What we can do to get new players – no whining, only concrete proposals and inspiring stuff ^^

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    • Yup only my brother just traded another friend his tau army for saurians! Ha that was cool. Only I hated facing lizzies regularly back in 6th and now they're BAAAAACK.


      Back on topic ya know what we really need is pics of what each entry IS for cryin out loud. Preferably actual sample models from someones badass army but artwork is fine too. Right now I have no clue what to imagine for plenty of the unit entries out there. About 99% of why I build a unit has to do first with the models which then get the creative side going.
      That sparks a look into the rules and stat lines for what I need to satisfy my personal criteria which then leads to some math on loadouts (if options still exist- often criteria 1), match ups and unit sizes including preferred unit widths etc, and lastly I branch out into their synergy with other elements within the army particularly character support. All those tick the right boxes and I'm brewing. Right now I'm missing major components to brewing.

      Thats over 15 years doing this. Now imagine a new guy without past fantasy gaming experience.. they're dead in the water right now.



      So, to reiterate we need 'get started' portals for our armies with inspiring videos of model ranges or short excerpts from fluff, and samples of what each entry actually is, preferably by category just like other games do.
      AVOIDANCE FAILS 28% OF THE TIME FOLKS. -SE
      Undying Deathstar Construction Inc.
    • Stygian wrote:

      Back on topic ya know what we really need is pics of what each entry IS for cryin out loud. Preferably actual sample models from someones badass army but artwork is fine too. Right now I have no clue what to imagine for plenty of the unit entries out there. About 99% of why I build a unit has to do first with the models which then get the creative side going.
      That sparks a look into the rules and stat lines for what I need to satisfy my personal criteria which then leads to some math on loadouts (if options still exist- often criteria 1), match ups and unit sizes including preferred unit widths etc, and lastly I branch out into their synergy with other elements within the army particularly character support. All those tick the right boxes and I'm brewing. Right now I'm missing major components to brewing.
      So 1.
      We're revamping the site to make it easier to get a grasp of what every army is.
      2. We don't give you the models, its upto you to find cool models and make them suit T9A - it requires a little more work, but thats what you get with more creative liberty.

      I think with the website revamp that is in the works (no ETA, but its definetely in the works to be more 2.0/newbie/sales friendly), there will and must be some efforts to improve connecting gamers new and old to building and making new armies.

      Head of Lectors

      Advisory Board

      Quick Starter Team

      "...take a step back and remember that we are playing a game where we roll dice and move little people around the board."

      - Grouchy Badger

    • kisanis wrote:

      Stygian wrote:

      Back on topic ya know what we really need is pics of what each entry IS for cryin out loud. Preferably actual sample models from someones badass army but artwork is fine too. Right now I have no clue what to imagine for plenty of the unit entries out there. About 99% of why I build a unit has to do first with the models which then get the creative side going.
      That sparks a look into the rules and stat lines for what I need to satisfy my personal criteria which then leads to some math on loadouts (if options still exist- often criteria 1), match ups and unit sizes including preferred unit widths etc, and lastly I branch out into their synergy with other elements within the army particularly character support. All those tick the right boxes and I'm brewing. Right now I'm missing major components to brewing.
      So 1.We're revamping the site to make it easier to get a grasp of what every army is.
      2. We don't give you the models, its upto you to find cool models and make them suit T9A - it requires a little more work, but thats what you get with more creative liberty.

      I think with the website revamp that is in the works (no ETA, but its definetely in the works to be more 2.0/newbie/sales friendly), there will and must be some efforts to improve connecting gamers new and old to building and making new armies.
      1. Perfect.

      2. Connecting new players to armies is exactly whats needed.
      As for models, maybe this needs a new approach? I mean I think every current player can appreciate this policy. But its not conducive to new players. If theres a general consensus by the designers and/or then the model company's of what a unit generally looks like (or exactly looks like) then it needs to be associated with the unit entry. From there players will always one up those.. take a look at the skeleton pirate army that was recently posted here.. sharkolaks and shark cavalry etc.

      The cognitive challenge players need the rules and those have been worked on tirelessly. The immersive players which is what most new players start out as need the definition and a bit more inspiration.
      AVOIDANCE FAILS 28% OF THE TIME FOLKS. -SE
      Undying Deathstar Construction Inc.
    • You can't really tell what a unit is definitely is without rolling back on some of the bases T9A is built on, meaning giving the player legitimacy to make their own creative choice as far as miniatures go.
      However showing a gallery suggesting what miniatures could be I think both feeds creativity and keeps the possibility open to players who like other alternatives.

      Way to start: the-ninth-age.com/lexicon/inde…th-age-miniature-library/
      I'm sure this could use some cleanup and update. If you're invested in this aspect, please note that this is a wiki open to editing by anyone. :)
    • Stygian wrote:

      2. Connecting new players to armies is exactly whats needed.
      As for models, maybe this needs a new approach? I mean I think every current player can appreciate this policy. But its not conducive to new players. If theres a general consensus by the designers and/or then the model company's of what a unit generally looks like (or exactly looks like) then it needs to be associated with the unit entry. From there players will always one up those.. take a look at the skeleton pirate army that was recently posted here.. sharkolaks and shark cavalry etc.
      nope - we cannot play favourites.

      What we can do is improve upon the existing model wiki - where we link people to mini companies.

      We cant say "XYZ co makes minis that best suit WDG" but IMO we can say "XYX makes models that could make a cool WDG army"

      We have a bunch of information already available, but its poorly laid out and hopefully we can reform/reorganize it to fill the needs of newbies better.

      Post up some 'how to articles' for beginners on the new website - cool 'buy lists' from the community. We just cant openly declare favorites.


      Shlagrabak wrote:

      Way to start: the-ninth-age.com/lexicon/inde…th-age-miniature-library/
      I'm sure this could use some cleanup and update. If you're invested in this aspect, please note that this is a wiki open to editing by anyone.
      Yes it most certainly does need a lot of love. So please feel free to help clean that up!

      Head of Lectors

      Advisory Board

      Quick Starter Team

      "...take a step back and remember that we are playing a game where we roll dice and move little people around the board."

      - Grouchy Badger

    • First of all, I have to mention that I got inspired by this thread:
      T9A design - why I'm leaving

      I'm not saying that this is the best solution, but it's a possible solution nonetheless...
      It would be really interesting to see an experimental game that's basically a mix and match of both AoS and T9A.
      Maybe it could start out as a quick project and then be improved accordingly over time if there's enough interest (basically what GW did with AoS).

      So it could basically feature most of the current rules and list building principles of T9A, along with some stratagems, special rules, randomness and the simplicity of AoS, topped with an additional layer of realism. Make a realistic game with a lot of customization options and fun special rules. Take the best of both worlds and then add some more icing on the cake.

      The idea to make T9A simpler just won't do because the new AoS core rulebook has only 20 pages, even then 50% being art and covers.
      In terms of simplicity both concerning rules and how easy involvement in the hobby is, AoS straight out wins.

      And the bases?
      Easy, switch to round movement bases and use the base sizes that GW's current products come with. :D
      That way you'll also make entering the hobby easier, as re-basing won't be a concern.

      Even in the worst case scenario, it could at least serve as some sort of a bridge between these two systems.
      Check out my wargaming blog - The Forge of War
    • I think some common ground can be found between the « we don't give models » and the « give illustration of each model » approach.

      Already in the WotDG FAB, every unit entry has some illustration and then is accompanied by a description often giving alternative looks, especially for the Karkadan which basically could also be giant lions, tigers, etc. See also the illustration that goes with the flayers, there are two very different mounts on the same illustration of the same unit.

      Then, it could be possible to add, say, at the end of the book, a gallery not necessarily with every single model representing each unit, but with 2-3-4 different choices among the coolest/cheapest on the market, like 1 GW, 1 AoW, 1 LKM, 1 KoW, not necessarily the same sampling for every unit entry, i mean, but that'd be the idea. And when available, show some the coolest conversions from actual players for that unit, with a list of where the different models and bits came from.

      So the new player can both get inspired by different sources and we are not privileging one over the other, while still having the door open for other stuff and encouraging creativity.
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • I think T9A should get the top few manufacturers and use their models in books and promotional materials. E.g. Orc Wyvern from Mantic, Exalted Herald from creature caster, etc.

      There is no sanity in being 100% fair but also dead because you didn't have any official model photos.
    • There could be a modelling section in the books. Or in the Ninth Scroll. Or a modelling sub-page.

      I remember when I started playing Warhammer, those pages in the books and White Dwarf were extremely helpful to me. Just "How do you paint a model", then followed by a few examples of painted models, so you could see different ways to paint the same model. And they had conversion articles in the White Dwarf, too, where they showed people making simple custom models from bits.

      We should have something similar. Just a page along the lines of "These are the dwarf warriors of player X. The rank and file soldiers are the Dwarf Grunts from model company Y, with shields from model company Z. The standard bearer is Urgrim Ironarm from model company Q, while the unit champion is Thorbjorn Thunderfist from company V."

      Especially for things like monsters, that could really show off some diversity. Show pictures from three or four different players and what they chose, then give a short quote from each one as to why.
      Player A: "For my vermin daemon, I wanted something sleek and menacing-looking, so I chose this model from this company".
      Player B: "Since my army is taking the Roman theme and running with it, I went with this rat model, but gave it a Roman helmet and made some Roman armor from strips of plastic carton, to make a giant in centurion armor."
      Player C: "I fell in love with this model from this company. It is heavy and menacing, and with the crouched posture, it really looks like it would be lurking in the shadows."
      A summary of all proposed ideas from the VS LAB brainstorm thread

      Collection of all offcially posted Vermin background

      "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
      Après le monde - le gris; après le gris - le monde de nouveau."
    • Eldan wrote:

      There could be a modelling section in the books. Or in the Ninth Scroll. Or a modelling sub-page.

      I remember when I started playing Warhammer, those pages in the books and White Dwarf were extremely helpful to me. Just "How do you paint a model", then followed by a few examples of painted models, so you could see different ways to paint the same model. And they had conversion articles in the White Dwarf, too, where they showed people making simple custom models from bits.

      We should have something similar. Just a page along the lines of "These are the dwarf warriors of player X. The rank and file soldiers are the Dwarf Grunts from model company Y, with shields from model company Z. The standard bearer is Urgrim Ironarm from model company Q, while the unit champion is Thorbjorn Thunderfist from company V."

      Especially for things like monsters, that could really show off some diversity. Show pictures from three or four different players and what they chose, then give a short quote from each one as to why.
      Player A: "For my vermin daemon, I wanted something sleek and menacing-looking, so I chose this model from this company".
      Player B: "Since my army is taking the Roman theme and running with it, I went with this rat model, but gave it a Roman helmet and made some Roman armor from strips of plastic carton, to make a giant in centurion armor."
      Player C: "I fell in love with this model from this company. It is heavy and menacing, and with the crouched posture, it really looks like it would be lurking in the shadows."
      Care to write up a hobby article?
      or talk with @Henrypmiller about your homebrew list?

      You may not have the time or discipline (your words, not mine!) to be on staff, but it would be great to get some stuff into the scroll!

      That goes to everyone.

      Head of Lectors

      Advisory Board

      Quick Starter Team

      "...take a step back and remember that we are playing a game where we roll dice and move little people around the board."

      - Grouchy Badger

    • Eh, sure. About what, exactly?

      Also, fair warning, all my models are GW models, as far as I'm aware. Certainly my Skaven. Often considerably kitbashed, but still all GW.

      Also, I'm a dreadful painter. One reason I play monster armies is that I can't paint faces and no one cares if my banners look messy. I'm off the "Drybrush everything, then wash it brown" school of painting.
      A summary of all proposed ideas from the VS LAB brainstorm thread

      Collection of all offcially posted Vermin background

      "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
      Après le monde - le gris; après le gris - le monde de nouveau."

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Eldan ().

    • Eldan wrote:

      Eh, sure. About what, exactly?

      Also, fair warning, all my models are GW models, as far as I'm aware. Certainly my Skaven. Often considerably kitbashed, but still all GW.

      Also, I'm a dreadful painter. One reason I play monster armies is that I can't paint faces and no one cares if my banners look messy. I'm off the "Drybrush everything, then wash it brown" school of painting.
      read through the 9th scroll - especially the last 3 issues.

      No one has issues with showcasing their collections of GW minis. I also follow that school of painting (especailly for such a horde list).

      Maybe write up about homebrew, writing something fun and cool, and how T9A gives you an avenue for world building etc...

      Write about the hobby in general, and how T9A still gives you an avenue for it, even if you don't always agree with the direction.

      Head of Lectors

      Advisory Board

      Quick Starter Team

      "...take a step back and remember that we are playing a game where we roll dice and move little people around the board."

      - Grouchy Badger

    • I'm not in the hobby anymore, though. I think that would feel dishonest. My last game was nearly 18 months ago, now. I just hang around here because there's rats.
      A summary of all proposed ideas from the VS LAB brainstorm thread

      Collection of all offcially posted Vermin background

      "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
      Après le monde - le gris; après le gris - le monde de nouveau."
    • I started just 2 years ago with 5 of my friends and we're mostly 27, and we came mostly with WFBknowledge prior. But our youngest member not, and he's 21. He also didn't start with us, he came a bit after. Allow me to chip in my 2 cents.
      The game has high commitment bar, both money and time wise, but it's kind of the point. We all love it, you either have it in you or not.
      He wasn't drawn to this thanks to awesome rules or anything like it, but more so to the community aspect of the game. Spendig hours with your friends having a blast, that's what hits the spot imo.
      It's hard to sell from boardgames / geek clubs, or maybe we don't have the latter in Poland, but it can spread through your friends. He joined us during one of our first battles and jus got drawn into this, so my advice is:
      try to invite firends on your "private" games, and by that i mean not a tournament, just a regular home match with a friend. Preferably a mutual friend. Show him( don't kid ourselves, havent seen a women plaing ever) the social aspect of it,a time to play a game you love with a friend, share a beer, catch up.
      :O&G: + :DH: = A Waaagh! Hold
    • The project needs to look serious, it needs to create feeling that it is something that will survive, evolve and will provide content for years to come.

      If I am not mistaken, all the team members are working for the project in their free time. How much of this free time and enthusiasm will the team have in the following years?

      Unfortunately, we don't even know when the gold 2.0 will hit, when the books will be redone and what will be after that. Stasis with occasional points readjustments?

      Reading the statements like "we don't need to create any hype" is the same like when Kirby said "we don't need to do any market research". If such ignorant attitude brought even the biggest player in the market to decline, what will be the result to us?

      The problem is that many people here think that t9a is a big thing. But unfortunately it really isn't. It was maybe in time when whfb went bust, but 3 years passed, AoS 2 dropped, kow 2.0 is pretty stable but we are still in beta.

      It reminds me of those cool sandbox indie MMORPG with open beta access which promise to to bring something revolutionary to the genre, but they never make it past beta (or sometimes early alpha).