first to bewitch the Pygmies, who are not by nature evil, and bring them to the cause of the Vampires.

      Cheers!
    • Nice to see the book in the hand of someone more proficient in gameplay. :)

      About Adze Bloodline, the firefly vampires and the choice of Lamia portrait
      I could work on that if you wish and try to make it more African.

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • 8o 8o 8o 8o 8o 8o 8o
      One « Like » is not enough on your hereabove post.
      That army in your hands looks just even more amazing.

      Really clever to make connection with Lands of the Ninth Age !
      Spiders are even cooler.
      Yeaaaah I have now visions of those big disgusting things in Diablo 2 when you get to the sewers under Kurast.
      Feral vampire on giant zombie spider is just yeaaaaaaah !

      You are giving those Vodoo vampires so much love !!

      About « different cultures », it's kind of true, but
      1. we don't need to add too many different options just for the sake of it, every bloodline needs to play a different role
      2. individual players can decide to make their own vampire « independant » and then give to them whatever name they want
      3. every option needs to be justified in our fluff.
      For example, I like very much that you reinforced the Vampiric rule for the Asanbosam, as they are meant to be the primeval vampires, thus their ability is even stronger.
      On the other hand, what would be the fluff justification for Adzé ? other that « It comes from Togo ». What would you suggest is their relation to Bokono and Asanbosam ? (in terms of kinship, I mean) – apart from that, your fluff rules !!

      I'm wondering about the « undead for everyone » though.
      I kinda liked the fact that we had a vampire army that was mostly alive, with just a few undead units.
      Like, the Cannibals who are meant to play the role of the Barrow Guards, but more feral, and alive.
      But yeah, undead spiders are so cool, so why not undead crocodiles, too :largegrin:

      Don't forget to have a look at the other books in our project when you're done with this one :thumbsup:
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • We decided deliberately to drop the "undead" rule for most units, given that the jungle environment would decay skeletons and corpses in little time. The zombies are not supposed to last long, nor the cannibals.
      Also, Pygmies and jungle animals are well alive.
      Mixing undead and living units in an army may create high internal complexity which results to be more a hindrance than anything for the player.

      - at least, so it appears for a non-VC player -.

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves