Brawler Bash XII June 1-2 2019

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    • Snarkhunter wrote:

      JoeFin wrote:

      kbonn wrote:

      JoeFin wrote:

      According to War score Keith is the winner! Congratulations Keith! I feel extra chuffed as I predicted you to win, so really it is I who won this weekend. ;)
      Really I should be congratulating you.Great opponents! lots of fun, minus the heat.
      It’s tough being right all the time
      Based on your prediction for Gray's list, you don't have to worry about it ... and based on my prediction of Todd's list, neither do I !!
      Some of match up were horrible. That's why I don't get these "list doing well predictions". 9th age is very paper, rock, scissors in that regard. I picked Kieth because I know he is one of the best players in the room. He has some games under his belt now coming back so he was a sold pick. Trust me, my "list" is a piece of paper and that is all.

      I faced 2 OK armies and got 2 wins
      A dwarf army with 2-3 slayer lords that melt my army. Killed 2 of them and all the slayers but lost a lot. Loss.
      Beast army with 5 monsters, 2 characters on chariots, a mino lord running around. He rushed it all at me. There isn't much rats can do vs that. Shoot, chaff, shoot, die... loss
      Vs KoE it was the opposite. He was screwed from the jump.

      The game is very skewed like that as a whole. Had fun in all the games but I can say as a game choice to play 9th Age is hurting in some areas. One being before a die was rolled I new the result of 3 out of 5 of my games. Unless my opponent was playing his first game it was going to happen. You listen to all the people talking ETC style about green and red matches. So why play a game where we know the result? 9th needs to work on that some.
    • GenePhelps wrote:

      grungimusic wrote:

      grungimusic wrote:

      Kazandu wrote:

      The real question I have is how quickly Gene will start whining about my new list
      Does this new list ever require panic checks? If so you might be in trouble...
      Also nailed my prediction
      I won't mention any names, but my pick let me down.
      Guess I deserved that for picking dwarves to do anything but just sit in a corner
      It felt so weird that you picked Dwarves anyway, like some Michigan fan wearing a Buckeyes jersey.
      "An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of men comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you *stand, Men of the West!*"

      -Aragorn, son of Arathorn
    • Poxous wrote:

      Snarkhunter wrote:

      JoeFin wrote:

      kbonn wrote:

      JoeFin wrote:

      According to War score Keith is the winner! Congratulations Keith! I feel extra chuffed as I predicted you to win, so really it is I who won this weekend. ;)
      Really I should be congratulating you.Great opponents! lots of fun, minus the heat.
      It’s tough being right all the time
      Based on your prediction for Gray's list, you don't have to worry about it ... and based on my prediction of Todd's list, neither do I !!
      Some of match up were horrible. That's why I don't get these "list doing well predictions". 9th age is very paper, rock, scissors in that regard. I picked Kieth because I know he is one of the best players in the room. He has some games under his belt now coming back so he was a sold pick. Trust me, my "list" is a piece of paper and that is all.
      I faced 2 OK armies and got 2 wins
      A dwarf army with 2-3 slayer lords that melt my army. Killed 2 of them and all the slayers but lost a lot. Loss.
      Beast army with 5 monsters, 2 characters on chariots, a mino lord running around. He rushed it all at me. There isn't much rats can do vs that. Shoot, chaff, shoot, die... loss
      Vs KoE it was the opposite. He was screwed from the jump.

      The game is very skewed like that as a whole. Had fun in all the games but I can say as a game choice to play 9th Age is hurting in some areas. One being before a die was rolled I new the result of 3 out of 5 of my games. Unless my opponent was playing his first game it was going to happen. You listen to all the people talking ETC style about green and red matches. So why play a game where we know the result? 9th needs to work on that some.
      I have to disagree with you. List building is a lot of the game but not all of it. Knowing how to adept vs your enemy is how you make it to the top tables. 9th is by far the most balanced games I’ve played where you at least have a fighting chance to win regardless of what’s across the table. I admit ogres was a hard counter to my army but I still think I had a chance to tie or even win with objectives in my game but poor playing on my part and bad dice sealed the deal. But I didn’t let that stop me. Went from 1pt after game 1 to 2nd place at 98 pts. It’s about not giving up before the dice are even rolled.

      O&G Community Supportt

    • GrayGork wrote:

      Poxous wrote:

      Some of match up were horrible. That's why I don't get these "list doing well predictions". 9th age is very paper, rock, scissors in that regard. I picked Kieth because I know he is one of the best players in the room. He has some games under his belt now coming back so he was a sold pick. Trust me, my "list" is a piece of paper and that is all.I faced 2 OK armies and got 2 wins
      A dwarf army with 2-3 slayer lords that melt my army. Killed 2 of them and all the slayers but lost a lot. Loss.
      Beast army with 5 monsters, 2 characters on chariots, a mino lord running around. He rushed it all at me. There isn't much rats can do vs that. Shoot, chaff, shoot, die... loss
      Vs KoE it was the opposite. He was screwed from the jump.

      The game is very skewed like that as a whole. Had fun in all the games but I can say as a game choice to play 9th Age is hurting in some areas. One being before a die was rolled I new the result of 3 out of 5 of my games. Unless my opponent was playing his first game it was going to happen. You listen to all the people talking ETC style about green and red matches. So why play a game where we know the result? 9th needs to work on that some.
      I have to disagree with you. List building is a lot of the game but not all of it. Knowing how to adept vs your enemy is how you make it to the top tables. 9th is by far the most balanced games I’ve played where you at least have a fighting chance to win regardless of what’s across the table. I admit ogres was a hard counter to my army but I still think I had a chance to tie or even win with objectives in my game but poor playing on my part and bad dice sealed the deal. But I didn’t let that stop me. Went from 1pt after game 1 to 2nd place at 98 pts. It’s about not giving up before the dice are even rolled.
      I like both comments and find the truth to be in the middle. Balance should be that any list should have equal the chance to win as any other, yet my list was an example that it isn’t true. It can be fun (and was), but was there really any balance in my games? The laughter during list review should have answered that. But, I didn’t give up and had some small victories (self proclaimed, not score related). It is a task for ADT to look into to eliminate the massive RPS ( it will never be totally eradicated), but it’s going to take the years necessary to get all books caught up. Until then, we strap up, keep the stiff upper lip, bet on camels, and push forward. :thumbsup:
      B. "Skunk Butt" Jones - Member of the CGL :oldmen:
      • YES! My conquest is complete! I now have every Army and my bias will be for Every L.A.B. to be great!. :thumbsup:

      DL/ADT - TT

      Campaign Design-Broken Isles

      Freelance Design

      Playtester-Mid Atlantic USA

      CGL 2018 Worst Player Winner

    • skipschnit wrote:

      GrayGork wrote:

      Poxous wrote:

      Some of match up were horrible. That's why I don't get these "list doing well predictions". 9th age is very paper, rock, scissors in that regard. I picked Kieth because I know he is one of the best players in the room. He has some games under his belt now coming back so he was a sold pick. Trust me, my "list" is a piece of paper and that is all.I faced 2 OK armies and got 2 wins
      A dwarf army with 2-3 slayer lords that melt my army. Killed 2 of them and all the slayers but lost a lot. Loss.
      Beast army with 5 monsters, 2 characters on chariots, a mino lord running around. He rushed it all at me. There isn't much rats can do vs that. Shoot, chaff, shoot, die... loss
      Vs KoE it was the opposite. He was screwed from the jump.

      The game is very skewed like that as a whole. Had fun in all the games but I can say as a game choice to play 9th Age is hurting in some areas. One being before a die was rolled I new the result of 3 out of 5 of my games. Unless my opponent was playing his first game it was going to happen. You listen to all the people talking ETC style about green and red matches. So why play a game where we know the result? 9th needs to work on that some.
      I have to disagree with you. List building is a lot of the game but not all of it. Knowing how to adept vs your enemy is how you make it to the top tables. 9th is by far the most balanced games I’ve played where you at least have a fighting chance to win regardless of what’s across the table. I admit ogres was a hard counter to my army but I still think I had a chance to tie or even win with objectives in my game but poor playing on my part and bad dice sealed the deal. But I didn’t let that stop me. Went from 1pt after game 1 to 2nd place at 98 pts. It’s about not giving up before the dice are even rolled.
      I like both comments and find the truth to be in the middle. Balance should be that any list should have equal the chance to win as any other, yet my list was an example that it isn’t true. It can be fun (and was), but was there really any balance in my games? The laughter during list review should have answered that. But, I didn’t give up and had some small victories (self proclaimed, not score related). It is a task for ADT to look into to eliminate the massive RPS ( it will never be totally eradicated), but it’s going to take the years necessary to get all books caught up. Until then, we strap up, keep the stiff upper lip, bet on camels, and push forward. :thumbsup:
      You also have to take into account army strengths and weaknesses along with internal synergy. True balance would be too much like chess imho. I like that sometimes you have a hard match or easy match but it’s not so unbalanced you never have a chance. At the end of the day it’s a dice game and the biggest part for me is you get to see friends and play with your toys that you have spent so much time painting.

      O&G Community Supportt

    • GrayGork wrote:

      Poxous wrote:

      Snarkhunter wrote:

      JoeFin wrote:

      kbonn wrote:

      JoeFin wrote:

      According to War score Keith is the winner! Congratulations Keith! I feel extra chuffed as I predicted you to win, so really it is I who won this weekend. ;)
      Really I should be congratulating you.Great opponents! lots of fun, minus the heat.
      It’s tough being right all the time
      Based on your prediction for Gray's list, you don't have to worry about it ... and based on my prediction of Todd's list, neither do I !!
      Some of match up were horrible. That's why I don't get these "list doing well predictions". 9th age is very paper, rock, scissors in that regard. I picked Kieth because I know he is one of the best players in the room. He has some games under his belt now coming back so he was a sold pick. Trust me, my "list" is a piece of paper and that is all.I faced 2 OK armies and got 2 wins
      A dwarf army with 2-3 slayer lords that melt my army. Killed 2 of them and all the slayers but lost a lot. Loss.
      Beast army with 5 monsters, 2 characters on chariots, a mino lord running around. He rushed it all at me. There isn't much rats can do vs that. Shoot, chaff, shoot, die... loss
      Vs KoE it was the opposite. He was screwed from the jump.

      The game is very skewed like that as a whole. Had fun in all the games but I can say as a game choice to play 9th Age is hurting in some areas. One being before a die was rolled I new the result of 3 out of 5 of my games. Unless my opponent was playing his first game it was going to happen. You listen to all the people talking ETC style about green and red matches. So why play a game where we know the result? 9th needs to work on that some.
      I have to disagree with you. List building is a lot of the game but not all of it. Knowing how to adept vs your enemy is how you make it to the top tables. 9th is by far the most balanced games I’ve played where you at least have a fighting chance to win regardless of what’s across the table. I admit ogres was a hard counter to my army but I still think I had a chance to tie or even win with objectives in my game but poor playing on my part and bad dice sealed the deal. But I didn’t let that stop me. Went from 1pt after game 1 to 2nd place at 98 pts. It’s about not giving up before the dice are even rolled.
      Interestingly Ryan Capps feels Warriors is VERY strong vs OKs. Warriors out fight OK and then can take the burning blade.
    • @Snarkhunter,

      Shannon, thanks for running the event! I played five great opponents and enjoyed every game and learned something in every game. The sportsmanship was phenomenal and I felt like the sportsmanship for every player and every game was superb. I really appreciate you getting us out early on Sunday afternoon and I appreciate the early starts on Saturday and Sunday. Since I knew I had to drive down Friday it was nice to get started early on Saturday and be done at a reasonable hour on Saturday night. I really appreciated seeing new folks and seeing folks come back to the hobby and seeing some guys I have not seen in a couple of years.

      @Poxous

      Todd, great restaurant recommendation for Saturday night!

      Kelly
    • Oh hell yeah, that BBQ was awesome! Then thanks Todd for filling my belly and then getting me initiated on the wonderful sport of camel racing
      B. "Skunk Butt" Jones - Member of the CGL :oldmen:
      • YES! My conquest is complete! I now have every Army and my bias will be for Every L.A.B. to be great!. :thumbsup:

      DL/ADT - TT

      Campaign Design-Broken Isles

      Freelance Design

      Playtester-Mid Atlantic USA

      CGL 2018 Worst Player Winner

    • Not sure you disagreed up there....

      "I had a chance to tie" not really talking balance there. I could have run away for 5 turns and "tied" as well if I wanted. Is that fun? No. Is it fun for the guy playing me? No. Rock, paper, scissors is what a lot of 9th age is. I feel it suffers from being made by people who have ETC style team events in mind not a game that friends would play on a Friday evening with no one around. If Chad came over to my house with his list and I had my list I would have said...hey let's grab a movie. Why play? To see if I can get 6 points? That is the state of the game. Some list suffer more than others.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Poxous ().

    • Poxous wrote:

      Snarkhunter wrote:

      JoeFin wrote:

      kbonn wrote:

      JoeFin wrote:

      According to War score Keith is the winner! Congratulations Keith! I feel extra chuffed as I predicted you to win, so really it is I who won this weekend. ;)
      Really I should be congratulating you.Great opponents! lots of fun, minus the heat.
      It’s tough being right all the time
      Based on your prediction for Gray's list, you don't have to worry about it ... and based on my prediction of Todd's list, neither do I !!
      Some of match up were horrible. That's why I don't get these "list doing well predictions". 9th age is very paper, rock, scissors in that regard. I picked Kieth because I know he is one of the best players in the room. He has some games under his belt now coming back so he was a sold pick. Trust me, my "list" is a piece of paper and that is all.
      I faced 2 OK armies and got 2 wins
      A dwarf army with 2-3 slayer lords that melt my army. Killed 2 of them and all the slayers but lost a lot. Loss.
      Beast army with 5 monsters, 2 characters on chariots, a mino lord running around. He rushed it all at me. There isn't much rats can do vs that. Shoot, chaff, shoot, die... loss
      Vs KoE it was the opposite. He was screwed from the jump.

      The game is very skewed like that as a whole. Had fun in all the games but I can say as a game choice to play 9th Age is hurting in some areas. One being before a die was rolled I new the result of 3 out of 5 of my games. Unless my opponent was playing his first game it was going to happen. You listen to all the people talking ETC style about green and red matches. So why play a game where we know the result? 9th needs to work on that some.
      @Proxous huh I wonder who that poor KoE guy was lol. I do agree sometimes, but not always certain match ups are just bad for one person or the other. And not complaining about our game, it was a great game, but you're not wrong. I was pretty much boned from the jump. Especially with turn 1's losses. Not sure how else I would have played that and done better other than pure luck on rolls and you cannot account that into strategy.
    • I like the KoE player's list (as did many others). However, it is a skew list, with all knights and no super killy heros. Against armies with few tools to counter armor, it should do very well. Against armies with many tools to deal with armor, it should do poorly.

      Todd's army had 2 plague catapults - which ignore armor, 20 plague disciples - which partly ignore armor, and a Vermin Demon with ap10.
      So yes, the list designed to counter armor was really good against the list that brought all armor.

      Todd's list did not fare so well against the seeker horde with copters and other toys, and it really shouldn't as I don't have much armor anyway. However, had he included some machine gun or flamethrower weapon teams in the mix, his list would have a much better chance. I can tell you from experience, three machine guns (especially if one has battle focus) will do an amazing job evaporating a seeker brick (trust me on this). Of course, this means less effectiveness versus armor, but then you're taking a more balanced list with less skew in one direction.

      Please don't take any of this as personal criticism, as I ran a skew list myself which is very good versus monsters and monstrous things, but very vulnerable to gunlines. The 18 queens guard HE list, which I gratefully managed to dodge, would likely have slaughtered it. But that was a calculated risk I chose to take, and matchup wise it paid off. I had 5 green pairings last weekend in a meta perfect for that list design. I didn't always play well enough to exploit the advantage, but that's a separate issue.

      Asymmetrical matchups are the price we pay for variety and customization, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
      "An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of men comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you *stand, Men of the West!*"

      -Aragorn, son of Arathorn
    • @grungimusic, I'm Chris, the KoE player. I was thinking earlier, vs a list that relied on higher body count instead of high armor his weapons wouldn't have been nearly as effective. I had a total of 36 knights, 3 Paladins, 1 damsel, 1 lord, 10 yeoman and 2 teens, so only 53 models. I played a DE player who I know had around 100 models. Point I'm making is when you have a low model count you run the risk you do in every wargame, you have to win the trade but it's hard. Each guy you lose who fails to kill anything quickly skews the balance out of your favor. So lots of shooting that bypassed armor was a good way to kill my guys. One huge issue with my list though, was my inability to deal with chaff. Lacking offensive skills or much shooting I couldnt keep my charge lanes clear. Trying to use my own chaff for that job left me exposed therefore I wasn't able to use them effectively. Knowledge for the next go. I'll be at the tournament at Gigabytes Cafe July 13th, so I'll tweak my list for that.

      I also agree though, i wouldn't have it any other way. I like having so many options for list building. I played vs both Todd and Dennis who ran Verman Swarm. It was two completely different games.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Caidhlaoch ().

    • Caidhlaoch wrote:

      @grungimusic, I'm Chris, the KoE player. I was thinking earlier, vs a list that relied on higher body count instead of high armor his weapons wouldn't have been nearly as effective. I had a total of 36 knights, 3 Paladins, 1 damsel, 1 lord, 10 yeoman and 2 teens, so only 53 models. I played a DE player who I know had around 100 models. Point I'm making is when you have a low model count you run the risk you do in every wargame, you have to win the trade but it's hard. Each guy you lose who fails to kill anything quickly skews the balance out of your favor. So lots of shooting that bypassed armor was a good way to kill my guys. One huge issue with my list though, was my inability to deal with chaff. Lacking offensive skills or much shooting I couldnt keep my charge lanes clear. Trying to use my own chaff for that job left me exposed therefore I wasn't able to use them effectively. Knowledge for the next go. I'll be at the tournament at Gigabytes Cafe July 13th, so I'll tweak my list for that.

      I also agree though, i wouldn't have it any other way. I like having so many options for list building. I played vs both Todd and Dennis who ran Verman Swarm. It was two completely different games.
      Hey Chris, nice meeting you last weekend. I'm not suprised to hear you say that about Todd versus Dennis. Those two VS lists, despite both having pendulum, were very different designs.

      The model count point is well taken. Huge units of O&G or BH would give his list problems (and mine as well), but your knights are so expensive he's getting a great return with every shot.

      I've seen people run 6 man units of realm for chaff cleaners, but maybe ask someone more knowledgeable about KoE. Good luck!
      "An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of men comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you *stand, Men of the West!*"

      -Aragorn, son of Arathorn