King Slayer

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  • Mercenary Armies wrote:

    Mockering?
    No. I'm asking: why the Kingslayer doesn't function like I want? Can you answer me please? Or i have to tag any single GD?

    They are in the enemy army. It has to function like this for the sword sake
    You are not adding an alternative view point to the conversation. What youre doing is trolling.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • Grouchy Badger wrote:

    infamousme wrote:

    Damo wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Damo wrote:

    You're arguing that the item ought to work the way you see it; that they way it has been set up is doesn't make sense.

    I (and I presume others) see there were at least 2 options during design, the way it is and the way you think it should be, and both were valid options at time of design. That the design team didn't go your preferred way doesn't mean its wrong. Given the choice between a) a 60 point item that is affected by everything in contact with the items unit, and b) an 80 point item affected by everything in contact with a unit that is in contact with a unit that is in contact with the item.

    They went with a), you think it should have been b). But theres not invalid with a).
    The item out to work in a logical sense HURR DURR LOGICAL IN TABLE TOP lets avoid that argument, the unit is in combat, all characters should be counted in "combat" for the sake of the weapon.
    But the characters aren't in combat.
    @Grouchy BadgerNot sure what you actually look like, but I had a picture of you face palming after reading this.
    The point being is that if a characters unit is in combat, he's joined to that unit, he can't voluntarily leave the combat as his unit is In Combat. The character should count as in combat with the enemy unit. Why this isn't the case is beyond me.

    Also, it shouldn't be a choice between a 60 point item as is or an 80 point item if changed. The item is too expensive for what it does anyway due to its situational-ness.

    Allow me.

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Mercenary Armies wrote:

    Mockering?
    No. I'm asking: why the Kingslayer doesn't function like I want? Can you answer me please? Or i have to tag any single GD?

    They are in the enemy army. It has to function like this for the sword sake
    You are not adding an alternative view point to the conversation. What youre doing is trolling.
    Dude, you've been giving in this thread, so don't get all thin skinned when someone gives it back.
  • matrim wrote:

    On a side note a weapon that gives additional attacks strength and ap for each enemy charecter would be rather cool. Would cost an arm and a leg but would definitely be fun.
    Would it a be a bit too meta-dependent? I know in ours we don't get a lot of character heavy deathstars. I cant think of a single game it would be worth it.

    Also I presume you are still talking per combat, not across the board? I could see an item that the bonus stacked per enemy character in total, but the benefit per character would have to be small.
  • Damo wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    infamousme wrote:

    Damo wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Damo wrote:

    You're arguing that the item ought to work the way you see it; that they way it has been set up is doesn't make sense.

    I (and I presume others) see there were at least 2 options during design, the way it is and the way you think it should be, and both were valid options at time of design. That the design team didn't go your preferred way doesn't mean its wrong. Given the choice between a) a 60 point item that is affected by everything in contact with the items unit, and b) an 80 point item affected by everything in contact with a unit that is in contact with a unit that is in contact with the item.

    They went with a), you think it should have been b). But theres not invalid with a).
    The item out to work in a logical sense HURR DURR LOGICAL IN TABLE TOP lets avoid that argument, the unit is in combat, all characters should be counted in "combat" for the sake of the weapon.
    But the characters aren't in combat.
    @Grouchy BadgerNot sure what you actually look like, but I had a picture of you face palming after reading this.The point being is that if a characters unit is in combat, he's joined to that unit, he can't voluntarily leave the combat as his unit is In Combat. The character should count as in combat with the enemy unit. Why this isn't the case is beyond me.

    Also, it shouldn't be a choice between a 60 point item as is or an 80 point item if changed. The item is too expensive for what it does anyway due to its situational-ness.
    Allow me.

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Mercenary Armies wrote:

    Mockering?
    No. I'm asking: why the Kingslayer doesn't function like I want? Can you answer me please? Or i have to tag any single GD?

    They are in the enemy army. It has to function like this for the sword sake
    You are not adding an alternative view point to the conversation. What youre doing is trolling.
    Dude, you've been giving in this thread, so don't get all thin skinned when someone gives it back.
    (edited by mod)

    A. changed to become less situational
    b. Price changes in order to reflect its situation with its current rule set.

    While changing the kingslayer rules would be the better of the options, I actually find a pt change to be fine, despite my true desire of Kingslayer getting rules to lessen the shenanigans that arise in its use.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • Damo wrote:

    matrim wrote:

    On a side note a weapon that gives additional attacks strength and ap for each enemy charecter would be rather cool. Would cost an arm and a leg but would definitely be fun.
    Would it a be a bit too meta-dependent? I know in ours we don't get a lot of character heavy deathstars. I cant think of a single game it would be worth it.
    Also I presume you are still talking per combat, not across the board? I could see an item that the bonus stacked per enemy character in total, but the benefit per character would have to be small.
    A weapon that counts characters simply on the field would be too powerful and would punish character heavy armies. It would also just be weird since balancing that item would be a headache if not worse than Kingslayer. If you go up against an army with ONE character then the point value of the item is just chucked out the window.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • 6 pages of just going in circles, eh? :P

    I think the item is fine. I don't think it's really meant to be taken as a good counter, though- it's meant to exist in the game so that overly character-thick death stars are discouraged.

    Because if there is a character-deathstar meta on the rise, then suddenly the item will gain extra value for only being 60 points, and thus the character-deathstar meta is curbed a bit since there's this item to pick apart dudes right there on the cheap.

    That's how I see it, anyway!

    Like a nuke, it's meant to be a deterrent- not actually used!
  • Squigkikka wrote:

    6 pages of just going in circles, eh? :P

    I think the item is fine. I don't think it's really meant to be taken as a good counter, though- it's meant to exist in the game so that overly character-thick death stars are discouraged.

    Because if there is a character-deathstar meta on the rise, then suddenly the item will gain extra value for only being 60 points, and thus the character-deathstar meta is curbed a bit since there's this item to pick apart dudes right there on the cheap.

    That's how I see it, anyway!

    Like a nuke, it's meant to be a deterrent- not actually used!
    Well sir currently its not. You can game the rules purely on accident or chance.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • Alzam wrote:

    A fair question was asked and an answer kindly provided by Sir_Joker. @Stunt can you please kick this thread out of Q&A (and into suggestion) ?
    This is true. However my next question is will a point change be considered? Due to reasons etc etc listed above.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • Squigkikka wrote:

    I think it's working rather well, but I guess it depends on the context you view it in! Units with 2+ characters are rare in my experience, and seldom do I see units with even two fighty characters in them. That's more than acceptable to me, especially since 1 fighty lord is not so hard to kill.
    In my context, and in a few times where they've done it on accident, you can deny kingslayer for a couple rounds of combat if your unit is wide enough. Its the base to base contact rule that really kerfuffles it.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Squigkikka wrote:

    6 pages of just going in circles, eh? :P

    I think the item is fine. I don't think it's really meant to be taken as a good counter, though- it's meant to exist in the game so that overly character-thick death stars are discouraged.

    Because if there is a character-deathstar meta on the rise, then suddenly the item will gain extra value for only being 60 points, and thus the character-deathstar meta is curbed a bit since there's this item to pick apart dudes right there on the cheap.

    That's how I see it, anyway!

    Like a nuke, it's meant to be a deterrent- not actually used!
    Well sir currently its not. You can game the rules purely on accident or chance.
    Well there are also no super heavy character filled deathstars going around... Coincidence?

    I think the weapon is fine. If the enemy characters can attack the wielder or his unit the sword should give a bonus, otherwise no. There are some cases like damsels and rat BSB that can be passed because from the second rank they only have 1 attack anyway.
    It's okay, it has frenzy.

    Just Flank It © KoE - Tactics 101
  • This is purely anecdotal but when I was trying my lamian vampire with this sword, who can force people to duel to ensure the bonus I still never made use of the bonus over 2 seperate singles tournaments. As I was stuck fighting champions and then my unit would crumble. Or the characters deathstar would avoid the vampire (like an elf deathstar just shooting and avoiding) or finally there was so few characters in the enemy army that it was useless anyway, as the vampire only fought non hero units(This is by far the most common option).

    So baring all these options when would this sword ever be valuable. Like I get there is magic christmas land where you get +3S, +3A, +3AP but across 100 tournament games I don't think it would ever happen.

    The more realistic option is that you get +1S, +1A, +1AP, but as @Grouchy Badger has pointed out I probably cheated with the item because I didn't realise that there was this huge loop hole in the way it was worded. So the 1 time that it actually would have helped thinking back, officially it shouldn't. Doubly so if the opponent had also know the wording and could have engineered the situation to nullify the sword.

    In short RAW I believe the sword to be far to niche, it only sort of worked on the vampire cause with even mundane weapons a vampire is passable.
    #freekillerinstinct
  • duxbuse wrote:




    So baring all these options when would this sword ever be valuable. Like I get there is magic christmas land where you get +3S, +3A, +3AP but across 100 tournament games I don't think it would ever happen.
    There was that time I caught Trickett with his pants down and got +4 attacks, +4 strength and +4ap by getting into his crusher character unit ;) . (Also woulda been super useful against Team DUI lists at BiV)

    Re cost. Generally speaking KS goes on a character you want fighting other characters - so its fair to say it's basically +1 s, a and ap in MOST situations where you havent misplayed (or using your character in a way against his design ie against R&F only). Compare to Touch of Greatness which is +1 s and ap with a cap on weapon + for 45 points. Id say for an extra 15 points kingslayer is worth it. And I think ToG is generally fairly costed.
    Probably the Least Useless Player in the World - International Herminard Poll 2018
  • Squigkikka wrote:

    I think it's working rather well, but I guess it depends on the context you view it in! Units with 2+ characters are rare in my experience, and seldom do I see units with even two fighty characters in them. That's more than acceptable to me, especially since 1 fighty lord is not so hard to kill.
    I tend to play 3 in my deep watch to pick up the slack. King Slayer would be a pain for me.