Human Physiology in Fantasy

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    • Just to put some realism that I know people love in fantasy games. But I have to stand up for my dwarves.

      Whilst the anatomy is definitely right that the shorter limbs are poor for mobilisation there are other factors particularly for endurance. One thing to consider is how altitude effects blood cells. The higher concentration of red blood cells that adapt at altitude give some benefit. Just for one reason they could have benefits.
    • Calisson wrote:

      Karak Norn Clansman wrote:

      Humans tend to be versatile all-rounders, and sometimes their fervent religiosity or penchant for organization marks them out from the rest.
      You nailed it in this sentence.Religion and organization is what allows humans to achieve deeds which no elf nor dwarf would consider conceiveable.

      Elves may be smarter, nimbler, etc, if they don't accept to live in large cities and share their science in universities, they cannot compete collectively in the long run.
      Dwarves may be tougher, if they lack theological speculation, they won't try what requires faith.
      I'd also add that Elves and Dwarfs are conservative. They do not accept changes in their society. Humans adept and outlive them as a species on the long run.
      But here Vermin come, ratman are taking almost all the advantages of humans over elves/dwarfs and make it better.
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    • Vermin likely lack appreciation for stable society, being themselves in a continuous rat race.

      A hyper-competitive nature combined with short-term thinking would likely lead to a highly reactive but unstable environment.

      I’m thinking more revolutions than the French, less reserve than an Italian bunga bunga party, and the political finesse of the current UK government...
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    • I didn't read the whole discussion yet, sorry, but in general everyone agrees I think on the fact that Elves get much more easily carried by their emotions and are much more stubborn once they choose a decision or course of action.

      The official T9A fluff is already full of mentions of Highborn Elves having to drink liters of camilia infusion every day just to keep cool, while the Canraig Masters are despised exactly for « embracing their feral side ».

      Humans can be silly at times, but after they got angry and cooled down, you can try to come back and convince them of the truth of what you'd just said the day before.
      Elves not so.

      Also, shorter lifespans allows for more diversity and creativity in general.
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    • i would also like to read more about elven psychology in T9A. i can see the "temperamental" aspect mentioned by Ghiz, but how does it relate to the "detached" aspect very often associated with elves?

      (btw, i know that human physiology != elven psychology, so feel free to ignore, if this is off topic)


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    • I think the best thing about humans versus dwarves and elves is precisely that they are regular in every respect, while elves and dwarves are either good or bad. They are also more intrepid while the others are more conservative.

      Having more adaptive capacity can potentially lead to being in a good position on one subject without being fatal on others. They can colonize the most extreme climates.

      I also think they have more charisma than other races. While a dwarf sells his goods mainly because his product has a quality certificate for the mere fact of being dwarf manufactured, a human trader sells for his insistence and marketing.

      On the other hand, I strongly disagree that the human advantage is religion. Religion should not have a positive value because it has good and bad things, non-human societies can also be religious and there could be a little or no religious human society and then what advantage would it have?

      Regarding the distances that dwarves advance, for me it's not a matter of speed at long distance, it's a matter of stability. I imagine that both on flat and steep terrain they have a constant movement while the others would do well on flat terrain but the steep ones would slow them down. In addition they can be loaded without diminishing the advance, which will probably make a human or elf have to stop to rest more often, the dwarf can walk all day, what has the long is an advantage.
    • xaby86 wrote:

      On the other hand, I strongly disagree that the human advantage is religion. Religion should not have a positive value because it has good and bad things, non-human societies can also be religious and there could be a little or no religious human society and then what advantage would it have?
      I think the religious advantage more refers to focusing the humans on a specific cause to the point where nothing else can matter. It might take alot to get this religious advantage into full swing because humans are adaptable. And even a religion in full swing can at least be brought back before advantage turns into disadvantage.
      Like the elven cults - the blood flows on the alter no matter the cost. No more captives? ....just grab a random elf and keep the blood party going! Humans might get to this point as well but it is not widespread and it is fleeting in face of circumstances.
    • Ghiznuk wrote:

      Also, shorter lifespans allows for more diversity and creativity in general.
      Might it be that it also adds a certain pressure to do something with your life before it's over? I imagine Elves and Dwarves are fine with things improving slowly because they live hundreds of years. They may dedicate far more time to exploring "impractical" things than Humans, simply because they have the time to do so. Humans need to select the useful things faster, and I guess are less risk-averse (an elf would be more reluctant to try a dangerous alchemical experiment that could kill him, but humans are more daring).

      piteglio wrote:

      i would also like to read more about elven psychology in T9A. i can see the "temperamental" aspect mentioned by Ghiz, but how does it relate to the "detached" aspect very often associated with elves?
      Perhaps this could be an age-related issue? Young elves might be overconfident know-it-alls, while old elves have reached old age by learning their own limits, and since they live so long they may become a bit cynical or detached. Probably old elves are the main group among the ruling class, so this "detached" view influences the rest of society (since they have more influence on how it is organized).


      Ghiznuk wrote:

      The official T9A fluff is already full of mentions of Highborn Elves having to drink liters of camilia infusion every day just to keep cool, while the Canraig Masters are despised exactly for « embracing their feral side ».
      I have found this quite funny because most HE army lists include a Master of the Canreig Tower and I imagine the other Elves looking at him dissaprovingly in the middle of the battle.
      'He opened the battered book. Bits of paper and string indicated his many bookmarks.
      "In fact, men, the general has this to say about ensuring against defeat when outnumbered, out–weaponed and outpositioned. It is..." he turned the page, "Don't Have a Battle."
      "Sounds like a clever man," said Jenkins.'
      Terry Pratchett, Jingo!

      The post was edited 1 time, last by elendor_f ().

    • I think maybe it could have something to do with how long a human would take to reach maturity say 17 years.

      Where as an elf that live a lot longer would take 75 to 100 years to pass adolescents. The end result is that humans are able to populate much quicker,

      I haven't seen much of the vs fluff but assume that they would have a significantly reduced life span maybe 10 years reaching maturity in 3
    • I enjoy these threads immensely, although they do go off track very quickly. I can’t quite understand the relevance of religion to physiology. I do know that my religious essays didnt get me many marks in biology class.

      Maybe the elves poorer ability to process alcohol will prompt them to demonise wine, whereas dwarves have a beer god? Im just trying to join these disparate dots... ;)
    • xaby86 wrote:

      Other races wouldn't do all that? ...Religion is a neutral value, first because it has the possibility of giving you good things and also bad things, second because I do not conceive that it is a purely human trait. Religious feeling must be in all races, to a greater or lesser degree.
      I do not deny religion to Elves and Dwarves (and other species).
      I suggest it could be the most intense for some humans (not all), which could be a partial explanation for some human successes.

      Similarly, Dwarves have no monopoly on sturdiness. They just have more of it than anyone else.

      -=-=-
      Let's investigate:
      EoS fields Prelates with Divine Attacks and Holy Relics, Inquisitors using Blessed Steel, and Fanatical, Zealot Flagellants.
      KoE have Questing Paladins and Sacred Reliquery with a Holy Fervor.
      WDG have Exalted Herald, Chosen with Hell-Forged Armour, Damned Forsworns, Battleshrine which are the Beacon of the Dark Gods.
      UD have Death Cult Hierarch with a Soul Conduit riding a Sacred Ark of Ages; and Casket of Phatep with Divine Light.

      Elves? DE have Priests and Divine Altars with Divine Blessings, and various units with Cults. SE have Druids.

      Dwarves? Only ID have Prophets and Chosen of Ashuruk/Lugar, riding Temple Lamassu, getting Blessing of Nezibkesh.

      Others?
      OK have Shamans. SA have Temple Guards.


      In T9A, all Human AB have something showing a strong attachement to religion.
      The use of religious terms is largely less widespread in non-human AB.

      Religion is very arguably a strong point in the military success of T9A Humans.

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    • 1. Sorry for picking up an example of religious-inspired deed, which generated a derailed discussion which I had not anticipated.
      2. For everyone, better stop immediately discussing the merits of cruzades: not only it is off topic, but I am sure discussing the merits of religions in the real world will trigger moderator's ire. :yellowcard: :judge:
      Thank you. :)

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