Hombrew Sylvan Elves Full Army Book

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    • Hombrew Sylvan Elves Full Army Book

      Hi All!

      Over the last year I have been tinkering with creating my own Sylvan Elves army book as a creative outlet and for personal use. I have nearly completed the endeavor and I decided to share the results with you fine folk! It has been an slow evolution that is based on the wonderful work our rules team has done over the last year with the book as well as a whole bunch of the super neat ideas submitted by the community in the SE general forums and modified to fit into the internal balance of this homebrew. Points cost for the more radical changes and brand new units are more than likely way off, I tried to keep things as balanced as I could but my own personal biases likely popped into the book without my realization. I took the liberty of replacing some of the less inspired names (in my own opinion) with those found primarily in Celtic folklore, though I took some inspiration from other cultures as well (See the spoiler tab for Wiki links to many of these inspirations). I added Kindred and Seasonal themes throughout the book for hobbyists to further specialize their armies and tied each kindred to a particular path of magic, elven god, and season.

      PDF file uploaded to: Drop Box (last updated; September 26/2019)

      The cycle of Seasons, Magic, & Kindreds. This has been edited to reflect newly revealed background material
      Display Spoiler

      Spring - Druidism - Amyrl - Dreamseer Kindred

      Summer - Shamanism - Cadaron - Wild Hunter Kindred

      Autumn - Witchcraft - Cenyrn - Blade Dancer Kindred

      Winter - Evocation- The Phantom Queen - Forest Guardian Kindred

      Night/Day & the changing of the seasons - Cosmology - Sura & Cyma - Tuath Dé


      Models for new units/upgrades
      Display Spoiler

      Tuath Dé:
      Tuath Dé Spring Aspect - Raging Heroes Syl-iriah
      Tuath Dé Summer Aspect - GW's Orion (OOP)
      Tuath Dé Autumn Aspect - Privateer Press's Lord of the Feast
      Tuath Dé Winter Aspect - Mierce Minatures Skaadi, Moraine Sorcerer

      Treefather Ancient upgrade:
      Creature Caster 1
      Creature Caster 2
      Mierce Minatures - they have many suitable models beyond this one

      Changeling:
      Whatever you currently use for a Shapeshifter Kindred model


      Storm Roc mount:
      Privateer Press
      Reaper Bones - Still pending being released to the general public after a successful Kickstarter

      Sprite Swarms:
      Reaper
      Various Sprite bits from GW's Sylvaneth & Wood Elves kits

      Cŵn Annwn:
      Mierce Minatures
      Atlantis Minatures
      Shieldwolf Minatures

      Thornweaver Chariot:
      I am not aware of any models currently in production but a kit bash using whatever you use for Briar Maidens and a chariot would be quite simple, for instance:
      GW's Sisters of the Thorn + GW's Tiranoc Chariot



      Links to Wikipedia entries for inspirations behind some of the new units/names


      I hope you enjoy the read,

      Cheers!
      A Sylvan Elves Homebrew Full Army Book - last updated September 26, 2019

      The post was edited 27 times, last by funkyfellow ().

    • Whoa, lots of cool ideas in there, cool avatar of nature, kindreds for wizards, withcraft.
      Would definitely like to read the rationale behind some choiches.

      Some question/considerations/else :
      - In the druid entry it's written wizard adept when it should be apprentice
      - A mandatory kindred for the druid is not a bit limiting ? Also that makes the "base" cost of a standard druid 180 points, which for a wizard apprentice are bit too much, i suggest to switch a bit of the base cost on the "combat" kindred that can make use of the improved stats.
      - How would work the prothean magic on the pathfinder druid ? It consider also the paths that you could gain by kindred ? because normally you only have druidism
      - The Rock sweep attack probably shouldn't work on fearless unit
      - Why the price for the sylvan lancers increased ? New synergies that i missed ?
      - The forest eagles are way too good for their price, Str5 Ap2 Hard target and court of the wind are very strong rules
      - Why defense 2 for the rangers ? i get that parry cover everything but paired weapons, but why ?
      - Interestin idea for the Sylvan Sentinels but i think that the price is too hig for something outside core, the upgrade shadow stalker cost waay too much, for a shooting unit ambush is a nerf
      - The pathfinders should have paired weapons or not ?
    • Thanks for taking a gander Chack! Even though I spent two weeks proof reading and editing more mistakes keep popping up, it's amazing what a fresh set of eyes can catch.

      - Druid entry definitely has a typo

      - Pricing the Druid was tricky, by giving it added combat potential it runs the risk of overshadowing the Chieftain, but your point is definitely valid about non-combat druids. The idea is the Dreamseer fulfills that role, but an apprentice Dreamseer is likely overpriced.

      - Protean Magic on the Pathfinder only gives Healing Waters from Druidism and Forest's Embrace. The idea is to capture the feel of a RPG "Ranger" class, I resorted to limiting the spell selection for the Druid due to the Pathfinder Kindred being really good at avoidance and I worried unrestricted access would make it an auto-include in most armies. This was also inspired by the brief time a Pathfinder Chieftain could take a Magical Heirloom & Wizard Crown.

      - Thematically the Storm Roc's sweep is to represent it knocking things over and disrupting a unit's formation, even if your fearless it takes discipline and order to form up again. Mechanically with many armies having Fearless across the board I didn't want to have a situational rule for one of the Roc's primary purposes.

      - The Sylvan Lancers received Parry at no loss to any other stats/rules. This was to fit in with the "Avoiding Hits" army strength and help differentiate them further from Wild Huntsmen. Now they are basically mounted Forest Guard.

      - I changed the Eagles early last year and kinda forgot to go over them again. Your totally right the extra model cost should likely go up to around 70pts/model.

      - Def 2 on the Rangers is a Typo, it should be 5. It's a relic left over from when I was experimenting with making them a sort of dismounted Wild Huntsmen unit.

      - Sylvan Sentinels were priced based on a few factors (it was one I struggled with). Sylvan Archers are 25pts/model. Sentinels gain Paired Weapons, Parry, Light Armour, & Poison compared to them. So I costed it at 7 pts extra due to the unit not occupying Core. The upgrade to Shadow Stalkers gives them Hard Target & Light Troops powerful additions to a ranged unit that I valued at 5 pts/model due to the loss of scoring. Then I valued ambush at 3 pts/ model. If you compare the cost of 10 Shadow Stalkers to 10 current Sylvan Sentinels /w upgrades they are quite close in cost. Now the unit isn't the most efficient shooting unit in this book, but that's a role for regular archers & Pathfinders. I considered adding an effect to the Banner of Forgotten Paths to help units arrive earlier or more reliably but I didn't want to make a complicated item more complicated and I also worried I would be treading to close to Beast Herds territory.

      - I was worried the change to Sylvan Blades would be confusing. Sylvan Blades is now an attack attribute that can apply to paired weapons, Hand Weapons, & Light Lances (basically replacing Forest Walker for elven units). I removed the paired weapons from Pathfinders and lowered their Def to 4 to make room for Sylvan Shroud. Now they are purely focused on shooting while the Sylvan Sentinels are our hybrid CC/shooting unit.


      Thanks for posting your observations! I will try and fix the mistakes when I get the time tonight,
      Cheers!
      A Sylvan Elves Homebrew Full Army Book - last updated September 26, 2019

      The post was edited 3 times, last by funkyfellow ().

    • Was just thinking this...

      Spring - Druidism - Amyrl - Pathfinders
      Summer - Shamanism - Cadaron - Wild Huntsmen
      Autumn - Witchcraft - Cenyrn - Blade Dancers
      Winter - Divination - Nyb - Forest Guard

      I think it would be more suitable if Druidism is the path related to summer and Shamanism for spring.
    • Bogeyman wrote:

      Hi! Great work on this book, really like most of the changes :) just wanted to know why you made the blade dancers more expensive? Now they don't have S4 (which I can understand a little bit, they're "just" elves even if they are elites) but you also removed Paired Weapons so they don't ignore Parry anymore.
      Dance of Whirling Blades now gives +1 Strength as well as still giving +1 attack, its only when using Dance of Biting Wind where they lost a point of Strength (Since Dance of Parting Mists currently reduces strength, and Dance of Bedevilments was re-worked into an avoiding hits dance for this homebrew). They then gained +1 to their base Aegis Save through Talismanic Tattoos which I felt warranted a slight points increase. I rolled the stats for paired weapons into the base stats of the Blade Dancers primarily because it felt weird having them limited to Off 5 because of paired weapons as well as many of us with models for them have a mix of spears and great weapons modeled onto them as well as paired weapons. The loss of the ignores parry rule was a casualty of this change, but given now that Blade Dancers can alternate between two defensive dances and have a better base Aegis Save I felt this helps prevent their points cost from ballooning.

      The end result is hopefully a Blade Dancer unit that is still very close to what we love while making the Dances of Cenyrn rule more interesting for the Blade Dancer Kindred as well as the new Shadow Dancers unit.

      Kdownunder wrote:

      Was just thinking this...

      Spring - Druidism - Amyrl - Pathfinders
      Summer - Shamanism - Cadaron - Wild Huntsmen
      Autumn - Witchcraft - Cenyrn - Blade Dancers
      Winter - Divination - Nyb - Forest Guard

      I think it would be more suitable if Druidism is the path related to summer and Shamanism for spring.

      That'd be super cool as well, the idea present in the homebrew was based on the Wild Hunt beginning during the summer equinox, but that was simply because it was traditionally so in previous settings. I am unsure of what time the Wild Hunt is supposed to take place in the various European myths, so spring may well be more appropriate.

      Cheers!
      A Sylvan Elves Homebrew Full Army Book - last updated September 26, 2019
    • funkyfellow wrote:

      That'd be super cool as well, the idea present in the homebrew was based on the Wild Hunt beginning during the summer equinox, but that was simply because it was traditionally so in previous settings. I am unsure of what time the Wild Hunt is supposed to take place in the various European myths, so spring may well be more appropriate.
      I was anticipating that fluff might be the reason behind it. And in the north at least spring is towards things like; rejuvenating, transforming, wild growing, mating, raw forces of nature (melting waters) etc..
    • Updated the Homebrew to 2.1.0 (see the link in the first post of thread)

      This updates purpose was to bring further definition to the new options added, adjust points, clean up rules, increase scoring options,and add new ideas the community has presented since the original posting.

      The main goal of this homebrew is to create an army of "tricksy" elves and "spooky" spirits based on primarily Celtic mythology, this update hopes to pursue those themes further. I am considering adding flavor text to each unit entry as well as post a summary for the reasoning behind each option presented in this homebrew for those who may be interested (this has proven to be quite time consuming, I hope to have it ready sometime this summer).

      I hope you enjoy the read,
      Cheers!
      A Sylvan Elves Homebrew Full Army Book - last updated September 26, 2019
    • Very cool. Looks like a lot of thought went into this, well done.

      It’s maybe only a bit much that everyone can be a wizard? :D
      Moreover, I consider that the Seven Sins should be destroyed as an army background.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Mahlzeit: Sorry my bad - only the Druid paths change with the respective kindred. Again, nice work. I’d be interested to see if this could work as a base for the FAB process and if it’s the direction the ACS would look into. ().

    • A lot of things to review, nice choesive vision.

      Some technical consideration :
      - If a forest moved with tree singing would end up on a unit or another terrain it "jumps over" it like a fleeing unit ?
      - Consider a different name for sylvan blades, like elven accuracy or something similar, right now is confusing
      - Say in the character options that you must chose a kinded, then make the lower costing kindred a 0 pts option and add the cost to the base cost of the character
      - Banner of forgotten paths should read "R&F only" in the requirements, it would be easier to understand.

      Design consideration :
      - Love the obligatory kindreds for everyone, and love even more the kindreds for druids, the upgrades that give sinergy with the unit are the best, imho there should be something like that in nearly every army indipendently of asaw
      - I prefer the current version of spirit of the wirlwind (this one is sligtly more powerful) and i don't feel that we need a great weapon enchant
      - Good division on melee/shooting enchantments
      - Night Mother's kiss is nice but a bit swingy
      - Hail Shot effect is spot on, maybe too cheap
      - Nice touch on icon of Mist
      - Glyph of shadow gives you an interesting decision between armor and avoiding hits, i just wonder if it good enough on his own
      - Shroud of the ancients cost a bit too much considering that the Aegis is against non magic only, 80 would be fairer i think
      - Horn of the wild hunt is too good for his price
      - The Tuath Dè could use some trimming to keep the cost down, a single model with just Hp5,Re5,5+/5++ at 800+ cost is going to die horribly most of the time, also his spell selection should be less good, right now every couple of spell is just gold
      - The changeling would benefit more from vanguard/scout than from spawing from forests i guess, also loading on too many ambushers that don't have to roll to appear is not a good idea, otherwise he is nice, you could consider to give him +1 Str and +1Ap to give him more freedom with the equip, ofc that would raise his cost and the cost of the throwing weapons
      - Nice idea the devastating charge on the eagle, maybe the eagle cost for the druid is a bit too much
      - Nice unicorn, sad that it is avaliable only to a dreamseer though, i don't like druidism
      - Love the storm rock as our "dragon" but he could use some fat trimming to keep the cost down, he is overall less though and more expensive than a dragon, same power level in the end if you make good use of his movement ability i guess, but having some elements that require less finesse is not bad

      Will do the unit analysis later, and maybe add some other consideration for chars
    • Would you like to comment on the fact that now the chars have lost elven cloack, the +1 armor on forest guardian and gained the chance to choose silvan shroud or talismanic tattos to replace light ?
      There are a lot of implication about the survivability/protection of our chararacters that you surely thought about.

      About the core :
      - Forest guards : i think that they need more a mobility oriented upgrade (like the one you did on the forest guardian char) that a fighty one, i like the saethala for the bg perspective, but i don't like it from the rule perspective
      - Sylvan Archers : Nice and clean, the light armor is a bit off on them but it works mechanically, imho they don't need sylvan blades, i would give them it alongside paired weapons with a specific upgrade (like 3 point/model) if you think they deserve some melee capability (i think an option would be cool)
      - Sylvan Lancers : Str4 Ap1 base with the possibility to chose between light lance and paired weapon while retaining 4+ armor is pretty strong for a core unit, i can see them working pretty well, but i'm not sure that it's right for the army to have a similar troop in core.
      - Syphls : Cool, i like them
      - Heath riders if more than 7 : interesting move to take them out of direct core to leave only scorers, other than that i think that giving them the option between scout and vanguard is unnecessary, vanguard is thematic and works well with them, imho no need for more option

      Will try to analyze the rest later.
    • Thanks for the analysis, Its a huge help to get such detailed feedback!

      Chack wrote:

      A lot of things to review, nice choesive vision.

      Some technical consideration :
      - If a forest moved with tree singing would end up on a unit or another terrain it "jumps over" it like a fleeing unit ?

      Following the rules for Ghost Step it would be force back in to its last legal position. Also Ghost Step does not allow models to be moved through units, only terrain.

      - Consider a different name for sylvan blades, like elven accuracy or something similar, right now is confusing

      I wanted to keep the name as a homage to the current rules but I totally understand this concern. There are a couple of names that come to mind that could represent this rule; Ghost-Touched, Faysteel, or Mithril Blades.


      - Say in the character options that you must chose a kinded, then make the lower costing kindred a 0 pts option and add the cost to the base cost of the character

      I thought about this as well but decided to leave the prices as is for an easier comparison to the current rulebook

      - Banner of forgotten paths should read "R&F only" in the requirements, it would be easier to understand.

      Noted, I will add this to the next update!

      Design consideration :
      - Love the obligatory kindreds for everyone, and love even more the kindreds for druids, the upgrades that give sinergy with the unit are the best, imho there should be something like that in nearly every army indipendently of asaw

      Thanks! The idea is an army can choose an Elven General and have more options in the movement phase for elven units or choose a Sylvan Spirit General to give the spirit part of the army more flexibility.

      - I prefer the current version of spirit of the whirlwind (this one is sligtly more powerful) and i don't feel that we need a great weapon enchant


      It was something I was on the fence about as well, my main two gripes with the current version is its in constant competition with Heroes Heart and this Homebrew adds another source of Lethal Strike to characters (Wind Rider Kindred) making it a bit redundant on the current Spirit of the Whirlwind. The addition of Great Weapons was to encourage some build diversity, each base item has situations where it would be better than the other.


      - Good division on melee/shooting enchantments


      Thanks! I feel the current book has a bit of bloat here and this was my chosen solution.


      - Night Mother's kiss is nice but a bit swingy


      I decided to leave this one in cause I liked the idea of having an enchantment with Poison, its price may be a little on the high side.


      - Hail Shot effect is spot on, maybe too cheap


      Pricing is always tricky, what do you think would be more appropriate for this effect?


      - Nice touch on icon of Mist


      I hope it isn't to much when combined with the other anti-magic options this Homebrew presents.


      - Glyph of shadow gives you an interesting decision between armor and avoiding hits, i just wonder if it good enough on his own


      Since Talismanic Tattoos replaces your armor its main competition is with the other 2 armor enchantments in this book. It is designed to be a cheap defensive item to support the Changeling in its assassination duties, to be paired up with the Duskspear on a Chieftain, or add to the defense of a Lord Level character carrying the Harp of Winter or the Drums of Cenyrn.


      - Shroud of the ancients cost a bit too much considering that the Aegis is against non magic only, 80 would be fairer i think


      The basic Sylvan Shroud gives a 5+ Aegis vs Magical Attacks, and when combined with Distracting from the item it gives quite the powerful defense against the majority of models out there. But it could be tad high, since this is a Homebrew I try to err on the side of caution when establishing points costs.


      - Horn of the wild hunt is too good for his price


      The goal was to keep it as a cheap utility item, I admit to not having much of an inkling on how to price Terror. Perhaps Fear would be more appropriate for its points cost?


      - The Tuath Dè could use some trimming to keep the cost down, a single model with just Hp5,Re5,5+/5++ at 800+ cost is going to die horribly most of the time, also his spell selection should be less good, right now every couple of spell is just gold


      One of the reasons for its high price is when used with the rest of the army to block line of sight (Kestrel Knights/Eagles) and overload the opponent with mobile threats the model can project quite the large threat zone. The only way I can think of giving it a large points drop would be to drop its spells and Wizard Adept.


      - The changeling would benefit more from vanguard/scout than from spawing from forests i guess, also loading on too many ambushers that don't have to roll to appear is not a good idea, otherwise he is nice, you could consider to give him +1 Str and +1Ap to give him more freedom with the equip, ofc that would raise his cost and the cost of the throwing weapons


      This reworks goal was to turn the model into an sylvan flavored assassin, this homebrew already added some more vanguard options throughout the book and I feel it would be too much if the Changeling also had it. By having the Changeling as a sort of Damocles Sword it opens up some interesting mind games with Tree Singing and the board position of the Hunters Quarry. The other Ambush options the army has access to is the Banner of Forgotten Paths and up to two units of Shadow Guard Sentinels, I hope it doesn't infringe to much on a traditionally Beast Herds play style.


      - Nice idea the devastating charge on the eagle, maybe the eagle cost for the druid is a bit too much


      Court of the Wind on the Forest Eagles makes a Windrider Druid on an Eagle quite the attractive option I believe, which I hope is accurately reflected in the points cost.


      - Nice unicorn, sad that it is avaliable only to a dreamseer though, i don't like druidism


      A Wild Hunter Druid can also take an Alicorn (Sylvan Unicorn) as a mount.


      - Love the storm rock as our "dragon" but he could use some fat trimming to keep the cost down, he is overall less though and more expensive than a dragon, same power level in the end if you make good use of his movement ability i guess, but having some elements that require less finesse is not bad

      It does have +1 Attack and Devastating Charge (+1 AP, Lethal Strike) over the current Dragon as well. Combined with an Aegis Save and Hard Target I believe those advantages necessitate the 80 pts difference (The Sweep vs Breath Attack is a bit of a wash in my eyes). Often Dragons die to ranged attacks instead of combat, and armor is little protection against most threats a Dragon faces. That being said the Storm Roc could use maybe a 5+ armor save for its current price point.



      Will do the unit analysis later, and maybe add some other consideration for chars


      Awesome! I look forward to it!

      Chack wrote:

      Would you like to comment on the fact that now the chars have lost elven cloack, the +1 armor on forest guardian and gained the chance to choose silvan shroud or talismanic tattos to replace light ?
      There are a lot of implication about the survivability/protection of our chararacters that you surely thought about.

      In regard to Forest Guardian Characters; they have been turned into a more generalist character choice. Their primary defense now is avoiding hits through combining Parry from Sathaeala with Distracting from the variety of options this homebrew adds. Being able to access a Special Save outside of the Special Items allowance (at the cost of having a normal suit of armour) aids in this direction away from armour saves. The homebrew added a slew of new defensive options for characters to take advantage of, and while it no longer allows characters with armor greater than 3+ (excluding mithril essence) it makes up for it in other ways.

      An example of some builds this homebrew allows:

      Chieftain: Battle Standard Bearer, Forest Guardian Kindred, Wayseeker, Spear, Talismanic Tattoos, Gylph of Shadows, Duskspear - 420 pts



      The model has Defense 8 with Parry & Cannot be Stomped and an Aegis of (5+) & Armor 0. If it manages to wound a model it gains Distracting, in most cases this means it is being hit on 6's and when combined with the hereditary spell those hits would have to be re-rolled. While attacks that auto-hit or hit on set values would counter this build, it is quite survivable in the majority of cases (characters that are good in all cases are usually very expensive). Additionally this model could take a mount to increase its mobility and survivability even further.

      Forest Prince: General, Forest Guardian Kindred, Wayseeker, Great Weapon, Sylvan Shroud, Shroud of the Ancients, Spirit of the Whirlwind, Horn of the Wild Hunt - 495 pts


      A little bit easier to hit than the Chieftain version but has better saves and isn't reliant on wounding with the Duskspear to have Distracting. The model packs quite the punch in combat and aids the surrounding units complete charges, combined with a mount or Ranger-captain its a very mobile fighty support General.





      About the core :
      - Forest guards : i think that they need more a mobility oriented upgrade (like the one you did on the forest guardian char) that a fighty one, i like the saethala for the bg perspective, but i don't like it from the rule perspective


      The hope is that Wayseeker and the other changes to characters & special items is enough to help these guys out. Typically spearmen units in other armies are used as cheap flankers and scorers if they don't have a character joined to them, and I see no reason for Forest Guard to be different. The added combat flexibility shouldn't be underestimated as well, unlike the dryads, these guys can be quite the anvil with magical support + Sathaeala against low offensive skill units.


      - Sylvan Archers : Nice and clean, the light armor is a bit off on them but it works mechanically, imho they don't need sylvan blades, i would give them it alongside paired weapons with a specific upgrade (like 3 point/model) if you think they deserve some melee capability (i think an option would be cool)


      The Sylvan Blades is kind of the Elf rule for the army (like Martial Discipline or Killer Instinct for the other elves). I worry that having weapon options for the archers would make them further outshine Forest Guard. The light armor is to give them a bit of a defense against damage spells primarily and to bring them in-line with Heath Riders.


      - Sylvan Lancers : Str4 Ap1 base with the possibility to chose between light lance and paired weapon while retaining 4+ armor is pretty strong for a core unit, i can see them working pretty well, but i'm not sure that it's right for the army to have a similar troop in core.


      Fluff wise, the idea is they are the minor nobles of Sylvan Elf society and have better training than standard Forest Guard. The buffs were to help the army lists have more mobile scoring in them and further differentiate the unit from Heath Riders while sticking with the low armor theme.


      - Syphls : Cool, i like them


      I hope the effect isn't too strong. I wanted to give a dedicated role to Skirmish Dryads and being a mobile anti-scoring option seemed like a natural fit. Fluffwise the rule works a bit like a Sirens Song with a bit of that famous Dryad Glamour mixed in.


      - Heath riders if more than 7 : interesting move to take them out of direct core to leave only scorers, other than that i think that giving them the option between scout and vanguard is unnecessary, vanguard is thematic and works well with them, imho no need for more option

      They can actually have both Scout and Vanguard, I made Vanguard optional primarily for if the player wishes to have a Character start in the unit. The Scout option is to make non-core Heath Riders a bit more interesting and I felt it was a thematic fit.


      Will try to analyze the rest later.
      Cheers!
      A Sylvan Elves Homebrew Full Army Book - last updated September 26, 2019
    • Special section :

      - Blade Dancers : Lots of changes here, Aegis up to 5+, no more hard target,9 Dis, no native ignore parry, more max model,reduced price and different dances (no more 3++).
      Basically you are reducing their rpsness by making them more solid overall, which i like and dislike, i'm thorned on them, but this is a good example on how to reduce some of the elven rpsness

      - Cwn Annwn : Nice and flavourful, can't comment on power level since they look tricky to use right

      - Forest Eagles : They look right, don't really know how to evaluate them but they have a couple of clear roles that weren't there before, is more a question of finding the right price

      - Darkwood Rangers : Yay for talismanic tattos, not sure if it is the best thematic choice but mechanically it should work, again i feel Sathaeala is unnecessary, initiates of Cadaron is kind of interesting but i'm not sure how to evaluate it.
      All in all i don't know, i would have fixed them differently, but i don't know how.

      - Kestrel Knights : An interesting differenciation between the melee and the ranged/avoidy version (feigned flight and skirmish), i'll have to think more about it, maybe the ranged version could have -1 attack on the rider but shots(2) to further higlight the differences and lower the price

      - Sprite Swarms : Intresting design, maybe poison Attacks to give them a little threat in melee, or they are meant to be harrassing only ?

      - Wild Huntsmen : Very interesting change, M 8"/16" Re 4 5+/5++,scoring, not frenzied from the start, not light troop, +1Str on the charge for more quality than quantity, they fill an interesting niche and have the option to return to light troops, i like them, maybe we have really found a sort of medium cavalry, nice work with smoothing the rpsness while still maintaining a clear role and threat
    • Forest Stalkers (love the name btw) :

      - Sentinels : Soo a sort of mix of non light troops spearmen/archers with poison that count in the "avoidy archers" category while we already have a bow cap ? It's not that the idea is without merit, but they should really be in special and in stalkers with the shadow guards upgrade.
      What exactly would be the intended use of the unit ? they kind of want to get close to shoot and fight, but they cost a lot and are paper thin so that wouldn't be advised, they have an hig model cap, but without being able to shoot in 3 ranks you are wasting most of the bow cost by doing that.
      A unit of 10 with shields would be 340 points in stalkers against the 250 points of a units of 10 sylvan archers in core, with shadow guard we are at 420 wich is too hig for what they can do, i'm not conviced by this unit.

      - Pathfinders : The shroud is good, the price too

      - Shadow Dancers : I like the idea of an harrassing unit on foot with a gimmick, but they lack offense for their cost, a unit of 2/3 eagles is significantly better than them and don't come out of stalkers points, swapping shadow path with ambush could solve some of their problems since by being the backlines they won't need that much offense

      - Briar Maidens : like the change to have some more viability in melee and less in ranged, don't like healing waters in the spells since now a significant part of the army have aegis 5+, like the shadow pact option and associated spells

      - Thornweaver Chariot : Should we even have a chariot ? Other than that it looks fine
    • Chack wrote:

      Special section :

      - Blade Dancers : Lots of changes here, Aegis up to 5+, no more hard target,9 Dis, no native ignore parry, more max model,reduced price and different dances (no more 3++).
      Basically you are reducing their rpsness by making them more solid overall, which i like and dislike, i'm thorned on them, but this is a good example on how to reduce some of the elven rpsness

      I initially didn't set out with the intent to alter Blade Dancers too much, just to add an avoiding hits dance. But that decision combined with a desire to make Dances of Cenryn a little more interesting for characters started a cascade of small adjustments. The idea ended up being each dance increases a stat by +1 and adds a rule. because they now have two defensive dances I figured a 3+ aegis would be too good so I tried a few ideas and the one presented is the one that eventually stuck. It creates interesting synergies with Talismanic Tattoos, Sylvan Shroud, and Special Items. I ended up removing Hard Target (1) to help keep their price down since they picked up a 5+ Aegis and increased their max unit size, deciding that it helps differentiate them from Shadow Dancers further.



      - Cwn Annwn : Nice and flavourful, can't comment on power level since they look tricky to use right

      Pricing these guys was tricky since they are entirely new. When designing them I wanted to avoid making a type of "chaff" dog unit that shows up in so many other books but didn't just want to make another unit of Wild Huntsmen. The result was a unit that can either clear chaff & small units on its own or support other units with Flank charges.


      - Forest Eagles : They look right, don't really know how to evaluate them but they have a couple of clear roles that weren't there before, is more a question of finding the right price


      I upped the Strength to 5 when compared to the current rules, it always bugged me how the smaller Kestrel mounts were just better than the bigger eagles in combat. The addition of Hard Target (1) & Devastating Charge (+1 AP, Lethal Strike) is a design choice for all the "bird" units in the book, tying them all together along with the Wind Rider Kindred. I lowered the Off and Def to 4 to help counter some of these upgrades, also I figured highly skilled eagles was a weird legacy stat. This ended up making eagles into some solid combatants on their own, where of course pricing then became an issue. The addition of Court of the Wind was to give a much desired home unit for Wind Rider Characters, adding a kestrel mount to the character seemed cumbersome, combined with a desire to avoid too much Vanguard for characters in the book I figured an Eagle bodyguard for an Eagle mounted character was more appropriate and helped diversify their role in the army.

      - Darkwood Rangers : Yay for talismanic tattos, not sure if it is the best thematic choice but mechanically it should work, again i feel Sathaeala is unnecessary, initiates of Cadaron is kind of interesting but i'm not sure how to evaluate it.
      All in all i don't know, i would have fixed them differently, but i don't know how.

      They have been a design I have been struggling with in this homebrew. Talismanic Tattoos, beyond the mechanical implications, thematically are to represent the oaths the Rangers have made to Nyb (Just as how the Wild Huntsmen are to Cadaron & Blade Dances to Cenyrn). I have pondered switching the Paired Weapons to Halberds to represent the Rangers using their weapons with a different style/grip. Sathaeala is supposed to be the keyword rule for the Forest Guardian Kindred, it represents a unique fighting style specific to the standing military of the Sylvan Elves (Forest Guard, Sylvan Lancers, Sentinels, and Darkwood Rangers) The main part of the rule is Parry, used here to represent "avoiding hits", the Weapon Master portion was primarily for the benefit of Forest Guard & Sylvan Lancers and this is where I am struggling with the Rangers.


      - Kestrel Knights : An interesting differenciation between the melee and the ranged/avoidy version (feigned flight and skirmish), i'll have to think more about it, maybe the ranged version could have -1 attack on the rider but shots(2) to further higlight the differences and lower the price

      I was experimenting with having a Shootier version of Kestrel Knights but the build ran into problems with unit allowances when combined with regular Kestrel Knights and crowding into Forest Stalkers allowances (making them better at shooting necessitated them occupying this slot). The goal of the Wind Riders is to add an option that trades some fightyness for an unpredictable deployment and some harassment capabilities. Also with the changes to Forest Eagles I feared having two units of super shooty Kestrels + two big units of Forest Eagles would have been a little too much for most armies to deal with.


      - Sprite Swarms : Intresting design, maybe poison Attacks to give them a little threat in melee, or they are meant to be harrassing only ?

      Originally I had Poison on them but with the decent amount of Poison the army can already put out I felt it may have been too much. Also the intended roll for the unit is annoying chaff and harassment, not so much damage. Leaving poison off them helps keep costs down for their primary role.


      - Wild Huntsmen : Very interesting change, M 8"/16" Re 4 5+/5++,scoring, not frenzied from the start, not light troop, +1Str on the charge for more quality than quantity, they fill an interesting niche and have the option to return to light troops, i like them, maybe we have really found a sort of medium cavalry, nice work with smoothing the rpsness while still maintaining a clear role and threat


      The goal was to have a mobile scoring shock cavalry unit that most other armies already have, by giving them Str 6 on the charge they can help fulfill a role the army has traditionally had trouble with outside of characters. By equipping Paired Weapons and Light troops on the unit they can still perform very similarly to their current incarnation as well.

      Chack wrote:

      Forest Stalkers (love the name btw) :

      Can't take credit for this one, sniped it from @Hachiman Taro


      - Sentinels : Soo a sort of mix of non light troops spearmen/archers with poison that count in the "avoidy archers" category while we already have a bow cap ? It's not that the idea is without merit, but they should really be in special and in stalkers with the shadow guards upgrade.
      What exactly would be the intended use of the unit ? they kind of want to get close to shoot and fight, but they cost a lot and are paper thin so that wouldn't be advised, they have an hig model cap, but without being able to shoot in 3 ranks you are wasting most of the bow cost by doing that.
      A unit of 10 with shields would be 340 points in stalkers against the 250 points of a units of 10 sylvan archers in core, with shadow guard we are at 420 wich is too hig for what they can do, i'm not conviced by this unit.

      Originally I wanted another Scoring option for the book as well as a CC/Shooty unit, this was the result. But the homebrew changed around them and the design has fallen behind, I believe your spot on with the assessment. I have planned a streamline and revamp for the presented build, the aim will be to keep costs down while sticking to the idea of a CC/Shooty unit.


      - Pathfinders : The shroud is good, the price too

      The homebrew pushes them into a more dedicated shooting role by dropping their CC stats and equipment for the Shrouds. The hope is to have Sentinels as the CC/Shooty hybrid of the book.


      - Shadow Dancers : I like the idea of an harrassing unit on foot with a gimmick, but they lack offense for their cost, a unit of 2/3 eagles is significantly better than them and don't come out of stalkers points, swapping shadow path with ambush could solve some of their problems since by being the backlines they won't need that much offense

      I pulled back on the amount of Ambush the homebrew had from its previous incarnation, and this was one unit that had been targeted by that decision and I switched their Ambush out for Shadow Path. With the stated desire to revamp the Sentinels posted above I plan on giving these guys the Sentinel's Ambush rule instead.


      - Briar Maidens : like the change to have some more viability in melee and less in ranged, don't like healing waters in the spells since now a significant part of the army have aegis 5+, like the shadow pact option and associated spells

      I wanted them to have 2 Druidism spells since they gain access to Witchcraft in the homebrew (also to make Oaken Throne more worthwhile to cast for the unit). Summer growth was out of the question and I wanted to avoid giving a damage spell to a shooting unit so Healing Waters was what I was left with. Now with that being said Healing Waters is great for most of the core units in the army and combines very nicely with the Aspect of Nature: Springs Hope. It counters Divine and is a cheap way of getting the Druidism Attribute off as well.


      - Thornweaver Chariot : Should we even have a chariot ? Other than that it looks fine


      The intended role for the model is to support fast single models like the Tuath De, Dragonfay, or a Storm Roc. It diversifies SE shooting some more and provides a pseudo Volley Gun on a Chariot. The unit also presented an opportunity to have another unit tied to Briar Maidens and provides a unique addition to a very streamlined roster of units.
      A Sylvan Elves Homebrew Full Army Book - last updated September 26, 2019

      The post was edited 1 time, last by funkyfellow ().

    • Added links to possible models for new units/upgrades in the first post

      Updated to 2.1.2; The update was targeted at correcting mistakes as well as taking in some feedback.



      I had hoped for this to be the final update that alters rules and to only follow up with updates that strictly stick to points adjustments and corrections but a recent discussion in the SE general forums brought up the possibility of dropping Divination and magic from the Sylvan Spirits to make room for both Cosmology and Witchcraft in the same book. This home brew could further explore that idea if there is interest in doing so:

      Sylvan Spirit Units:
      Remove Wizard options from Treefather Elder & reduce points by 40
      Reduce Tuath De to a Wizard Apprentice that only knows Forests Embrace, reduce cost by 100 pts
      Remove Nymph from book
      Briar Maidens remain unchanged due to the mounts being what provides Sylvan Spirit.

      Dreamseer Kindred:
      Remove Divination from the Dreamseer Kindred and add Cosmology.

      Change Kindred Spirits to the following:
      Kindred Spirits - 20 pts
      May only be taken if the General has Sylvan Spirit

      Kindred Spirits: Change this models Base to 25x25mm. This model gains Swift Reform and may join units of Dryads despite not having Sylvan Spirit, this model may not join units already containing a Druid with Kindred Spirits. Additionally this model may purchase one of the following Aspects of Nature:

      Natures Heart - 50 pts
      Springs Hope - 30 pts
      Summers Fury - 30 pts
      Autumns Cunning - 50 pts
      Winters Spite - 60 pts

      Aspects of Nature:
      Change wording so that they only affect models with Sylvan Spirit & the Bearer.

      Wind Rider Druid:
      Add Storm Roc mount option


      I would then add a Wizard option for the Treefather Elder in a Sylvan Spirit themed auxiliary book I have been developing to accompany this home brew.

      Thoughts?
      A Sylvan Elves Homebrew Full Army Book - last updated September 26, 2019

      The post was edited 1 time, last by funkyfellow ().