How to grow 9th Age - Thoughts of a 20+ years competitive gamer

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  • Lich King wrote:

    Aeon wrote:

    Lich King wrote:

    If the 12 years old children all go for other systems like AoS and so on, why should they ever start T9A? Most of them lack in a comparable system to give it a try. And the bigger the differences are, the bigger is the chance they don't like this other system. Additionally why should they give up their gaming group? They have a place to meet and play (GW). T9A is more like an underground culture, you only find at the internet. Kids and teenagers won't ever change to T9A as long as the project doesn't become visible on the market (e.g. in shops). But that's another story. Getting kind of sick of repeating me all the time...
    Well...i disagree. I actually come from a place with NO STORE at all. It's only from the club i went that i discover tabletop games. We just ask people to bring some models when they travel to place with stores but that's all. It was true underground stuff at this period and it was (still) impossible to order from e-shop ! It was 20 years ago and the club is still there with many people enjoying tabletop game. I don't know if they play 9age at the moment but for sure it is not a problem to introduce the concept and make the community growing as long as the game is good and models can be find somewhere.I repeat myself too, but a store in 2019 is not the only option to make the game well known. I trust clubs and community also. Plus free rules is the future (or present). This is the image of a proper website with many links to order models (even GW why not) download sections etc. that needs to be done. Where this thing is going actually ?


    DanT wrote:

    I don't buy that t9a should be a gateway into the hobby for 12yr olds.
    Why should we be trying to achieve that?

    Let other people do that, then we poach them with our superior game
    Definitely.
    Well, maybe let's agree on it being depending on a local factor.
    I know at least 6 stores within a distance of less than 50 km. Yes, community & clubs is a good point. But is there any support from the project side to those in the clubs who fight hard to convince others of their system and make it grow. Companies do! KoW does...even GW does, not speaking of independent stores at all who are able and willing to give clubs at least some discounts.

    So what do we have? No stores to be visible, no advertising on social media, no support for club. While the other systems have at least 2 out of 3.

    I'm no doomsayer. On the contrary, I think we are in a very good position right now, but this thread is about how to grow the system, right? ;)

    By the way, last time I heard someone speaking like “the others will convert to us, because they'll see our system is the superior one“ was in the Cold War. And in the end no one converted at all. ;)
    I think you are also right, it is not one sided anyway. Today i am playing in a club using a room from a store actually so combination is good. But i doubt about "products" itself sold in shops to make the game growing.

    But the first question is "why it has to grow ?". It is not a priority as long as the community is supporting 9age and try to make it more and more enjoyable to play (via event for example). Growing is a question for stores and market not for a non-profit organization.

    It is only a belief but i might be wrong concerning the 9 age team and their expectations.
  • Lich King wrote:

    Well, maybe let's agree on it being depending on a local factor.
    I know at least 6 stores within a distance of less than 50 km. Yes, community & clubs is a good point. But is there any support from the project side to those in the clubs who fight hard to convince others of their system and make it grow. Companies do! KoW does...even GW does, not speaking of independent stores at all who are able and willing to give clubs at least some discounts.

    So what do we have? No stores to be visible, no advertising on social media, no support for club. While the other systems have at least 2 out of 3.

    I'm no doomsayer. On the contrary, I think we are in a very good position right now, but this thread is about how to grow the system, right? ;)

    By the way, last time I heard someone speaking like “the others will convert to us, because they'll see our system is the superior one“ was in the Cold War. And in the end no one converted at all. ;)
    just to be clear, I absolutely think the project should support clubs and people who suppprt/promote the project in their local area.my whole point is that I think this is a better and more appropriate use of resources than gunning for store space. Sadly, we don’t seem to have the volunteers to make it happen, but I do know some absolute heroes who are doing great things in some parts of the uk.
    Being supportive & giving useful criticism aren't mutually exclusive.
    Are you supportive of the project? Do your posts reflect that?

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  • I think we should all go our respective social media Warhammer Talk Facebook groups, and just post something about T9A. Make a fake account if you don't want your regular FB to be removed from the group.

    I just did that and I legit got 4 people interested in T9A because they were avid WFB players that loved blocked units and strategy rules, and hate the way AoS plays. I told them T9A existed and bam. They're all picking up the rulebook and catching up on new rules.

    I don't think we should be aiming any of our efforts on the new guys yet (12yr olds) but instead on the old guys who played 5th, 6th, and onwards that has lost love for the game due to AoS. That market is HUGE right now because GW is really bad at managing and keeping their clientele.
  • BrykJagz wrote:

    I think we should all go our respective social media Warhammer Talk Facebook groups, and just post something about T9A. Make a fake account if you don't want your regular FB to be removed from the group.
    Would you like AoS/KoW trolls to ruin this forum? There is a number of neutral groups which accept content from various games. It is perfectly OK to post there our content. There are groups dedicated for races which are also non-discriminatory. But posting somewhere where T9A is not welcome will do more harm than good...
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  • “Taking off my 9th age staff hat and taking on my business strategy hat speaking as an individual”

    The game is not for beginners due to multiple factors:
    • game complexity and amount of rules
    • cost to buy models and associated gear
    • time commitment to build up and paint one army
    We are the gaming system sought out by veterans who have grown tired of the rule loop holes and ever changing buy-to-win meta of commercial games.

    By far the majority of our community members will have played table top before and most of them will have played either Warhammer Fantasy, Kings of War, or Age of Sigmar.

    The ease and appeal of picking up 9th age for such a player will be pivotal to the survival of our game. Guides, bridging games etc that will allow a player of each of the above systems to play a game of the 9th without making any changes to his/her existing model collections and only having to read eg 10-15 minutes worth of rules is IMO key.

    We may have all sorts of opinions of KoW or AoS but IMO we have nothing near the ability of these companies to recruit new players (although initiatives like Veil of the Ages is trying).

    Building focused strategies and tools for senior AoS and KoW players to start playing 9th age will not only be essential for us but also a synergistic relationship with model providers of Mantic and Games Workshop by which players will keep buying their models despite having lost interest in their games.

    I would personally encourage any initiative for the above.

    Just my 5-cents
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    The post was edited 1 time, last by Windelov ().

  • just a hypothesis:
    If T9A was redesigned from scratch, then I guess something like QS would be the "basic" rules and FB would be the "advanced" rules or "expert" rules with another module in between.

    For the existing player base this might be totally irrelevant, but for the way T9A is presented (website, Marketing) to potential new players this might be considered.

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  • My worry is how do we get new players in 5/10 years when the well of those who used to play WFB has run dry. Maybe we can get some from KoW, but I think that system is solid enough to satisfy it's player base. I don't see us picking up players from AoS because this is just a completely different product, scratching a very different itch. Finding players is already hard enough in many places, I don't think this is an issue we can ignore.
  • Im setting up half point skirmish games in order to get people in. A lot of players don't like the amount of time it takes to play a 4500pt game and don't feel the attachment to a large army. Im actually toying around with the idea of a homebew book where you take command of a company of troops in order to complete objectives, in which Captains and Sergeants come into play in leading small detachments of the main company. Some folks just... don't want a large army.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

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  • Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Im setting up half point skirmish games in order to get people in. A lot of players don't like the amount of time it takes to play a 4500pt game and don't feel the attachment to a large army. Im actually toying around with the idea of a homebew book where you take command of a company of troops in order to complete objectives, in which Captains and Sergeants come into play in leading small detachments of the main company. Some folks just... don't want a large army.
    ***DOES NOT COMPUTE****
  • My_Kin wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Im setting up half point skirmish games in order to get people in. A lot of players don't like the amount of time it takes to play a 4500pt game and don't feel the attachment to a large army. Im actually toying around with the idea of a homebew book where you take command of a company of troops in order to complete objectives, in which Captains and Sergeants come into play in leading small detachments of the main company. Some folks just... don't want a large army.
    ***DOES NOT COMPUTE****


    sometimes it just be like that.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

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  • Shukran wrote:

    Killteam
    Necromunda
    Aos
    "The new fantasy skirmish gw is foing to release"
    Shadespire

    If u want to play low numbers there are lot of options.
    Yeah but we kinda want people under our banner, dont we?
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
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  • Shukran wrote:

    my banner is 4500p ,3+h gameplay matches.

    Splitting community into 10different rulesets/points/mechanics is not what i call "keep ppl under my banner"
    There should still be the option.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

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  • Grouchy Badger wrote:


    sometimes it just be like that.

    i missed wise words like these : )

    i agree, we shouldnt think T9A = 4500, in my view that's a bit simplistic. so, specifically, the plan is to start with 2250pts and warband rules? does this happen at a game store (you bring minis and lists), or do newcomers have old miniatures and create their own lists?


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  • piteglio wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    sometimes it just be like that.
    i missed wise words like these : )

    i agree, we shouldnt think T9A = 4500, in my view that's a bit simplistic. so, specifically, the plan is to start with 2250pts and warband rules? does this happen at a game store (you bring minis and lists), or do newcomers have old miniatures and create their own lists?
    For my skirmish day Im going to hve 2500 point lists for the sake of 2500 looking better than 2250 setting off my REE meter. Additionally im going to have the armies already set up for folks to try with some homebrew objectives.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
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    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • The game arguably grew the most (proportionally) from 5th to 6th. Rules probably had a lot to do, but definitely the standard size of tournaments back then -at least in Spain- was 1500 and that meant people could comfortably get an army painted and running for those 3 round singles events in a few months. The approach was more minimalistic and affordable. Now it seems that if you're not doing 5 games, teams, two dayers, 4500 points, you're not playing it right. No wonder some people might find it unfeasible to start on the hobby...
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  • There were two mayor size hikes. 5->6 (full rank 4 to 5) and 7->8 (steadfast). However the 6th edition has been supported with plastic multipart sets. 8th edition increase had no real support in product range... Except for End of Times pay-to-win monsterities.
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  • Four to five rank width was 6th to 7th.

    But the size of hikes were not always GW related. Throughout all editions I played GW always advised 2000 pts as a recommended size for an evening game. Back in 5th and 6th almost all the events were at that size. Early in the 7th ed some tournament switched to 2250 and some went to 2400. With the arrival of the 8th there was another hike from 2250/2400 to 2400/2500. Adding to that the change in pricing GW did in 8th the combination of GW and TO actions resulted in some armies having as much as 60% more models compared to what they had in 5th edition.

    It should not be forgotten there were two important price drops done by GW which influenced the number of models. The drop on cavalry cost from 5th to 6th and then drop of infantry cost from mid 7th do mid 8th.

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