Pegasus worthless flying horseflesh

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  • Pegs have their place - are they in my list, no, but I run two big grail busses so I don't have the points.

    Disagree on Yeomen or Brigands having the same role. No one really cares about being rear charged by Brigands or Yeomen. Also, at the price, you shouldn't be throwing your pegs away as chaff.

    I suspect your ire is more to do with the peg as a character mount, as the unit does get vanguard and in one turn can be in a position to charge your enemy war machines on turn two.
    Mainly play KoE and OnG

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  • Raughri wrote:

    Pegs have their place - are they in my list, no, but I run two big grail busses so I don't have the points.

    Disagree on Yeomen or Brigands having the same role. No one really cares about being rear charged by Brigands or Yeomen. Also, at the price, you shouldn't be throwing your pegs away as chaff.

    I suspect your ire is more to do with the peg as a character mount, as the unit does get vanguard and in one turn can be in a position to charge your enemy war machines on turn two.
    I wouldn't just rear charge Brigands or Yoemen. I would use them to stop artillery, and anyone who isn't afraid of a rear or flank charge of anything is begging for me to crush them. Up to +3 combat bonus for rear, +1 or +2 for flank, are you joking?

    I would run 6 Knights of the realm, Banner of Speed, full command for the same cost. They are faster than peg knights (now), hit more, have higher strength, can't be stopped by spells and items that effect fly, and aren't large.

    Hard target and higher Res is a decent buff, but against knights (armor) you are going to spam shots and hits anyway.

    Vanguard is valuable so that would be the most missed, but the increased long term speed for the Banner of Speed is more valuable (I assume it can't increase fly speeds). Plus, Knights of the Realm have +1 AP on devastating charge.

    So yeah, I'm with you...wouldn't take Peg Knights...like ever.

    And yeah, my biggest beef is with Pegs as mounts on single characters, but it extends to Peg knights as well. Why not add a buff like "well-trained" that can be bought for 100 points or something that gives them fly(+2,+4)?
  • Marcos24 wrote:

    Brigands and yeomen would only get +2 for rear charge, and +1 on the flank since they both have light troops.

    6 KotR have less attacks than 3 peg knights have on the charge, and they’re not stronger... and after the charge some are weaker, where as all attacks from the peg knight units remain S4. Also don’t forget about the stomps
    +2 and +1 is still incredibly worth it. Plus, if you are behind them, you can stop an enemy unit while your front catches up and plows in to them (if they haven't already).

    Hmmm, I forgot about stomp. That does give them a decent advantage, but with the champion, Knights of the Realm still have more attacks (only by one though)...

    Peg Knights: 12 x S4 (knights 3 x S4 + pegs 9 x S4)
    Knights of the Realm: 7 x S4 + 6 x S3 (total 13 attacks)


    ...but Knights of the Realm have a rank. I don't understand what you mean by "after the charge some are weaker". After the charge, both are weaker the same, no?
  • I almost always run a unit of 3 peg knights and find them to be incredibly useful. To be honest I don’t even think they’re particularly over-priced for what they do.

    1. Play patiently with them and they put a lot of pressure on opponents. They’re excellent at getting behind enemy lines to either threaten bunkers/war machines, get rear/flank charges, or just make your opponent assign units to deal with you that you can then fly away from.

    2. They absorb damage really well. With skirmish, t4 and 2+ armour save they absorb a lot of fire. If they aren’t targeted, then they’re free to be a nuisance!

    3. They have a high damage output. They won’t kill deathstars, but they can certainly kill medium strength units.

    Overall I think they’re great. The only thing I’d say bad about them is — they’re best when they can be independent on the flanks or behind enemy lines. With Dis 8 this makes them vulnerable to failing panic, terror and march tests. I’d take a points increase to make them Dis 9.
  • Marcos24 wrote:

    Peg unit: riders= 6 s6 on the charge, Pegs = 6 s4. Plus 3 s4 stomps
    KotR in lance formation: riders = 6 s6 on the charge, horses = 3 s4. If 6 wide, then 6s4 horse attacks

    After the charge:
    Peg unit: 3 s4, Pegs 6s4 (12 total s4 attacks, inlcuding the 3 s4 stomps)
    KotR: 6 s4, all horses (whether 3-6 attacks) are s3 (6 total s4)
    Wait, mounts get +1 strength on the charge? I believe you, but can you show me that in the rulebook (what page)?
  • I guess I can see the advantage of vanguard putting you in 36" in the second turn. Of course this has nothing to do with fly, but it does make up for it. Unlikely to get a rear charge, but good positioning for a flank. I really don't see troop jumping as a great advantage, especially with a march of 16".

    I still think I'd go with a block of knights with a speed banner. 8 Knights of the Quest vs. Peg Knights would make attacks basically a push as to which is "hittier", but Quest Knights would be more reliable and would have a rank (I'd probably go with more than 8 but then they'd be more expensive).

    As it is, fly seems much more nerfed for Knights than other armies since we already have a speed of 8. So I concede that they do have some advantage. I just wish it was more, and more unique. My wishlist would be to make them faster and less heavy hitting, or at least have the option. Magical horseshoes that won't allow stomp? Anybody? Who's with me?
  • Tauron I think you under estimate a flying cav unit brother.

    Have you played much 9th age? Maybe your eye for the game hasn't adjusted yet. It took me awhile porting over from a legacy version of whf. This game is hyper balanced by comparison.

    Either way I agree pegs could use some adjustments but they are definitely not that bad. They are common in competitive lists for good reason. Unchaffable heavy cav delivery system is very strong in good hands. Just not my bag.
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    Undying Deathstar Construction Inc.
  • Both have different task.

    If you don't face any chaff? Sure just spam these cheaper knights. They are better :)

    But if you have chaff as enemy AND WM?

    Vanguard and fly are your tools to make the enemy miserable.

    With vanguard you can even charge turn 1 perhaps

                    

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  • Klexe wrote:

    With vanguard you can even charge turn 1 perhaps
    Interesting, I forgot if you don't have the "first player turn" you could charge on a vanguard. Seeing as how prayer usually means knights go second, this is good.

    Stygian wrote:

    Have you played much 9th age? Maybe your eye for the game hasn't adjusted yet. It took me awhile porting over from a legacy version of whf. This game is hyper balanced by comparison.
    This is true. I'm definitely still adjusting from the good ol' days of the Brets. All my old 8th edition friends dropped the game. It's hard to find players in SLC, UT, USA. I've taken up playing solitaire to scratch the itch.

    I heard a few people say Peg Knights are good...but then they say they never take them...so what gives??? My guess is they are okay. I would rather have them be unique but great. The challenge is finding uniqueness while maintaining balance, and I feel the Ninth Age does that okay, but it could be improved. I definitely appreciate the effort and the great things they have done. I'd like the Kingdom of Equitaine to continue being a more advanced army, one not easily mastered, but once you do, very powerful, rather than...just another army.



    Let me take it at this angle. The Empire has cavalry that does Adv 7", Mar 14". They can also take a Pegasus. With fly, that puts them Adv +1, Mar +1 (fly [8",16"]). Would it not make sense that MINIMALLY Ariborne Gallantry would be fly (9", 18"), Adv +1, Mar +1? Please understand, I'm not arguing against balance. If it needs to be offset (more expensive, less attacks), make it so. What I'm arguing for is uniqueness and advantage in a narrow application which is speed. Equitaine is about cavalry and speed. If the rules take away from that uniqueness, then why not play Empire (aside from the fact they've never won a battle *tongue in cheek*)?
  • Well I do like Pegasus and used to take them often. But I have a different mindset, I’d like to find just one single list that is good all around, and practical in terms of army composition (if KoE actually existed). So I need peasants in there, I need light cavalry, and I need archers, and one thing that is absolutely no compromise for me is I need Grail knights in there. Now, I also take the green knight because he’s my answer to bodyguard deathstars and removing hatred. After all that it just doesn’t leave room for Pegs
  • Tauron7 wrote:

    Stygian wrote:

    Have you played much 9th age? Maybe your eye for the game hasn't adjusted yet. It took me awhile porting over from a legacy version of whf. This game is hyper balanced by comparison.
    This is true. I'm definitely still adjusting from the good ol' days of the Brets. All my old 8th edition friends dropped the game. It's hard to find players in SLC, UT, USA. I've taken up playing solitaire to scratch the itch.
    I heard a few people say Peg Knights are good...but then they say they never take them...so what gives??? My guess is they are okay. I would rather have them be unique but great. The challenge is finding uniqueness while maintaining balance, and I feel the Ninth Age does that okay, but it could be improved. I definitely appreciate the effort and the great things they have done. I'd like the Kingdom of Equitaine to continue being a more advanced army, one not easily mastered, but once you do, very powerful, rather than...just another army.



    Let me take it at this angle. The Empire has cavalry that does Adv 7", Mar 14". They can also take a Pegasus. With fly, that puts them Adv +1, Mar +1 (fly [8",16"]). Would it not make sense that MINIMALLY Ariborne Gallantry would be fly (9", 18"), Adv +1, Mar +1? Please understand, I'm not arguing against balance. If it needs to be offset (more expensive, less attacks), make it so. What I'm arguing for is uniqueness and advantage in a narrow application which is speed. Equitaine is about cavalry and speed. If the rules take away from that uniqueness, then why not play Empire (aside from the fact they've never won a battle *tongue in cheek*)?
    I kinda figured, your still finding the nuances of this game. And it is a game ALL about nuances, incremental advantage and such. Its not easy to identify like WHF.

    Marcos just said exactly what I like to do so I will touch on that too.. you can't often fit them. Yes pegs are good. BUT, they aren't that good anymore, just a specific tool in the box and they point to the underlying problems with our book. This army has some specific needs which are always top priority- vital characters, critical mass of main line combat lances, sufficient chaff. For example pegs are often in my rough drafts but almost never make the cut. This has little to do with pegs and more to do with shortage of points after essential components. Thus I cut pegs to double up on yoemen and/or take chaff from core to squeeze more efficiency.

    Now that said, If you just want to run them they're good. Charging over units or pulling 180's after you hop a building to zone your enemy's flank and not caring about your unit placement mistakes is just good. If you want to fully commit to them in place of other things then they can even be OP in certain builds/matches. I personally have too many other good models I like to field to be doing that lol. So instead I prefer a hippo duke for similar duty.

    Lastly consider vanguards main benefit IMO to actually be the lateral movement although sometimes going forward presents itself.
    Pegs are also superb at backfield protection against ambushers, summoned totems and such due to LT zoning ability. And they can even babysit peasants while doing it.

    My advice take a couple units and test em out for awhile.
    AVOIDANCE FAILS 28% OF THE TIME FOLKS. -SE
    Undying Deathstar Construction Inc.
  • Pegs are good. I can give you our currently strongest list available. But only the combo of might divine judgment Duke on Pegasus and 5 pegasus unit makes it so strong.


    I don't use it because I hate charge only items and I hate using "best build" list.

    You tell me that is good? Well one reason not to play it:)
    I also like allround list.


    BTW thanks for the feedback.

    Feel free to write it here too.

    docs.google.com/forms/d/1mWs2t…rCuM2Fk/edit?usp=drivesdk

    Only takes a Min.


    If you want to play more often perhaps UB is something for you?

                    

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  • Marcos24 wrote:

    I’d like to find just one single list that is good all around, and practical in terms of army composition (if KoE actually existed).
    Agreed. Tournaments necessitate this, which wasn't always the case in old school Bret composition.


    Marcos24 wrote:

    So I need peasants in there, I need light cavalry
    I avoid peasants in my army unless I have no other choice. The Lady made them poor for a reason.


    Marcos24 wrote:

    one thing that is absolutely no compromise for me is I need Grail knights in there. Now, I also take the green knight because he’s my answer to bodyguard deathstars and removing hatred.
    I love both. Before brigands, the Green Knight was just the wild card the Kingdom needed. I've not used brigands yet, but fluff-wise, I like them, so I'll reserve any opinions until I've run them. Knights of the Grail with Att x 2 at S4 + lances! Love those guys.
  • Yeah but every army realistically WOULD have peasants, that’s all I mean. Unless they were just quick raids or something

    And the single list for me is definitely for tournaments as well but also fluff. I’d like to have my named characters that don’t change, and “their” army

    Brigands are pretty good, I think they’re our best tool for clearing chaff without getting in the way of knights’ movement