LAB spoilers Discussion Thread

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The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is available! You can read all about it in the news.

The brand new army book for Infernal Dwarves is finally available, along with a small surprise! Remember that it is a beta version, and provide us your feedback!

  • Kasocles wrote:

    Great, so whatabout those spoilers ey?

    Could you answer if the Overlord is being redesigned?
    Depends what you mean with redesign.
    His design (chosen leader of a citadel and decent combatant) is going to be the same.
    That doesn't mean his rules are going to be the same (they won't).
    There also was a Zhanta hint about his rules :).
  • pannu84 wrote:

    We are already in February
    Your point being?

    If its finished in March, it's gonna be released in March.
    If its finished in April, it's gonna be release in April.
    And so on.

    No one (as far as I know) ever said it's going be released in February, January or any specifc date/month.

    The project aims to release 4 books a year.
    That is once the whole procedure is running! ID was/is the very first LAB with the new procedure. Currently 2 are in the works and I'm certain the third will be announced "shortly".
  • wokrze wrote:

    Shako wrote:

    Currently 2 are in the works and I'm certain the third will be announced "shortly".
    The second one in the works is DE, right?
    PS. Do you expect to end 2020 with ID book in "beta" or "out of beta"?
    Yes, the second one is DE.

    I personally (and don't take this as any more than it is - an uneducated guess) wouldn't be surprised either way. Though if by the end of the year it's beta, I'd say about as beta as DL has been since before the recent update (= very close to gold and only minimal changes being done anymore).
  • Harmonize wrote:

    Are we getting close to a new spoiler ?
    New 9th Scrolls have had new info so far, so take that as the latest you will get new info.

    Now as for the next quote...

    tuba hero wrote:

    Or to the new book? :P


    Look what you made me do. I used a non-prequel Star Wars quote. Are you happy!?

    Also in the meantime, here is something for ID players to get stuck into...

    Creating the Siege Tower

    Lord of the Hobby

    The Great Horde of Chaos <-My hobby blog Tyranno's Ride into the Steppes <-My Makhar hobby/army-list blog
  • Tyranno wrote:

    Harmonize wrote:

    Are we getting close to a new spoiler ?
    New 9th Scrolls have had new info so far, so take that as the latest you will get new info.
    Now as for the next quote...

    tuba hero wrote:

    Or to the new book? :P

    Look what you made me do. I used a non-prequel Star Wars quote. Are you happy!?

    Also in the meantime, here is something for ID players to get stuck into...

    Creating the Siege Tower
    Of course I am happy! The 4 to 6 Star Wars movies are the best ones!
  • I'll say this now and get it off my chest.

    You guys really don't get how spoilers work. That much is evident.

    Vague posting is fine on some level, but when it has been pre-Christmas that things first got mentioned and it has essentially been two months that it has been in 'internal playtesting' without anything more solid to show for it is telling. Bits and pieces of single lines and cryptic descriptions is not satisfying to read and doesn't really generate honest discussion - without something even a little concrete it's hard to talk about it.

    Today, a post was made on the Warhammer Community site. It's kind of a good example of where to start.

    warhammer-community.com/2020/0…bolismgw-homepage-post-2/

    In the post they pick a unit, give a little bit of fluff on them, and show off some very nice models. It's enough to hang an article on certainly. There is proof of an idea that has been realized and suggests more to come. This is kind of the baseline to shoot for. Since 9th really has miniatures to speak of, you can make do with 200 words about the purpose of the unit and a statblock or a special rule or whatever.

    warhammer-community.com/2019/0…-golemgw-homepage-post-4/

    In this one they speak specifically about a warband where they touch on fluff and mechanics briefly to give a pretty good overview of the faction. It has examples of the rules and stats in full. Here you can get a sense of design intention and how pieces fit together. This is probably the far end of the 'spoiler' territory in how much it outright it tells you.

    the-ninth-age.com/IMG/pdf/issue_19_final.pdf

    On page 4 and 5 there's.... a little info you can gleam about things, but only in the most broad strokes. The meat of the information that really helps generate discussion is in this very thread, at least in terms of mechanics, and even still it's done in a sort of clumsy way. I don't think that it's for a want of trying that it comes off like that but just experience and a miscommunication (or no communication at all) of player expectations for what ought to be spoiled.

    If the book is at a stage of internal playtesting, I take that to mean you've got the redesigns down more or less fully. Points and specifics of stats might move around as needed but nothing as sweeping or dramatic as adding a new unit entry or giving an army-wide rule on a regular basis, but to try and tinker and tune things. If you're playtesting though the impression is you have these things worked out to a degree they are functional, and that is very relevant information to show off. With the caveat of 'this is something we have so far and are comfortable sharing, but specifics might get tweaked by release', I don't think anyone is going to get their pitchforks.

    Maybe I'm wrong about what that means and you're still on step 1 of design. It's not very clear.

    I hope that in the future someone a bit more savvy in terms of media can lead spoilers for books. At the moment it's pretty disjointed and people could probably benefit from a 'spoiler guy' who has the sole job of just getting this kind of thing ready for the incoming material - not just the army books, but projects in the community as well. If the plan really is to get up to four books rolling a year, then they'll have enough on the plate to kind of keep interest at a reasonably high clip rather than these really small peaks and deep troughs of engagement.

    I say this as someone still relatively new to fantasy and with very little experience with chaos dwarves; I played all of two games with them and enjoyed it, and I can see a lot in the book I like as it is. Call it a distant side-project I hope to work on. Every time I see a post here it's very much a 'huh' and a shrug on the wait for things to be rolled out in full.

    tldr: going forwards put a little more out there. theres no reason for a quarter of the posts to be "when is it out," and i think a part of that genuinely comes from how spoilers are handled not only for this book but others.
  • Thank you for your critique,

    I'd like to adress a couple of points, though only shortly for the time being, as I'm under some time constraints yet want to answer you.


    Pigtails wrote:

    You guys really don't get how spoilers work. That much is evident.
    That might be a bit harsh. PR is one area the project did lack manpower but the project is aware of it and is trying to do more.
    @Tyranno for example does a phenomenal job writing articles for the 9th scroll and including his own models.
    Also see here:
    the-ninth-age.com/community/in…creating-the-siege-tower/

    Of course, there's always room for improvement.


    Pigtails wrote:

    Today, a post was made on the Warhammer Community site. It's kind of a good example of where to start.

    Pigtails wrote:

    This is kind of the baseline to shoot for.

    We won't compare ourselves to an actual company. This is a volunteer project. The people do spend their free time on it, sometimes even their own money. Receiving nothing.
    The standard of a profit-company are others.


    Pigtails wrote:

    If the book is at a stage of internal playtesting, I take that to mean you've got the redesigns down more or less fully. Points and specifics of stats might move around as needed but nothing as sweeping or dramatic as adding a new unit entry or giving an army-wide rule on a regular basis, but to try and tinker and tune things.
    That is actually were you are wrong.
    Even army wide rules can still be changed right now and have for the last iterations. Hence we only do spoilers if we're sure these concept WILL stick. We don't want to hype something up for some people, only for those to find out what they were looking for has been changed for something else.
    The level of changes you're thinking about is something which will be done once we're in public beta (this is as far as I know, I can't guarantee the 100% accuracy of the last sentence).

    However ths does not mean:

    Pigtails wrote:

    Maybe I'm wrong about what that means and you're still on step 1 of design.
    The whole process is done in agile form, everything is worked on simultaneously, so it's not at step 1. Step 1 is long done. But everything will be reviewed in every iteration again to not lose the big-picture. What one would think is a small change (lets say a weapon option for a unit) can cascade to several other units aswell so the overall book makes sense in itself.


    Pigtails wrote:

    I hope that in the future someone a bit more savvy in terms of media can lead spoilers for books. At the moment it's pretty disjointed and people could probably benefit from a 'spoiler guy' who has the sole job of just getting this kind of thing ready for the incoming material - not just the army books, but projects in the community as well.
    See my above statement about PR :).


    Pigtails wrote:

    I say this as someone still relatively new to fantasy and with very little experience with chaos dwarves
    Infernal Dwarves. This is quite a big difference which will be clear once the LAB is out with all the background!
    There's no point in denying that CD were the basis back when the project startet, nobody would argue here, but the project long ago became its own game and want to develop this further.



    Pigtails wrote:

    tldr: going forwards put a little more out there. theres no reason for a quarter of the posts to be "when is it out," and i think a part of that genuinely comes from how spoilers are handled not only for this book but others.
    Again, I want to genuine thank you for your post and critique.
    This is the first time a LAB is being done with the new design and the project has learned from it and will continue to do so.
    Thank you.