SE Community Magic Item Brainstorming for Full Army Book

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  • SE Community Magic Item Brainstorming for Full Army Book

    Hi all,

    It seems fairly common feedback from the SE community that many people are fairly happy with the way our units are designed now, but that our magic items could be have more broad application - many of them being situational to quite specific builds, characters, single use or situations.

    It leaves the question though, if we were to redesign items, which ones would we re-design, and what to exactly? bearing in mind some of the items we complain about (eg Hail Shot, Mist Walkers, Sacred Seeds) are actually quite iconic - what items are we actually OK with losing?

    What problems to do most leave to solve with Magic Items, and what are the smartest, most balanced ways to solve them?

    This is where the community's creativity could really be of some use.

    So rules of this thread:

    1) It's mainly just for fun, something could come of suggestions people make here but it's probably unlikely any specific idea would be used exactly as suggested, and even if it was it would likely be some time away.

    2) To make a magic item suggestion, you have to also nominate an item to replace - this might give us a good idea of what are the items the community is most ok with letting go.

    3) Try to be realistic. It's easy to come up with super powerful 'fantasy items' but a book full of them isn't great. Small, useful, cheap items are possibly even more useful than 12 versions of the Sword of Win.

    For easy readability I'd suggest suggestions take the form of:

    Item To replace: [Insert Name Here]

    [New Item Name]: [New Item Stats]

    Description / Explanation ...


    If we're lucky and friendly to them, perhaps even knowledgeable BLT or former BLT members like @Fnarrr might drop by to give us some thoughts about what different items might cost, or any unforeseen problems with items we might suggest.

    Having said that, gimme your best ideas for SE magic items!


    I imagine community members like @funkyfellow @Eastern Gate @Alexwellace @Iylankano @Chack @Wesser @Fleshbeast @Henrypmiller @Arrahed @nantuko @Serwyn (and many others) might enjoy making suggesting ideas

    Data Analysis

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Hachiman Taro ().

  • Replace: Bow of Wyscan or Lifeseed (though would prefer a new bow entirely)

    New: Bow of Penetration (couldn’t help it)

    Description: Sylvan Bow Enchantment. Shots fired gain Penetrating.

    Issues: would be priced for Pathfinder Kindred so way overcosted for anyone else. Maybe a tiered pricing system or Pathfinder Kindred is OUO?
    "The combination of lemon and habenero peppers was confusing to me. I will pay for this tomorrow i think." - Rosanjin Scholar, Iron Chef
  • Fleshbeast wrote:

    Replace: Bow of Wyscan or Lifeseed (though would prefer a new bow entirely)

    New: Bow of Penetration (couldn’t help it)

    Description: Sylvan Bow Enchantment. Shots fired gain Penetrating.

    Issues: would be priced for Pathfinder Kindred so way overcosted for anyone else. Maybe a tiered pricing system or Pathfinder Kindred is OUO?
    Yeah it's an issue with our bows that they tend to be only good for Pathfinder or not really good for them at all.

    I've thought about making the 'Pathfinder Bow' with multi shot baked in. Then the advantage for a Pathfinder is adding whatever the other effect is to Master archers, and the advantage to anyone else is getting the multishot and the other effect. But it seems like it would still be hard to get an effect / points cost that was fair value for both Pathfinders and non Pathfinders.

    Data Analysis

  • Hachiman Taro wrote:

    Fleshbeast wrote:

    Replace: Bow of Wyscan or Lifeseed (though would prefer a new bow entirely)

    New: Bow of Penetration (couldn’t help it)

    Description: Sylvan Bow Enchantment. Shots fired gain Penetrating.

    Issues: would be priced for Pathfinder Kindred so way overcosted for anyone else. Maybe a tiered pricing system or Pathfinder Kindred is OUO?
    Yeah it's an issue with our bows that they tend to be only good for Pathfinder or not really good for them at all.
    I've thought about making the 'Pathfinder Bow' with multi shot baked in. Then the advantage for a Pathfinder is adding whatever the other effect is to Master archers, and the advantage to anyone else is getting the multishot and the other effect. But it seems like it would still be hard to get an effect / points cost that was fair value for both Pathfinders and non Pathfinders.
    I did a quick and dirty calc on the additional wounds this would generate on a unit of HBE Spears (being the optimal target) and assuming prime conditions (Pathfinder Prince in close range, full 5 ranks, etc) Penetrating only results in ~3.5 additional kills. Heavy Cav take fewer obviously. Hence OUO for Pathfinder Kindred feels ok.


    One thing that just occurred to me: We saw negligible points drop for losing multi shot & Flaming on Pathfinders and none for the Kindred. From that perspective the bow should be priced quite cheap as it shows that the unit is not significantly priced on its damage output.
    "The combination of lemon and habenero peppers was confusing to me. I will pay for this tomorrow i think." - Rosanjin Scholar, Iron Chef
  • Replace: Sacred Seeds (do we need yet another forest? Only if our Hereditary changes again.)

    New: Glyph of <insert Deity name here>

    Description: Autohits directed at the Model’s unit must instead be directed as the model carrying this trinket.

    Allows us to tank pyro / stomps / impact hits etc while having a natural limiting factor based around a character’s wounds / saves / etc.

    Issue: Synergy with Glyph of Amryl for Cannot be Stomped, Willows Ward with AP0 for impact hits, Fireborn for Pyro wards.
    "The combination of lemon and habenero peppers was confusing to me. I will pay for this tomorrow i think." - Rosanjin Scholar, Iron Chef
  • Item to replace : Sacred Seed

    New item : Shroud of The Forest(banner) // Sacred Seed
    Effect : The bearer can cast Forest Embrace as a bound spell (4/8).
    One use only : At the start of any of your turn you can decide to activate this item, if you do so the unit count as being in forest (same effect as forest embrace) until the start of your next turn.

    Simple and nice i think, if the bound spell is deemed too much redundacy that part can be removed.


    Item to replace : Mist Walker Mirror

    New item : Banner of the Veil Walker // Mist Walker Mirror
    Effect : One use Only : Can be activated at the start of your movement phase, the unit can immediatly make a 15" move with the Fly rule (or ethereal plus one/two free reform if granting light troops is too much), the unit count as having marched.

    Still achieve a turn of good repositioning without teleporting


    In both case being a banner would allow greater flexibility but i understand that it could be seen as too powerful (and we would start to have too much banners)
  • New Mistwalkers mirror
    -Only use once, declare to use this before the bearer moves, the bearer and their unit have their march rate set to 12 and gain fly and loose scoring until the start of their next turn. The unit gains +2 to their aegis to a maximum of 4+ against ranged attacks until their next turn.

    Reasoning: it’s a new take on a few things we’ve already tried with the army, bringing the old hereditary back in spirit while keeping the mirrors flavour. The set value gives the spell a nice compromise between the mounted and unmounted units, providing a set benefit making pricing easier. I could see this being taken both offensively in Blade Dancers or Ranger units and defensively in archer bunkers.



    New Sacred seeds
    the bearer gains channel (1), bound spell forest embrace lower casting value version and can be measured from any forest on the board.

    Reasoning: I’d like to see the sacred seeds be our arcane item, acting similarly to the Necromantic staff of the Vampires. I love our new hereditary and the huge variety of niche effects it can have, but I don’t love it’s 18“ range and I don’t love the fragile wizard bunker being that close to my flanking units (the ones that need this spell), so this is what I’d like to see.

    Aha seems like me and Chack are in similar wavelengths :D

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Alexwellace ().

  • Replace: Sacred Seeds (mainly to avoid having to carry extra Forests of variable design around)

    With: Branch of the Living Forest

    Bearer may use Treesinging on any Forest not containing enemy troops ( because Forest surfing was an awesome thing)

    Modify: Mistwalkers Mirror (often impossible to use)

    To: When teleporting the unit enter the board immediately using the ambusher rule (country as having marched and losses Scoring if used after Turn X)

    No more problems of units being too big to fit in Forests or board with no extra forests. Now IT can always be used, as free Forest/hereditary can ensure we always have a Forest to teleport from
  • Remove: Sacred Seeds

    New: Sacred Seeds

    Effect: The bearer gains three tokens/seeds which can be used at any time during the battle with a maximum of one in any given phase of the game. On use of the Sacred Seed, the number of wounds received by any model (note not necessarily friendly model) is reduced by one.

    Wording would have to be improved but I’m looking for our version of the old HBE Hereditary, but as we don’t have a strength in magic I have decoupled it from the Veil tokens and magic phase.
    "The combination of lemon and habenero peppers was confusing to me. I will pay for this tomorrow i think." - Rosanjin Scholar, Iron Chef
  • Really like some of these ideas!

    Some of the community feedback seemed to be that we have too many situational and especially one use items, and not enough that can easily (and preferably cheaply) bolt onto a character for general combat use - especially defensively / relating to our Avoid Hits strength - since our characters are regarded as a bit too Glass Cannon / Blendy.

    So with that in mind how about something like:

    Replace: Lifeseed Feathers

    New Item: Wind Sprite (Elven Cloak Enchantment)

    The bearer may choose to exchange Lightning Reflexes for Distracting at the start of any round of combat.


    Replace: Drums of Cenyrn

    New Item: Spite Spirit (Artefact)

    Enemy models suffer -1 Str for each would caused (before saves) to them by the bearer in the current round of combat.

    Data Analysis

  • Remove: Sacred Seeds

    New: Sacred Root Seeds

    Effect: The bearer's non-cavalry unit gains Ambush rule, but may appear only in Forest.

    This ability comes from old Drycha special rule and helps to overcome our weak point of scoring far from SE deployment zone. Best be implemented to Rangers and Spearmen, but may help Dancers (without scoring though). It is risky, so may not be too expensive, but will opress enemy to be aware of possible appearance during deployment and first turns.

    If it appears too weak during tests, then additional rule may be implemented, that the Forest where unit appeared and stays become scoring for SE. It will boost Dancers choice.
  • Hachiman Taro wrote:

    Really like some of these ideas!

    Some of the community feedback seemed to be that we have too many situational and especially one use items, and not enough that can easily (and preferably cheaply) bolt onto a character for general combat use - especially defensively / relating to our Avoid Hits strength - since our characters are regarded as a bit too Glass Cannon / Blendy.

    So with that in mind how about something like:

    Replace: Lifeseed Feathers

    New Item: Wind Sprite (Elven Cloak Enchantment)

    The bearer may choose to exchange Lightning Reflexes for Distracting at the start of any round of combat.

    That's a great idea (depending on what elven cloak ends up doing). In practice however it needs to be very cheap (I don't think 10 points is too cheap) because our mounted characters exist ONLY to hit hard and guys on foot will either don't be in CC or will take Hunter's Honour.

    There's a small nice for an Elk Lord with Paired weapons who will still hit on 2+ against DWS4 and below, but that's about it


    Replace: Drums of Cenyrn

    New Item: Spite Spirit (Artefact)

    Enemy models suffer -1 Str for each would caused (before saves) to them by the bearer in the current round of combat.


    [i]A duelist item? Since it's "before saves" it might get expensive, but since it works against monsters as well I could see myself using it[/i]

    Aemir wrote:

    Remove: Sacred Seeds

    New: Sacred Root Seeds

    Effect: The bearer's non-cavalry unit gains Ambush rule, but may appear only in Forest.

    This ability comes from old Drycha special rule and helps to overcome our weak point of scoring far from SE deployment zone. Best be implemented to Rangers and Spearmen, but may help Dancers (without scoring though). It is risky, so may not be too expensive, but will opress enemy to be aware of possible appearance during deployment and first turns.

    If it appears too weak during tests, then additional rule may be implemented, that the Forest where unit appeared and stays become scoring for SE. It will boost Dancers choice.
    This is largely current Mistwalker's Mirror, with all of it's problems...
  • SE Community Magic Item Brainstorming for Full Army Book

    ID say its more anoying that they only Work in niche situations and are never brought because of IT(and the pricetag estimated on that one time IT might actually do something). Would be nice with a bit more "Meat and potatos" items that are always somewhat usable disregarding others factors such as terrain and other more random factors.

    Sendt fra min TA-1021 med Tapatalk
  • Fnarrr wrote:

    I was under the impression people were unhappy with the high % of OUO items in the SE book? Somewhat surprised to see more suggestions for OUOs.
    Can't speak for anyone else, but what irritated me was that our OUO's are really expensive (65-70 points basically means a hero taking no other items) and really situational or random.

    I don't mind the many OUO's, but they need to be situational/cheap or reliable/expensive for me to go for them
  • As above, 1 use items are fine as long as they will benefit me in every game I play. For example Banner of the Restless Company is a good example of a OUO item, since there will never be a game that extra movement will not be helpful. It might not reach its full potential, but itl'll never be bad.

    My version of Mistwalkers mirror is essentially this banner, but adds fly and looses scoring (this second part is big, as scoring is one of the bigger reasons to take restless company) and gains +2 aegis vs ranged for a turn. That will be useful in every game I think, either on Blade Dancers or Sylvan Archers.
  • Fnarrr wrote:

    Alright, so lets work from the assumption that Restless Company is a good, balanced item.

    With that in mind, how much do you think your version of MIstwalkers that gives Fly and the equivalent of an unstoppable spell off is going to cost?
    Considering that it is 3' less than Relentless banner (really only +2 March rate for infantry and a strict nerf for anything else), doesn't enable last-minute Scoring and isn't a banner (therefore needing a character)?

    If it was more than 30 points I'd never use it (but that's just me)