square bases for AoS ?!

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The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is here! You can read all about it in the news.

Our beta phase is finally over. Download The Ninth Age: Fantasy Battles, 2nd Edition now!

  • Pigtails wrote:

    It's also a little disappointing to hear that it's going to be, what sounds like, primarily 9th Scroll material just compiled for a republish. I guess I was imagining something more broad about setting and armies rather than stories. At least its news! Looking forward to seeing something.
    Well some people want a constant drip feed of information... What obviously can't happen is everything to be finished and released soon
  • Mercenary Armies wrote:

    So no hidden bg?
    Not sure what this means... We work on the underpinnings beneath the published material, and then publish it once it's ready to form material.

    Pigtails wrote:

    Well, this highlights issues of communication to say the least. It wasn't particularly clear that it was even being worked on outside of being brought up in a few threads before as an 'eventually hopefully' thing. Glad to at least have something kind of confirmed.

    It's also a little disappointing to hear that it's going to be, what sounds like, primarily 9th Scroll material just compiled for a republish. I guess I was imagining something more broad about setting and armies rather than stories. At least its news! Looking forward to seeing something.
    It wasn't primarily 9th Scroll material, just a way to get it out to people who wanted more information. And the pages in the 9th Scroll are much more of an overview rather than stories, while still being in-world.

    As said, it's taken a long time to get there, in order to do justice to the material.

    Executive Board

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    Team Scotland ETC 2019 Captain

    "I think of the Abyss as being a pretty good catch all term."
  • JimMorr wrote:

    Hombre de Mundo wrote:

    If you want proof of small organisations designing and promoting their own games exclusively - and successfully - through the internet, look no further than the website you're on.
    Well I believe our game was promoted thanks to existing ETC community, not thanks to this website. And despite having such boost in the beginning it failed to reach most players not connected to tournament scene... roughly 90% of old community.
    Sorry for self-quote but I noticed something far more important @Hombre de Mundo. The 9th Age is not a small organization. At some point there was information that there are roughly 300 people in all Teams in total. Lets say there were 200 active members on average in the last four years. This includes everyone engaged in the Project - from Lawyers advising project, through our dear Mod Team, IT Support, Supervisors and PR to Artists, Writers, Rule Designers, Data Analysts, beta-testers, Layout specialists, translators... and probably a few more I forgot or do not even know they exist.

    This army of people is working to make The Ninth Age possible. Even if the active members spend only 20 minutes a day on average for the project they are equivalent of team of 8.25 people working full time: 66 hours a day. If a small company wanted to hire 8.25 specialists to develop a game and yo pay them for 4 years of their work the costs would be... 1,822,867.20 EUR. (4 years, 21 working days a month, 66 hours a day, 27,4 EUR average Labour Cost in EU).

    Let's say it again

    1,822,867.20 EUR


    This is a my rough estimate of the cost of labour involved in this project. Maybe I have overestimated it. Maybe a company could be more efficient. Divide it by 5. Still no small company would be able to invest 360k EUR in a game to sell a few miniatures. We are talking about impossibility for a small company even to develop a game. Promoting it would double the cost.
    StormRider Games
    StormRider Facebook
    _____________Current goals:
    • Launch crowdfunding campaign to publish The IXth Age Legendary rulebook in Hardcover
    • Convert and paint army of Ogres for my son
  • @JimMorr

    I mean, it depends entirely on what kind of game you'd want to make. If you want to make a complex game featuring dozens of models on each side in different formations, with different abilities and stats, something akin to T9A and then also include over a dozen factions all balanced for competetive tournament play right from the get-go of your game's launch, then that's obviously a much larger undertaking, not to mention all the models and artwork etc that goes into making that kind of game.

    However, you can also choose to make a game that uses fewer models, simpler rules and not as many factions. You can expand on your base game once it's released and make it more complex or put in more content as time goes by.

    It's really no different than making a video game. It's super easy to make and promote, compared to 20 years ago. Almost anyone can do it (doesn't mean it'll be good but you can do it). However, that doesn't mean everyone has the resources to make a gigantic AAA game like Total War. And I feel like you're looking at the biggest, most complex games around and say "no way you can do this with a small team" but that's not where you should be looking.
    Did I mention my first video game title is coming soon?
  • Hombre de Mundo wrote:

    It's really no different than making a video game. It's super easy to make and promote,
    HdM, since im reaping very little success with the promotion of my own T9A videogame (half a dozen like, and that's on the T9A forum, which should be interested or at least curious!), could you please share a word of wisdom on how to do effective promotion? : )

    (i trust this is not offtopic - we're still talking about things that differentiate us from the new old world)

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  • JimMorr wrote:

    JimMorr wrote:

    Hombre de Mundo wrote:

    If you want proof of small organisations designing and promoting their own games exclusively - and successfully - through the internet, look no further than the website you're on.
    Well I believe our game was promoted thanks to existing ETC community, not thanks to this website. And despite having such boost in the beginning it failed to reach most players not connected to tournament scene... roughly 90% of old community.
    Sorry for self-quote but I noticed something far more important @Hombre de Mundo. The 9th Age is not a small organization. At some point there was information that there are roughly 300 people in all Teams in total. Lets say there were 200 active members on average in the last four years. This includes everyone engaged in the Project - from Lawyers advising project, through our dear Mod Team, IT Support, Supervisors and PR to Artists, Writers, Rule Designers, Data Analysts, beta-testers, Layout specialists, translators... and probably a few more I forgot or do not even know they exist.
    This army of people is working to make The Ninth Age possible. Even if the active members spend only 20 minutes a day on average for the project they are equivalent of team of 8.25 people working full time: 66 hours a day. If a small company wanted to hire 8.25 specialists to develop a game and yo pay them for 4 years of their work the costs would be... 1,822,867.20 EUR. (4 years, 21 working days a month, 66 hours a day, 27,4 EUR average Labour Cost in EU).

    Let's say it again

    1,822,867.20 EUR


    This is a my rough estimate of the cost of labour involved in this project. Maybe I have overestimated it. Maybe a company could be more efficient. Divide it by 5. Still no small company would be able to invest 360k EUR in a game to sell a few miniatures. We are talking about impossibility for a small company even to develop a game. Promoting it would double the cost.

    Most of the time what can be done here can't be done by a company and viceversa. We work on different parameters.

    So we should study and enhance our own workflow.

    This is a deep and important topic, as for instance, if we can't have enough fresh blood, or better, without a recycle of human resources, we'll run out of steam soon or later (burnouts, departures, etc.).

    I feel like reducing bottlenecks and empowering our large base is the right way to go in order to solve today's slow-down. Another time of crisis (i feel like an Asimov's character now) could coincide with the release of the last Legendary Armybooks.

    In my opinion the most important thing to do, as you seem to point out, is optimising our resources.

    In a far-distant future, we could even coordinate our teams globally to maximise the impact of some marketing strategies. QS pre-made lists flash mobs? No, even better!

    P.S. can we open another thread? Or rename this one?
  • Hombre de Mundo wrote:

    And I feel like you're looking at the biggest, most complex games around and say "no way you can do this with a small team" but that's not where you should be looking.


    Of course you can create a small game for a small community. Example of such successful project is here: Song of Blades: Hammer and Forge. But... do you really believe future of wargaming is 300 small companies each releasing own game only a few hundred people in the world ever heard about? Because this is the reach of such projects. SoB had 480 backers. The Breach by @piteglio had 128 backers. And for each such successful project there are 20 which fail or even never make it to KS.

    Please note also, that both Andrea Sfiligoi and Damon Richardson who were behind SoB are game designers. Song of Blades engine was ready. @piteglio had access to existing player base. A small independent miniature company will never have resources like that.
    StormRider Games
    StormRider Facebook
    _____________Current goals:
    • Launch crowdfunding campaign to publish The IXth Age Legendary rulebook in Hardcover
    • Convert and paint army of Ogres for my son
  • piteglio wrote:

    Hombre de Mundo wrote:

    It's really no different than making a video game. It's super easy to make and promote,
    HdM, since im reaping very little success with the promotion of my own T9A videogame (half a dozen like, and that's on the T9A forum, which should be interested or at least curious!), could you please share a word of wisdom on how to do effective promotion? : )
    (i trust this is not offtopic - we're still talking about things that differentiate us from the new old world)
    Having dipped my own toes into video game development in the past, there is one person in particular who I consider to be an expert in grassroots video game promotion:

    Chris Zukowski

    He gave a talk at GDC 2019 and was the highest rated summit speaker that year.
  • piteglio wrote:

    HdM, since im reaping very little success with the promotion of my own T9A videogame (half a dozen like, and that's on the T9A forum, which should be interested or at least curious!), could you please share a word of wisdom on how to do effective promotion? : )
    Maybe... I'm not even sure I'm all that good at promotion. But it's always fun to talk about so feel free to hit me up in PMs :)

    JimMorr wrote:



    But... do you really believe future of wargaming is 300 small companies each releasing own game only a few hundred people in the world ever heard about?
    No, not at all. In fact, I don't see much of a need for a company to release their own game at all. I think most companies will transition to making 3D models that can be used for a multitude of games such as T9A, D&D etc. Like I said earlier, the games aren't required to sell models.
    Did I mention my first video game title is coming soon?
  • All this conversation should maybe rather go in the « Going forward » thread……

    The Background Compendium…… Yes indeed it is « just » a collection of the stuff already published in the scroll. Or rather, the stuff in the Scroll were « spoilers » of the upcoming Compendium.
    Plus the missing factions : Hold Dwarves, Daemon Legions, Undying Dynasties, and of course, the Vampire Covenant (of which we know absolutely nothing apart from a few hidden hints here and there). Are they going to be published in the Scroll first, or are they going to be released firstly as part of the Compendium ? :)

    Some might find it « disappointing », but on the other hand, it means it can be easily published in one material, and that is especially important for the translation. Because all those articles are already translated and can be layouted in one document, whereas the alternative is to leave them in the Scroll, which means to get them to, say, the French audience, I need to translate every one of the Scrolls fully and lay them out fully. Which would take years, as noone is really motivated to do that.

    Also, that is just the first step to much, much more background material released in the future. It is basically the BG team presenting us the foundations of the BG for every one of the 16 factions of the game.


    I believe a link to the Miniature Gallery is already included in every Army book, but maybe it could be featured more prominently ? As it stands it is easy to just overlook it. It could be better to make it like one big sentence on one full page, written in big letters.
    GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
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    The post was edited 1 time, last by Ghiznuk ().

  • I found the background compendium massively disappointing, personally. And kinda insulting to all the factions who get nothing.
    A summary of all proposed ideas from the VS LAB brainstorm thread

    Collection of all offcially posted Vermin background

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  • Ghiznuk wrote:

    ...


    I believe a link to the Miniature Gallery is already included in every Army book, but maybe it could be featured more prominently ? As it stands it is easy to just overlook it. It could be better to make it like one big sentence on one full page, written in big letters.
    I did not find such a link, but I like the idea.