Concept for Prayer making a Wizard Apprentice with Hereditary Spell.

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  • Concept for Prayer making a Wizard Apprentice with Hereditary Spell.

    Had an Idea. What if KoE had the following as an Hereditary spell to replace the regular Blessing.

    Spell Name: The Blessing
    Casting Value: 6+
    Type: Augment; Repeatable
    Range: 18" Aura
    Duration: One Turn
    Target gains Aegis (X) and Magic Resistance (X), where X is the Blessed characteristic value written on the unit profile.

    And, the following Special Rules.

    Prayer
    Before rolling for the first turn (at the beginning of step 7 of the Deployment PhaseSequence), decide if the Kingdom of Equitaine army Prays or not. If it does, choose a single model with type character. The chosen model gains the Hereditary Spell, The Blessing. If the model is not a Wizard, the chosen model becomes a Wizard Apprentice with The Blessing as the only spell the model knows.

    Blessed
    Some unit profiles in this Army Book contain the additional Characteristic Blessed, shortened Bls, which determines the value of Aegis and Magic Resistance a model gains from The Blessing (Hereditary).

    Army Design Team

  • People have liked the idea of trading Magic Dice for increased Blessing. The downside of that is it requires a new type of book keeping and equates to having a 5++ where ever it is needed most. The current Blessing is an Invisible Bonus that cannot be modeled. So the idea above resolves both those issues by using the magic system. The spell would be repeatable so it can be cast multiple times. Because so many magic dice would be getting used, I have it also effecting Magic Resistance in order to help in magic defense, and hopefully carry some Veil Tokens over from round to round. There are downsides, such as not getting the spell off at all, or having the character with the spell sniped. I was thinking this is something we could do to make the rest of the army more elite or less expensive as well.

    It was just a little epiphany I had. Doesn't mean this is a great idea or anything, but certainly an idea to share and write down.

    Army Design Team

  • Quite frankly I like this idea.

    Short summary it would mean this
    1. Remove all ward saves from ALL units
    2. Add an wardsave buff as heritage which is repeatable


    What will happen?

    1. All knights get cheaper as we loose the ward
    2. Drudismn regeneration gets a huge buff
    3. Better gameplay as enemy shooting will be more effective against us (less avoidance)
    4. Key gameplay. We can pressure in certain fights with this repeatable spells



    It would still hold the old idea of wardsave army intact while enable cheaper knights without wardsave.

    Expection? What about grail oath/knights?
    What about toxic?



    Next question? Do we need the blessed value? Why not just make it wardsave +2 with 4+ maximum (some combos with items possible) less complexity

    Like the prayer idea

    Think is it will be a hard nerf. We loose our current heritage and our in build wardsave.
    What do we want in return? Are point reduction enough? For me it would be enough as alone +1 medium Lance more would help very much vs hard counters like toxic and other stuff

                    

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  • Other idea:

    Prayer:
    At start.... If the player decides to pray all non wizzard characters can cast the heritage as if they were wizzard (they don't count as wizzard for Divination conclave) for each non wizzard character the KoE player gets - 1 for the roll beggining.

                    

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  • 00TnT00 wrote:

    This would make us pretty vulnerable to any army with one or two scrolls of binding, in fact, something that is a trademark for us, the special save, could be completely negated for two turns completely... I don't know if I like it so much. If we get some kind of in built aegis that improves with the spell I would like it much more.
    This.

    A generic 6+ aegis and then a spell.
    And remove the legacy silly drawback of not going first.
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  • 00TnT00 wrote:

    This would make us pretty vulnerable to any army with one or two scrolls of binding, in fact, something that is a trademark for us, the special save, could be completely negated for two turns completely... I don't know if I like it so much. If we get some kind of in built aegis that improves with the spell I would like it much more.
    Exactly. There is counter play. This means the point cost should be reduced for each knight model by quite a margin.

                    

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  • Could live with it i guess. I woulf play safe and still maintain 6++ on some knights units. Questers, grails, crusaders. Probably. Or matbe all knights.

    Make the spell give +1 ward save, max 4++. Peasants would get a 6++ when cast on them.

    Grail oath could give 2++ vs toxic. If dragom princes are inmune to fire and alchemy, grails should be inmune to corruption.
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  • Remember having many options for casting this spell could mean we could buff peasants or even normal knights to 4++

    See like current DL book.

    I think starting at zero ward for core knights and 6++ for some expection and perhaps 5++ for grails is the best way?

    I just see zero ward at start as good because I dislike the current regeneration spell from drudismn so much.... Everytime my brother cast its he gets a huge buff... And I can't use it at all...

    Well there are many choices but I like the ward as heritage the most currently.

    All Damsel should have access
    Wizzard conclave should have acvess
    Warrior Damsel should have access
    Grail Oath or certain chars should have access.

    If it is a 4+ spell repeatable? Then we can get some through.


    On the other hand it should have a second perks.

    Because let's see drudismn. We get a 5++ and a heal at once (I assume enemy bans +2R)
    As heritage it should have an advtange over regeneration.
    7+ cast for a 5++

    So +1 ward should be around 4+ to cast. That even one dice could work.


    Example you have 3 caster. You have a 8/5 phase.
    You use 2/2/4 dice. Or even 2/2/3/1 dice.
    This most likely means enemy will ban your 3 dice and perhaps your one dice. This means you get a, +2 ward to any unit at least or even a +3

    But with 8/5? Drudismn? You would cast throne with perhaps 2 then 3 stone and 3 regeneration.
    You get most likely a 4++ or enemy risk for stone and regnerstion and getting 1 revive.

    So even on 4+ a +1 ward seems meh...

    But that are quirks we don't need right now to talk about.


    I guess 4+ for +1 ward and a high range is a good balance like 24"? Add an extra heroic component to it.

    Like spell gets +2 to cast if the target unit declared a charge this turn?

                    

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  • Marcos24 wrote:

    I DEFINITLEY do not want to pay more for Grails because they can cast spells. They’re warriors! What they do should directly and only affect combat
    Depending how they become after rework they will be a completly new unit. No real reason to disregard ideas with current book in mind. This is just only an idea tank and we are throwing around ideas

    @echoCTRL
    I would like these units to have access to the heritage:
    1. Damsel
    2. Warrior damsel
    3. Grail oath character (a new entry)
    4. One item/virtue
    5. Conclave
    Spell:
    +1 to ward with a maximum of 4+
    Cast: 4+ repeatable range 24"

    No Wardsave for all knights (execptions possible / new anti toxic rule needed)
    Add this as rule
    Blessed by courage / leading by example
    The heritage gets +2 to cast(execption to rule blabla) if the target unit did the following before
    • Issue a duel in the last close combat phase or fighting in a duel
    • Declare a charge
    • Overrun or following a fleeing unit


    At least 2 entries should have always access to the spell.
    On avg i guess it will be 3? (2mages(2 damsel or damsel + conclave), item)


    It promotes aggressive melee combat. It dislikes avoidance.
    A master damsel casting it on a unit above will cost 1 dice and fail 16% of the time.
    Is it op? Hell no. We trade one dice on unit for the same effect of now! The difference is!
    1. It is stackable.
    2. We can focus on one important fight
    3. Items for Characters finally make more sense (looking at you +1as and regi armor or talisman)
    4. WAY cheaper knights (currently our knights cost include a 5++ ward... if we remove this.. perhaps that is like 5ppm less? That could mean on avg 110 points more in core and around the same special and perhaps 50 points characters = around 300 points = one full knight unit [that is just an estimation...i dont do the points but imo the ward for KoE cost around 48-29-9-4 = 6ppm (that are 2+ EoS core WS4 entry)]
    5. Now people will say one 6er unit (it would be 7 realms then) doesnt look much... well if you play 30 knights and get 6 for free? that is 20% increase in wounds, attacks etc...and one more scoring, flanker, chaff etc :P




    I do really think this is the way to go for KoE heritage.

                    

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  • It sounds quite harsh to enable a spell on 2+ with only 1 a misscast...but seeing that Regeneration is cast on 7+ so 2/3 dice easily for always 5++ and healing one wound and having access from lakes i do think this is fine. Especially KoE isnt like DL where you can generate almost unlimited magic.

    Playing a normal magic phase with drudismn would mean:
    Casting throne. Getting it
    Casting regernation. Getting it and reviving one model
    Casting stone and it gets banned

    Now my knights have a 4++

    Heritage? well for 4++ we need to roll 3 dice and not failing one.
    This means on avg we have 4 left while the enemy has 5 left.

    Enemy will most likely disspell any dmg buff or break the spirit or other stuff. like totem or reroll to hit and we can get a 4++ on unit.

    Divine is stronger then regeneration but we cant revive and have a chance of 3x16% to fail while regneration could also potentional fail.


    also it would be very very easy to balance:
    Reduce the bonus to 1? or increase by 1 and let bonus be 2.

                    

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  • Marcos24 wrote:

    Or how about a NEW character that fights/casts spells that MAY take Grail Oath. Rather than forcing a cost increase on a warrior for something that may not even affect his fighting. Did you guys forget about troubadour?
    As you can read above I did exactly that :)
    I agree that grail knights as unit are sub optimal

                    

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  • I did not read that, the second i saw the idea to give grails spells i felt the need to reply. I would find it a good idea if it was a redundant spell that would affect his/their own unit, SO LONG as its a spell that affects combat (not magic resistance/magic missiles) such as scrying/beast within/know they enemy etc etc, only to all but guarantee casting it