Charge Reaction options

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  • Eisenheinrich wrote:

    That's still how it works. You simply declare a charge reaction after each charge, so you can for instance declare hold against the first charge, stand and shoot against the second, hold against the fourth, and flee against the fifth.
    But... What happened during the Third Charge!? Must have been terrible, yet we demand the truth!

    Joke aside and to bring further trivia, you resolve whatever reaction immediately be it shooting (once/turn), fleeing (no choice if already fleeing) or other. I cannot remember 8th well but I believe reactions were decided immediately and replaced by any subsequent one, finally applied after all charges had been declared. It was basically a per-unit exclusive decision while in T9A it is a per-charge reaction, so it needed special rules to make any sequence (hold>shoot>flee for instance) possible.

    Tournament Analysis


    Tsuandan Warring States!
    Your mastery of the Art of War is the only* key to Victory
    *With some help from various celestial creatures, explosives, countless men and ruthless stratagems.
  • 11.C.a Hold
    A Hold Charge Reaction means that the unit does nothing.Units Engaged in Combat can only choose to declare the Hold Charge Reaction.

    11.C.b Stand and ShootA Stand and Shoot Charge Reaction means that the Charged unit immediately performs a Shooting Attack as if inthe Shooting Phase, even if the enemy is beyond the attack’s maximum range. In this case, the Charging unit isconsidered to be at Long Range for the Shooting Attack. Remember to apply any modifiers like Long Range andStand and Shoot. After this, follow the rules for Hold Charge Reactions.


    Am I missing something or should there be a small paragraph clarifying this, i.e. the 'There's too many of them' snippet from 8th RB?
    Friends don’t let friends play soberhammer.
  • Forgive me for beating a dead horse, but where EXACTLY in the 9th age rules does it say you can stand and shoot vs one opponent and then flee vs another?

    If I'm not mistaken the ONLY thing it says is that after you stand and shoot you must declare a hold reaction. The illustration (figure 22) goes on to SHOW you that you can hold vs one opponent then flee vs another but I do not see any texts that states this is possible.

    The ONLY thing I can find about a hold reaction is that you 'do nothing'.

    8th ed RB ALSO states that the unit 'is treated as having declared a hold reaction after a stand and shoot' BUT THEN GOES ON to include 'There's too many of them' paragraph to specify that a unit can stand and shoot vs one enemy unit, and flee vs another.

    I understand that part of writing a RB means driving home your point in as few words as possible but using RAW understanding of the rules I do not see anywhere in 9th where it clearly states you can stand and shoot vs one opponent and flee vs another.

    Someone please point to the page or exact rule that states this. If the above post highlighting step 4 is the ONLY proof of this I'm shocked this issue hasn't been raised before.
    Friends don’t let friends play soberhammer.
  • Kronos wrote:

    If I'm not mistaken the ONLY thing it says is that after you stand and shoot you must declare a hold reaction. The illustration (figure 22) goes on to SHOW you that you can hold vs one opponent then flee vs another but I do not see any texts that states this is possible.
    Isn't that what they explained? You can stand and shoot against unit A (which after shooting means to hold) and flee against unit B.

    Goblin Lunatic

    Translation - ES

  • Wouldn't hurt to include 1 sentence clarifying a very important tactic of the game. I think the rules team perhaps overlooked this when writing the rules and simply assumed people would carry over the mindset from 8th ed.

    Problem is, new players I'm trying to teach didn't play 8th. So I must show them an old text book to explain what I mean.

    How am I the only one who sees this?
    Friends don’t let friends play soberhammer.
  • Because your over interpreting the sentence "After this, follow the rules for Hold Charge Reactions." which only mean that for the stand and shoot reaction you do nothing more than the shoot (which is not the best way to write it I think too, copying the text "the unit does nothing" would have been better).

    This sentence don't force the unit to declare "hold" for the next charge reaction.

    You just have to follow the sequence of the charge phase to play thing like it have to be : unit 1 charge unit A => unit A declare a charge reaction ; then unit 2 charge unit A => unit A declare a charge reaction (maybe it have less choice if fleeing or have already stand and shoot for the first reaction, but it's just the normal circumstance, being the second or the first charge reaction) ; and so on. No need for more explanatory here, each charge reaction are independent, so adding a precision for a precise case may just create more confusion.
    :DE: :UD_bw:

    Devastating Charge (Scout)

    Fear (against Fearless)

  • Minidudul wrote:

    Because your over interpreting the sentence "After this, follow the rules for Hold Charge Reactions." which only mean that for the stand and shoot reaction you do nothing more than the shoot (which is not the best way to write it I think too, copying the text "the unit does nothing" would have been better).

    This sentence don't force the unit to declare "hold" for the next charge reaction.

    You just have to follow the sequence of the charge phase to play thing like it have to be : unit 1 charge unit A => unit A declare a charge reaction ; then unit 2 charge unit A => unit A declare a charge reaction (maybe it have less choice if fleeing or have already stand and shoot for the first reaction, but it's just the normal circumstance, being the second or the first charge reaction) ; and so on. No need for more explanatory here, each charge reaction are independent, so adding a precision for a precise case may just create more confusion.
    Highlighted the art which I think should help "unlock" the misunderstanding.

    In T9A, the charge reaction is exactly that: a reaction to a charge. Each charge declared, regardless of who issues/receives, is given a reaction applied immediately. There may be constraints (if fleeing, can only choose flee; stand & shoot can only be declared once) but in the end there are no special cases: just loop the declare/react process until all declarations are done.
    I cannot remember so much WFB 8 (I mosty played 6th/7th) but felt then that charge reactions were more akin to stances, and each new declaration gave a new opportunity to adapt the stance.

    In the end it is quite similar but T9A slightly different philosophy allows it to be a straightforward process with a repeat loop, rather than needing exceptions to work as intended. I would think this misunderstanding is due to being used to WFB's approach, and that players without this experience would not get confused. I'll give it a try this summer with some experiment subjects friends, indeed if there too much such misunderstanding it wouldn't hurt further clarifying through examples for instance.

    Tournament Analysis


    Tsuandan Warring States!
    Your mastery of the Art of War is the only* key to Victory
    *With some help from various celestial creatures, explosives, countless men and ruthless stratagems.