Hereditary spell - Breath of the lady

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  • Hereditary spell - Breath of the lady

    Do you like current hereditary?

    Do you think is useful? Too expensive? Do you use it in your games, always, sometimes, never?

    Do you feel its useless on pesants? Is that ok and should remain that way or should be mitigated somehow? How? Changing peasants or chaning the hereditary?

    Thanks for your feedback!
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    The post was edited 1 time, last by Kratos ().

  • I personally enjoy it quite a lot as it mitigates the rubber lance syndrome. I usually take it in my games on a druidism wizard, but find that the cost of the spell could maybe be reduced by 1 as it currently has a high cost for few rerolls (if cast on anything but grail busses due to their many attacks)

    Have not experimented with peasants too much due to their incompatibility with knights in combat due to bleeding combat res, but I do not find it problematic that the spell are not as efficient for peasants compared to knights.

    Overall I think the hereditary is nice as it mitigates bad rolls especially during the charges as the FIER and strength bonus are important. Previous discussions (beating a dead horse*) about lightning reflexes on charge with lance for that +1 to hit would make the hereditary less impactful, so if that were to change with the FAB, the hereditary would require some tweeks

    *Yeomen horse of course, not going to beat the precious equitanian warhorses
  • Kratos wrote:

    Do you like current hereditary?

    Do you think is useful? Too expensive? Do you use it in your games, always, sometimes, never?

    Do you feel its useless on pesants? Is that ok and should remain that way or should be mitigated somehow? How? Changing peasants or chaning the hereditary?

    Thanks for your feedback!
    I find the casting value is extremely high and there are times where I don't even take it when compared to some of the spells in Divination. Im still a little weirded out that Crusader Peasants dont have a single rule that really makes them crusadery.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

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  • Do you think is useful? Yes

    Too expensive? This is a difficult one. I feel like it's too expensive but when I look at other spells and their cost, I find that maybe I'm being too demanding. I feel that 9+ is too much. I don't think the H spell is better than The Stars Align (if casting on non grails).

    The Stars Align is 8+, for full rerolls to hit (which is a lot better than reroll 1s) and it comes with Divine Attacks into the bargain. More importantly, it has a bubble option at 12+.

    I feel that an 8+ casting value would be fine or increase the range and keep it at 9+. And please can we have a bubble version?

    Do you use it in your games, always, sometimes, never? I do usually take the Heirloom which gives me the H in addition. I run 2 Adepts, so the 5th spell gives me enough to cast something useful each turn.

    I mainly use it as a defensive spell outside of charges. Reroll 1s on armour is very good when combined with 2+ armour


    Do you feel its useless on peasants? No - it's not as good as it is on knights though.

    Is that ok and should remain that way or should be mitigated somehow? I think this is fine. It encourages mounted knights without forcing you to take them. If you want to play peasants, you can but you do so without the Lady's assistance

    How? Changing peasants or chaning the hereditary? You could change reroll 1s for armour to be +1 ARM. But honestly, I think that it's better as it is.
    Never argue with Idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
  • Klexe wrote:

    Food for thought? Would you still prefer an other totally new spell over this current one? Could you see something else more useful?
    Interesting questions.

    My preference would be to keep the current H spell but turn it into an Attribute spell that triggers whenever you successfully cast an Augment spell in a similar manner to UD. I think that we should test allowing a separate target to the original spell as the current spell overlaps with some augments and we can see how that plays.

    This encourages us to cast Augment spells (which is in keeping with the army) without ruling out hexes or damage spells explicitly – you can still cast those spells, they just don't trigger the extra bonus. The only issue with this is that it sort of steals UD's thing so I'm in two minds over it.


    Another option I thought of was an AP negation type spell. Something like:

    The Lady's Armour
    X+, One Turn, Augment, Y" range
    Each time a model in the target unit would normally roll an armour save, it may instead choose to make a Special Armour Save. This save is successful on a 3+ for cavalry, and 4+ for Infantry. You must subtract 1 from the roll for Insignificant models and for models with Towering Presence (Stacking so -2 for Insignificant & Towering Presence). A Natural 6 is always a success.
    This Special Armour Save is not modified by AP, cannot be rerolled for any reason and if it is failed the model counts as having failed an armour save[i]. The Model can then take an Aegis or Fortitude save, if it has one, as per the normal rules.


    This is a kind of anti-Alchemy spell that would allow us to protect one unit from high AP attacks. It's worth noting that alchemy would still be a tough matchup for us but we have a tool to help us a little bit. Most armies have something with AP2 or more making this spell useful against something the opponent has, even if it only persuades them to fire their cannon at something else.
    Never argue with Idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
  • The effect is nice but it is a bit too expensive for me.

    And lacking a bubble effect is pretty bad for me, since I just use divination spells when I want to buff.

    It is a cool spell, what with the good for knights bad for peasants. The way it is cast is what bothers me.
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  • The Kremlin wrote:

    the hereditary spells aren't supposed to outshine the lore spells.

    It's still an extremely powerful effect.
    It doesn't need to outshine the Lore spells, it just needs to be equivalent. Also consider that H spells don't trigger the Attributes and our Attribute spells are quite good.

    My suggestions were probably over the top, but in my experience if you ask for the world, you might get a Duchy...

    As for powerful effect, it is in theory. In practice, it's more of a nice bonus. It is less good than most of the augments that we have access to.

    Divination - without considering that a unit gains minimised roll on discipline tests or that you can boost the range with Conclave

    Know Thine Enemy is better against any enemy with high agility and / or spears or anyone where you can get the double whammy of +1 to hit, -1 to be hit. It's also cast on a 7+ or a 12+ for a 6" aura. Overall it's situational but significantly better in those situations for a lower casting value.

    Scrying is better at keeping us alive as a straight -1 to hit ignores the AP of the attack and it's cast on an 8+. There's also a 6" Aura for 12+.

    The Stars Align is reroll all hits (and hitting is KoE's main problem on the charge) and you get Divine Attacks for 8+. There's a 6" Aura for 12+. It's just better at doing what we need it to do and units with Aegis or Characters are doubly afraid of the spell. Even if the Hereditary spell was cast on an 8+, I'd prefer to cast this spell on anything that isn't a Grail Knight (so the majority of the army).

    Just the fact that you can Aura up the Divination spells makes them better as you can make the spell effect the entire combat.


    Druidism - without considering that I can heal characters (or raise with the throne up, or the bonuses when the thrones is up)

    Healing Waters is strictly better for peasants and worse for knights, unless facing flaming attacks, divine attacks or S4 (or less) high AP attacks. It's cast on a 7+ which makes it significantly easier to cast.

    Summer Growth is just awesome on expensive knights. It's an 11+ but has better range.

    Stone Skin is a lot better at protecting us. It pretty much translates as -2 to wound even without the throne on a 9+. I'd take +2 Resilience over reroll 1s 9 times out of 10.

    Shamanism - without considering that any spell cast makes my caster harder to kill.

    Awaken the Beast has more utility as it can do defense or attack but does both better when we don't charge. On the charge, I still prefer +1 Resilience over the H spell. It's cast on either a 5+ for strength or a 7+ for Res.

    Savage Fury on a 5+ for battle focus alone is better than the H spell. Double hits on 6s or reroll 1s to hit? Oh and those 1s probably still need a 4+ on the reroll... Added into the bargain you get Fearless and Frenzy. It's an 8+ for 18" range though but still better than 9+ for 18".

    Klexe wrote:

    Can you further tell me how you use this spell? When you use it? Because for me it is quite meh at best and I value all (lol almost all :)) opinions
    I cast it to draw dice. When you say it allows me to reroll 1s for armour saves, people do the whole "So your armour is 2+, rerolling 1s?" and pick up dispel dice. If it does get let through it's a nice bonus but I agree that it's not as good as casting a real spell.

    I would run a third Damsel Apprentice with Shamanism but it costs more than buying the Heirloom and I've nowhere to put her...
    Never argue with Idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
  • I see it exactly like you sully. That is why the spell is meh imo.

    I again want to clarify that the spell is good but other spells are plain better.
    The only advantage is the range if you cast it big but then it is soooo expensive.

    All paths have better spell and even the bound spell with +1 to hit is also decent imo as I can cast it to 100% with 2 dice while 8+ (master) has a 50% fail chance. Combine that we absolutely need to win the charging round 50% fail is too much.
    So imo bound spell is better then heirloom and even cheaper

    I can see its value but I still think there would be way better spells which are suited more for KoE.



    I want to discuss new spell ideas for heritage (this doesn't mean we will get a new one. Just for fun)

    What spell ideas do you think could be helpful for KoE?


    I really like this idea:


    Shield of faith:
    Universal
    x+ 18" single unit
    xx+ 6" aura
    All enemy units or friendly units without any oath hit by the spell can't declare charges next turn.


    It is so easy but so helpful. Do you have any ideas?

                    

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  • I find it very costly, but it has a good effect. I don't usually use it because I normally need to trigger the atribute of druidism, which is the lore I'm currently using. It doesn't help peasants in any way, it's defined only for knights in my opinion. I think it is outshined by the rod of battle, which helps more with the rubber lance syndrome, helps us more against parry infantry and is less costly.
  • Sir_Sully wrote:

    This is a kind of anti-Alchemy spell that would allow us to protect one unit from high AP attacks. It's worth noting that alchemy would still be a tough matchup for us but we have a tool to help us a little bit. Most armies have something with AP2 or more making this spell useful against something the opponent has, even if it only persuades them to fire their cannon at something else.
    Mr3 and Mr4 in the 2 bigger-lances and not necessary.

    Rerroll 1s is not enought when you must to hit on 4+ .......

    Hereditary to works really fine needs +1 to hit and +3 agi, then you can play druidism without a divination adept

    This spells helps because questing rule only works againts fear, is the parry solution, and the spear solution, in cases where we really have problems.

    Druidism is mandatory, and add an adept too much cost in magic. This Hereditary helps to charge against (elves spears-characters) where they kill us all knights before we can hit

    Divination: Know Thine Enemy is not enought, only works with grails, this is the reason because we need +3 agi to be a spell that helps any unit

    Divination is fine for 2 grails units, and is the solution for combat, but if no grails and no divination we need an alternative

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Thurvack ().