King Slayer

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  • Kovlovsky wrote:

    Cam wrote:

    You’re still denying your opponent use of his characters attacks though so still a benefit.

    For devils advocate - why should a sword to kill characters it’s in combat with get a bonus for characters who aren’t in the combat?

    Also, if I’m not mistaken, if you challenged them to a duel and they accept with the character out wide you would get the plus one for that character. @Eisenheinrich might correct me though.
    The thing is that, very often, the enemy character seeing his attacks denied is a mage who would likely have a single attack at low strength anyway.
    Furthermore, if the enemy is in a wide formation, it's often possible to place your characters in such a way where you can't be in base to base contact with more than one character at the same time while still being able to attack your unit, making the weapon rather useless.

    I always found Hero's Heart to be more useful overall. To do something, King Slayer needs to have at least one enemy character in the enemy unit, which isn't always the case, and to be trully better, it needs to have 2+ characters clumped together. Each time you kill one, it becomes worse. Hero's Heart is generally all around better as it is slightly cheaper, can be used as efficiently against characters and rank and file models and, except in very specific situations, generally gives more bonus to the character in question. King Slayer is so situational that it's not very useful.
    which is why its infuriating that some mook can hang out on the end of a unit thats IN COMBAT and cant be counted because hes not touching.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Cam wrote:

    You’re still denying your opponent use of his characters attacks though so still a benefit.

    For devils advocate - why should a sword to kill characters it’s in combat with get a bonus for characters who aren’t in the combat?

    Also, if I’m not mistaken, if you challenged them to a duel and they accept with the character out wide you would get the plus one for that character. @Eisenheinrich might correct me though.
    Because its a load of horse crap. The character is IN a unit that is IN combat, yet it doesn't count for kingslayer because his base isnt touching your bloody unit? Its retarded!
    he/she isn’t in the combat therefore you don’t get the bonus that relies on him/her being in combat. I don’t see how that is retarded?
  • Cam wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Cam wrote:

    You’re still denying your opponent use of his characters attacks though so still a benefit.

    For devils advocate - why should a sword to kill characters it’s in combat with get a bonus for characters who aren’t in the combat?

    Also, if I’m not mistaken, if you challenged them to a duel and they accept with the character out wide you would get the plus one for that character. @Eisenheinrich might correct me though.
    Because its a load of horse crap. The character is IN a unit that is IN combat, yet it doesn't count for kingslayer because his base isnt touching your bloody unit? Its retarded!
    he/she isn’t in the combat therefore you don’t get the bonus that relies on him/her being in combat. I don’t see how that is retarded?
    Because it makes the weapon rather useless like I explained at length in my last post which you seem to have completely ignored. At this point, it might just better to replace it by something useful if the RT isn't going to make it more usable.
    Armies:


    • Orcs & Goblins
    • Kingdom of Breton.. ah! I mean Equitaine! ;)
  • Kovlovsky wrote:

    Cam wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Cam wrote:

    You’re still denying your opponent use of his characters attacks though so still a benefit.

    For devils advocate - why should a sword to kill characters it’s in combat with get a bonus for characters who aren’t in the combat?

    Also, if I’m not mistaken, if you challenged them to a duel and they accept with the character out wide you would get the plus one for that character. @Eisenheinrich might correct me though.
    Because its a load of horse crap. The character is IN a unit that is IN combat, yet it doesn't count for kingslayer because his base isnt touching your bloody unit? Its retarded!
    he/she isn’t in the combat therefore you don’t get the bonus that relies on him/her being in combat. I don’t see how that is retarded?
    Because it makes the weapon rather useless like I explained at length in my last post which you seem to have completely ignored. At this point, it might just better to replace it by something useful if the RT isn't going to make it more usable.
    Comparison to heroes heart is only good for some armies though. If your character is more than s4 base, heroes heart doesn't give a strength bonus.

    Mainly I dont rate Kingslayer because I don't come across many death stars these days.
    Probably the Least Useless Player in the World - International Herminard Poll 2018
  • It's true that Hero's Heart is less useful for armies that have characters with S5. However, even for these armies, King Slayer is too situational to be taken anyway.

    Because even if the enemy has a death star with a character wall, there is no garantee that you will be able to deploy your own death star in a place where both will connect because of how the deployment works. So many conditions needs to be met at the same time for King Slayer to pay off that it's generally better to go with other less situational items.
    Armies:


    • Orcs & Goblins
    • Kingdom of Breton.. ah! I mean Equitaine! ;)
  • I understand your post, like I said I’m being devils advocate. A sword called “king slayer” that kills characters not getting a buff for a character not in combat makes sense.

    Ok that makes it situational but it’s not unbecoming to the name (which I assume was chosen after the design mind you).

    It’s very useful if your meta has deathstars though. Plus most dwarf players would hate seeing it in a list. But yeah if you want consistency go for heroes heart.
  • Cam wrote:

    I understand your post, like I said I’m being devils advocate. A sword called “king slayer” that kills characters not getting a buff for a character not in combat makes sense.

    Ok that makes it situational but it’s not unbecoming to the name (which I assume was chosen after the design mind you).

    It’s very useful if your meta has deathstars though. Plus most dwarf players would hate seeing it in a list. But yeah if you want consistency go for heroes heart.

    Cam wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Cam wrote:

    You’re still denying your opponent use of his characters attacks though so still a benefit.

    For devils advocate - why should a sword to kill characters it’s in combat with get a bonus for characters who aren’t in the combat?

    Also, if I’m not mistaken, if you challenged them to a duel and they accept with the character out wide you would get the plus one for that character. @Eisenheinrich might correct me though.
    Because its a load of horse crap. The character is IN a unit that is IN combat, yet it doesn't count for kingslayer because his base isnt touching your bloody unit? Its retarded!
    he/she isn’t in the combat therefore you don’t get the bonus that relies on him/her being in combat. I don’t see how that is retarded?


    Or we can do the logical thing and count it towards the amount of characters in the enemy UNIT. Because it is pants on head levels of retardation to have a UNIT in combat but the character is not included in kingslayer because he just so happened to be on the end, and the charge maximization saved him. Wouldn't a sword called kingslayer want to add more attacks in order to cut a path to the enemy characters? Wouldnt it make sense to make the UNITS into combat despite base to base contact? I mean its absurd and they want to bellyache about why Heroes Heart is so overused when these kinds of things keep the other weapon enchantments a purely situational thing. Why spend the points on kingslayer when you run the risk of being AN INCH short of the enemy character?
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • duxbuse wrote:

    So for characters that dont need to be in the front rank, Cuatl / Vermin bsb et al. Does that mean that kingslayer does nothing?
    By the rules, I dont think it does.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • well it means you can only use the sword when the enemy character in question can actually participate in the fight. It would be a bit too strong to get the bonus for the sword coming from enemy characters that can't even swing with their attacks.
  • Morgan_Treeman wrote:

    well it means you can only use the sword when the enemy character in question can actually participate in the fight. It would be a bit too strong to get the bonus for the sword coming from enemy characters that can't even swing with their attacks.
    But at that point the weapon becomes so situational that it borders on the edge of absurdity. It comes to the point of why it is so rarely taken when compared to Heroes Heart. The weapons main allure is gutted.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Grouchy Badger ().

  • Cam wrote:

    I understand your post, like I said I’m being devils advocate. A sword called “king slayer” that kills characters not getting a buff for a character not in combat makes sense.

    Ok that makes it situational but it’s not unbecoming to the name (which I assume was chosen after the design mind you).

    It’s very useful if your meta has deathstars though. Plus most dwarf players would hate seeing it in a list. But yeah if you want consistency go for heroes heart.
    You might not have played it or not remembering it, but the current "King Slayer" is a direct copy of Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition "Sword of Anti-Heroes". They both do the exact same thing, the T9A just gave it a much better name. So, the conceptors of the item are the ones who wrote the 8th edition book. If my memory is good, it was Matt Ward and Phil Kelly. So it's an holdover of the original game.
    Armies:


    • Orcs & Goblins
    • Kingdom of Breton.. ah! I mean Equitaine! ;)
  • I just consider it a plus 1A +1 S
    And anything beyond that is just nice.
    Then its fine
    and I still believe; Light infantry should fight and shoot in 3 ranks, FREE command groups for EoS units. Imperial Guards should have weaponmaster and both parent and support, and that halbardiers should wear heavy armor. Brace for impact should be changed to, or there should be an extra order: " Have at THEM!" The unit gain battle focus.
    For Sunna and the Emperor!!
  • I think it is just galling that you don't get bonuses for all the characters in the opponents army. Just because your opponent hides his characters in some bunker far from combat I don't get bonuses I paid points for? No wonder Hero's Heart is better. I mean the sword is called King Slayer after all, by buying it your opponent's general should just die.

    The sword was one of my favourites back in 8th edition but as deathstars seem to have gone out of fashion so has it. Its rules make sense, but it is lacklustre as in many games it does only amount to +1 stats some of the time. Maybe a points reduction would let it see more play. Maybe it could do with a redesign. Maybe this thread should be in the Suggestions or General Discussion.

    Overall though I still like King Slayer. It's a way to combat deathstars (for when the do appear) and it takes a little effort to make it worth it. Makes it more interesting than a straight up buff.
    Need some inspiration? Check out my plog: Sam's Painting Saga
  • I would be far better if the enchantment simply added the amount of enemy characters in the unit to its X value than enemy characters touching the unit in base to base contact.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!