UD players feedback for the new ID book

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The brand new army book for Infernal Dwarves is finally available, along with a small surprise! Remember that it is a beta version, and provide us your feedback!

  • Palmu wrote:

    I do not like that Hereditary spell, it's essentially a reverse Wrath of God where it murders blocks and does nothing to tiny units.

    And heavily background-driven design is great, but there's such a thing as going overboard on pushing the narratives in units.
    Plus a low casting value and it isn't as bad against many gigantic units that rely on AS, Rig and Res to survive WoG and with this new spell they get similar wounds.

    Think about Sphinx that can go nearly unscathed from WoG but probably will get 1-2 wounds from this spell.
  • Well, a Sphinx that's been made flammable has just as high a chance to take 0 wounds than it has of taking 2. It's just 3 hits, after all. Although a Sphinx can pull off both Armor and Regen against a WoG, true enough.

    The spell is directly comparable to WoG, but indeed, it's a WoG that you can cast with 2 dice. That's not too shabby!

    Time will tell how well an ID army can push all their synergies into the same list, at the moment it seems that they can mix and match a whole lot, though.
    Life is hard when you're a skeleton
  • First pass I think the book looks pretty amazing. complex but I thought the same of daemons until I became more familiar with that book. Players including me didn't like losing the fun or complexity.. Well they're back. And this is a beta it will be polished.

    The emphasis on flaming as a tool and a weakness, the mobile bastions, the feeling of a mechanized daemonic infused grinding advancement is just awesome. I don't really know ID so this is my impression just from the rules.



    MAIN CONCERNS
    (costs aside)

    Theres a big stinker at the start that takes away from the dwarven feel and its taurukh ritual. Its too commonly available and too tasty. Its not dwarven IMO even for ID giving the impression of a fast mounted army which is out of place. Combine with 3 bulls and taurukh buses and this IS a mounted army with serious ranged support. I say DELETE this upgrade and the vision of the book is much more clear.

    It seems ID ranged game has increased significantly, to the point ID can play avoidance with zoning counter punch better than intended.



    DETAILS
    Theres also a few things which seem a bit much:

    -accurate artillery (they're move or fire anyway maybe should remove MoF, and instead gains accurate when moving closer)

    -blunderbuss- Lost s5 and the large units amplifying ability.
    Gained plate armour, gained 8" range, gained double shots, gained ap 1, gained reroll 1s at short range, retained QTF, retained march and shoot. These things will delete res 3 units with impunity. Elves meet ur makers hahaha! But sadly also humans skellies and many others who don't deserve that kinda pain. Also more effective against high res monsters. But seriously the former version was aggressive. The greater range and effectiveness means the unit has less incentive to close aggressively with the enemy.

    Edit- did some math it's not that bad. And please keep this I'm sick of elves crying for no reason so here's another one.


    flintlocks- now with march and shoot for increased range, presumably to compete with the newly improved BB.
    These two weapons gained quite a bit, combined feels like one fix stacked on another to keep them semi equal. Before we were looking at 19" and 21" threat range. Now its 27" which is huge. So 1" difference from bows and on such a superior platform and superior weapon.
    I have yet to check costs or do any math so maybe there were some inherent problems non ID players are not aware of. I guess overall I'm looking at the power of the core choices, whether minimum size BBs or the new spear armed and they are strong.

    Lastly the giant seems ridiculously better than other giants. Not that I think its necessarily OP but definitely under costed and it makes me wonder about the future of the giant race. Will all giants be in the same ballpark as a 3+/(5++ flaming) hard cover distracting for 330 pts?

    Overall I love the feel of the book besides those mentioned and I think its a solid beta. Make a few tweaks and I have no problem with it. Great work to the LAB team.
    "Realistically (unless you're DanT or some other genius) you need characters.." -Sir_Sully

    AVOIDANCE FAILS 28% OF THE TIME FOLKS. -SE

    The post was edited 4 times, last by Stygian ().

  • - The Accurate Artillery are immobile, literally, they have Adv/Mar 0. We were trying to distinguish between the Gunnery Teams, the Infernal Artillery and the (prev name) Bound Daemon (now Steel Juggernaut) (all of which had slim units on different bases). The basic Infernal Artillery being immobile emplaced weapons is their identity; moving guns are the other ones.

    - The previous ID Giant saw very little play. We tried to ratchet it up a bit to get him actually into lists. I hope we didn't overshoot the mark, but maybe we did. It's plausible the Tower Shield will get redesigned and/or price-hiked, depending on the data.

    Background Team

  • I think both designs are fine but should come with cost increases. And probably will with time.

    I do wonder if UD has a weakness in shooting and movement? Or is it a strength I honestly can't tell but it would be helpful to know this.
    "Realistically (unless you're DanT or some other genius) you need characters.." -Sir_Sully

    AVOIDANCE FAILS 28% OF THE TIME FOLKS. -SE
  • Movement is definitely a weakness.
    UD units are slower than average for their type, combined with the inability to march outside IP makes UD a pretty slow army.
    We kind of compensate this with our special deployment (Vanguard, Scout, Ambush, Autonomous).

    Armor is also another weakness for UD.
    Our infantry has armor 2, our cavalry armor 3 and our best armored unit have armor 4.
    This is pretty pathetic compared to other armies.

    Shooting I would hope to be a small strength. A mass of archers blocking the sun with their arrows is kind of iconic for UD.
    In practice we have low quality high quantity in our skeletons and low quantity high quality in our statutes.
  • I figured movement was a weakness. For UD it must be a much harder weakness.

    And shooting doesn't seem like a strength, more of a low end of average. If it is a strength then it isn't properly represented.

    Anyway not the right thread just wondering. Not sure where to look for the current list of strengths and weaknesses.
    "Realistically (unless you're DanT or some other genius) you need characters.." -Sir_Sully

    AVOIDANCE FAILS 28% OF THE TIME FOLKS. -SE
  • There isn't a currently public list of strengths and weaknesses. Doing so was unpopular and was scrapped.

    When UD is being loaded for LAB work, it'll be spelled out more, but note that where it ends up being aimed at for the LAB might be above or below where it objectively is right now; the LABs can change things. Strengths can diminish or grow, weaknesses can be patched over or worsened, and new aspects can come to the fore. There's no real point in the project trying to say "this is what the strengths and weaknesses of UD are"; the game speaks for itself. It's far more useful to say "this is what we will try and have them be in the future".


    I would guess the major UD strengths are magic and buffing (that is, non-spell-based budding); in guidelines, UD has been pointed to as a "don't be as synergistic as UD units are" for armies that don't have a strength in buffing. Possibly with Special Deployment as an additional strength (Underground Advance is good).

    Shooting is possibly more in the "not below average" category - something that is neither a major weakness nor a major strength.

    Movement as a weakness seems fair, but I'd say "independence" is also potentially one. WDG has a strength in going wide (it just doesn't really care about any "bubbles"), while UD has the opposite (stay in bubble or slow to a crawl).

    Background Team

  • OK good to know.

    I'm keeping a positive attitude, so having some idea of other armies potential for their LAB plays into that for me when evaluating ID. I see this as completely new direction compared to past revisions which were mostly strip downs and some hot fixes with pts tweaks. I hope this type of gloves off approach is the case for all factions. A chance to be more than a revision of GWs creations.
    "Realistically (unless you're DanT or some other genius) you need characters.." -Sir_Sully

    AVOIDANCE FAILS 28% OF THE TIME FOLKS. -SE
  • Yup, the LAB are a complete do-over for the factions, based on the 9th Age background.

    Until now, all redesign had been done to all 16 factions simultaneously, so the scope of each update had to be pretty small.
    Even redesigning 5 units was a monumental 80 entries when you consider all factions.
    So now that the 2.0 rulebook has been released, each faction is getting fully redesigned.
  • As for one who played against the New ID and seen it in play 2 times more, I would like to give some feedback.

    Before the game: The book itself is amazing lots of options and cool rules love it! But I feel they could have been written better, it's a lot text which can seem confusing.

    The game - Spoils of war:

    The UD army was:
    Death Cult Hierarch, Hierophant, Wizard Adept
    Book of Arcane Master
    Path of Divination

    Death Cult Hierarch, Wizard Adept
    Binding Scroll,
    Path of Evocation,

    4x Skeleton Chariots, Legion Charioteers, Musician

    4x Skeleton Chariots, Legion Charioteers, Musician

    3x Skeleton Chariots, Legion Charioteers, Musician

    Battle Sphinx

    Battle Sphinx

    Colossus, Paired Weapons

    15 Necropolis Guard, Paired Weapons, Musician Mus

    3 Sand Stalkers, Underground Ambush

    3 Sand Stalkers, Underground Ambush

    3 Sand Stalkers, Underground Ambush

    The ID army was (from my memory):

    Lord with some protection and Ring of Desiccation
    BSB with stuff
    Master mage with fire on Infernal Bastion and Triple Speed

    Big block of Citadel guards with Flintlock Axe and flaming banner

    Big block of vassels with bows

    Lamassu Scholar

    5 Vassal Cavalry

    2x Vassal Slingshot

    Gunnery Team - Naphtha Thrower

    Infernal Engine - Rocket Battery

    Kadim Titan

    On roster level I felt pretty good, the sand stalkers give me a good chance to deal with the shooting train and some of the other low agility stuff.

    Short summary I won 11-9

    My Sandstalkers came up early and removed the Infernal Engine in turn 2 so we never really saw its potential except it removed 3 chariots with shooting and magic.

    With magic and shooting he removed most of my army, but I had the scenario.

    My thoughts on the ID

    The Flaming Sword/flaming banner combo with Oil skin is really good (Not OP) but dispelling flaming sword was a number 1 priority on my list, I let it through one time and they killed my Colossus with shooting and magic buuhuu.

    Lamassu Scholar was meeeh even with it secret spell thingy. Every time I was 99% sure what spell he would cast.

    The Infernal Bastion is great, but nothing game breaking, it is annoying as f**k because he could turn his bus in my direction where my monsters are and shoot my Sand stalkers who was behind him.

    Kadim titan seems okay, Searing Heat is a really cool rule.

    Citadel guards seems also fine to me, mostly they were hitting on 5+ because of move and long range.

    All in all my impressions is that they don't seems OP, but their new book makes me really jealous! So must flavor in it and lots of cool stuff. but how the rules is written is really confusing and you have to go up and down several times, but that was the same with the demon book, so it's a small thing.

    My opinion could change after some more games and different lists.

    Hope my input helps :)
  • Hi,

    As UD player I see one big issue in the new ID book: the "Trial of Ashuruk" banner: RM2 for the unit AND for every enemy units in contact, which also applies to friendly spells. All of this for just 30pts ?!

    This item is gonna break all the buff/res spells mechanic of the UD army. Considering the +2 CV to heal we already have to suffer, it will be just impossible to cast a decent spell with less than 4 magic dice if we meet this banner.

    This item should cost something like 60 or 70 pts.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Ezekiel57 ().