Announcement DE: public playtesting feedback

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    • DarkSky wrote:

      @Nemeroth your "not a battle report" is about twice as good as the average battle report. Really well written and to the point. Seems it was a cool battle and props to your wife for making it happen by choosing the models.
      I agree, for me I only like @DarkSky reports more, you (and satyr tales) are not far behind. Somehow you manage to really get the feeling of the game and observations clear. I also like these wife picked fluffy lists, how did she start with that? Would be a nice idea for my own as well.
      Follow the adventures of Lord Drakon with his deadly Spartans at: XIII Legion Spartans
    • Game last night.
      DE vs Vermin
      I'll start off with experience levels and lists were of polar opposites. I'm new to the game (played 8th ed, but this is only my 4th game of 9th and each time a different list) taking a fluffly lets try units out list. My opponent just won a mid sized tournament, heads the local group, and took his tournament winning list. I was expecting to get tabled and run off the board by the experience difference alone. Take the end result with a grain of salt.

      My list:
      - Prince 1+ armor save with ring of shadows and hero killing sword (on foot)
      - Oracle master (witchcraft) 5++
      - Cult priest, bsb, altar
      - 25 blades, champ muso, rending banner
      - 2x13 corsairs with paired weapons
      - 20 tower guard, champ, muso, rending banner
      - 5 Dark acolytes
      - 5 Dark acolytes, yema
      - 2xKraken

      His list (roughly):
      - Vermin Demon
      - Tyrant on monstrous rat
      - bsb on foot
      - 2x10 footpads with vanguard
      - 2xlarge blocks of rat at arms? (not sure)
      - 4 vermin hulks, thunder hulk
      Tunnel Gunners:
      - 3x3 jezails
      - 1 cannon
      - 1 catapult
      - 2x dreadmill

      Game was dawn assault and contest the center objective. He went first.
      (him) Vanguarded and marched the footpads up to block the tower guard and blades. Army moved up. Shooting kill 1 of the yema acolytes, 2 wounds to each kracken, and 3 wounds to tower guard. Cannon misfires doesn't shoot next turn.
      (me) Tower guard charged and forced a flee on one unit of footpads, other stood and took the charge in the flank. Army mostly wiggled to get charge lines net turn. Tower guard reforms to not give flanks after killing footpads outright.
      (him) Shooting/magic kills a kracken, 2 more yema acolytes (unit down to 2), catapult hits blades 7 die. tower guard lose 2 more to random shooting. Army moves up
      (me) Blades charge his tyrant. Tower guard meander around trying not to give easy charges/flanks. One unit of corsairs marches up to intercept a rat at arms block, second moves to threaten flank on vermin hulks. (not yema) dark acolytes moves to flank vermin hulks. Blades+altar kill the tyrant on rat overrunning into the vermin hulks.
      (him) dreadmill charges the "flanking" corsairs in the flank. rat at arms and demon both fail charges. Shooting kills yema acolytes. Tower guard down to prince, mage, and 4 units. Corsairs draw with dreadmill and reform to face. Blades win vs hulks, but hulks stay.
      (me) Acolytes charge the hulks. Tower guard fail a charge vs demon. Hulks die to the weight of attacks.
      Game is called as I had nothing left that could make combats and he was about to shoot me off the board.

      I didn't expect to win at any point. My goal of playing this game was to get blades and tower guard on the field to see how they would perform. On paper they don't seem worth, but I really wanted to try them out to really experience them. I'll also admin my list is...poor. No shooting, decent magic, no real flank threats all mean my list lacks a lot of features needed to make it competitive.

      Altar just isn't worth the 360 points. The buffs, while good, don't make up for the poor combat platform. This is especially true with a cult priest on top. The priest is just a giant bsb carrier with no threat potential.

      Ring of shadows: Maybe this could be worthwhile if it worked vs all shooting, but being slightly harder to hit from shooting doesn't really do anything to justify the cost. The units you care about protecting from shooting all have such high weapon skill that the -1 in cc had no effect. Could easily have spent the 65 points elsewhere for more.

      Corsairs: meh. Did surprisingly well for getting flank charged by a dreadmill. They have never been standouts in my games, but they haven't been bad either.

      Blades: Glass cannons that cost to much. The base/incremental costs are just to high. I would rather take more Dark Raiders as they don't die to everything. Overall, I think these are the worst units in core. You have to take them in large numbers to attempt to kill anything, but the larger numbers you take the more likely they are to be shot at and die. Meanwhile they arn't cheap enough to take as minimal blocks. You're paying and giving up a lot for 3 strength 3 poisoned attacks that already don't have much trouble hitting, but get rerolls to hit.

      Tower Guard: So bad. For their cost I would have expected some resiliency, but 5+ armor with moderate movement just leaves them waiting to be killed. It's also a huge points investment to take a unit of them. Maybe if they were strength 4 base they could possibly be justified but base strength 3 is to poor for elite units that are 23/24 points each. The cult also does noting unless you want to fork over 50 points on your general which already isn't cheap. In short, they die to fast, cost to much, and don't do enough in combat to be worth taking.

      Acolytes: With the cosmo nerf not as good, but still a REALLY good unit. Fast, mobile, can hit hard, and a threat in both magic and combat while carrying around a 4 aegis. Very good.

      Kraken: wasn't able to get a good enough read on these to make an opinion. hard target is nice vs shooting, but no special save while having 4+ armor means they do die to shooting anyways. Or i've just been really unfortunate to have run into nothing but shooting lists in my 4 games.

      Cults: I hate them so much. I dislike how they override other parts of our armybook making it so there is more cross referencing to do and no two units have the same set of rules. If cults were changed to be additive I think they would play better. Nabh: model gains hatred. Yema: model gains strider. Cadaron: short range bonus. Olaron: needs a total rework. I am probably wrong, but I don't think cult effects + killing instinct is game breaking. Yay i'm re-rolling natural 1's to wound in addition to hated/strider/short range to hit. Seems fine to me. Isn't DE supposed to be super deadly anyways?

      I'll be around to answer any questions and clarify as needed.
    • what were your other matchups?

      You happened to play agains VS which is the worst matchup possible (very big blocks and massive shooting) you also have the hardest to play magical lore.

      you don't have chaff. chaff is the essential feature in the game that makes you able to control the game.

      Your big units are too small and rending banner was useless against VS

      high cc works well with th ring of shadow. it can get the ennemy to hit you on 5+ wich is amazing (works only with TGs though)

      I might seem a bit harch and many of your coments I agree with but don't take it as an attack just as advice. Fight some beast heard, wariors or deamons with your list and thing will be very different.
      I think the problem is mostly about points
    • The list (above) is very sub par and fluffy. It's all first impressions and my take as a new player.
      Other matchups have been vs EoS with varations of gunline.
      5 channels.
      Mounted general with runefang
      warrior priest
      cosmo mage
      divination mage
      + other characters, 1 of which mounted

      20 sword and shield
      10 1+ calvary
      16 riflemen w/ stand and shoot banner
      16 riflemen
      -both riflemen blocks get accuracy and cold blooded orders
      20+ block of greatswords
      steam tank
      volley gun
      10? mounted pistoleers

      Steamtank and calvary have been swapped for blocks of spears, halbardeers, more shooting

      My lists were:
      prince on chariot w/ 1+ armor and various magic weapons
      oracle master alchemy
      cult priest on altar

      10x dark raiders xbow shield
      10x dark raiders xbow shield
      corsair mage bunker

      2x raptor chariot
      20-25 dancers


      The post was edited 2 times, last by mythics ().

    • Same thing there the matchup is horrible. You are faster but he shoots too hard and you didn't take the anti ranged tools.

      These days I start all my build by taking everything i can get to resist ranged because I know every tools I have win combats.

      don't loose faith our book is actually quite strong (except against certain matchups)
      I think the problem is mostly about points
    • Hi I have one idea regarding dragons; maybe someone else came up with this but I'll try anyway.

      I was playing with:
      Prince on a dragon
      Captain bsb
      Oracle adept
      30xleggionaries with spears
      5xRaiders with cross bows
      5xRaiders with crossbows
      5xDread knights with banner of blood
      5xRaven cloacks

      My opponent had:
      King on throne
      thane bsb
      2 engineers
      20xCrafted handgums
      23xDeep watch
      steam bomber
      runic catapult
      2xrunic organ guns

      Everything went quite well except at the last turn where my dragon was killed by his last organ gun having still 3 HP. My complaint is about the lack of protection against middle/small arms of fire for dragons. I know that these big lizards are in a delicate spot since they can easily be turned into big bad Death machines but what about this:

      "The dragon ignores AP penalties up to AP3 against ranged Attacks, this effect is applied only up to AP2 in close combat."

      This rule would leave total effectiveness to cannons and the central hit of catapults ( they have respectively AP10 and AP4) since Killing monsters is their main role, but it allows some room for some tactics different than "I will hide behind this *insert building name* for the rest of the game!" Also in combat core units usually won't be really effective as they should against dragons while élites would still be able to really put damage in.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Captain of the ring ().

    • Captain of the ring wrote:

      "The dragon ignores AP penalties up to AP3 against ranged Attacks, this effect is applied only up to AP2 in close combat
      its funny how often I see crys about the ineffectiveness of armour. And most people asking for increase or some ignoring rule.

      What you are asking for is called Piercing Resist(x)

      I suggested this as a new rule for T9A. Primarily to be used on enchantments and monsters, and perhaps as an elf special rule so that weak armour actually does something.

      They want to keep the points of monsters high but keep their defense at medium. piercing Resist(x) is a great way to do that.
    • What better fight than one between kin? A fight between kin with our favourite mythological creatures: Dragons, walking trees, the Medusa and a Manticore. It was all there in this battle between the Sylvan Elves and the Dread Elves. Now with an extra pre-game strategy section! (and more pictures than usual)


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    • @DarkSky great batrep mate! I habitually forget irresistable will too, very frustrating. In answer to some of your questions random movers can still shoot but with the normal penalties. I had that answered some where on the forum at some point just can’t remember where. Also as far as I’d understand it the dragon isn’t actually fearless unless stated so isn’t immune to panic caused by friendly troops being destroyed or breaking from combat.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Nemeroth ().

    • Bit of thread ressurection.

      A good 3000pt game with @Satyr Tales last night, (dude I’m sorry for being on form!).I think its worth jotting a few notes down about it but the Satyr is also doing a batrep.

      My list:

      General: Captain, Pegasus, Midnight Cloak, Lance, HA, Sh, Handbow, Fleet Commander. I took fleet commander in order to vanguard/slingshot him into the back field and see what havoc I can wreak.He took off the catapult and flanked the trolls in combination with the TG, he did loads of damage but only having 2+ in combat he took 2 wounds! The trolls were hitting on 5s as well due to deceptive Glamour, it was a ballsy move which paid off.

      BSB: Captain, horse, HA, Sh, Lance, Crown of the Wizard King, Talisman of 5++. So with the reduction on points of the crown and no longer permitting the taking of magical heirloom I spent the 50 remaining points on the 5++, so in a pinch he can support a fight with his 2+/5++ and lance. I rolled 3 for the magic path so Know Thy Enemy. Actually pretty nasty in combination with Deceptive Glamour and Guiding Light ended up saving my Acolytes from fleeing off the board at one point! Again I proved to myself that foot BSBs are sub-optimal, the mobility is huge and I’m starting to prefer the horse option over the Raptor, that extra 2” move is great.

      12 Corsairs, Mus, PW, Handbows: Really good with vanguard, they tore up the flank and were in range from turn 1.The vanguard move put them in a position to flank the big unit of squigs and generally be a pain in the bum.

      25 Spears, FC, Stalkers Standard: I could have had a few more bodies but I like having strider in case I don’t get the side I want. It didn’t do much this time but marching through terrain is nice. They were able to beat the squigs with the help of the corsairs who wouldn’t have been in position without the vanguard move so a great team effort. They picked up a loot counter and legged it out of the arcs of the big spear-orc unit with their overrun move.

      6 Acolytes, champ, crippling fatigue, ice & fire:I’ve only recently been schooled by @Ulthred that shaken doesn’t prevent the casting of spells which gives these guys a new dimension for me.They’re fast enough to flee out of danger but can rally and fling death down-field in the next turn, also they can fail a charge and fling death as a consolation prize. 6 is a slightly more resilient choice and 12 S4 poison attacks isn’t pleasant.I baited a charge from the trolls successfully, however I failed to rally in the proceeding turn and rolled 12! They were 1/2” away from the board edge.The mobility of horsey BSB saved them.

      21 Tower Guard, FC:Smashed troll-face, by taking the war machines out with my mobile elements early they were unmolested.

      Medusa: Tore up the flank and took out the git-launcher, job jobbed. Deceptive glamour was also useful for hitting on 2s and once again I have to doff my cap to @KiRaHyuU, its worth casting for the attribute.(Still need a better spell though…..)

      Chariot: Didn’t do much but being able to flee now is good, it kept them preserved to provide a deterrent later on.

      Harpies:I used them to flee and was lucky to rally, one disadvantage of a mobile general is its difficult to keep them in his bubble. I needed them in a different location to the general though so had to chance it.They are a good replacement for naked DRs, its just a shame they’re out of special but insignificant is huge, I nearly forgot about it!

      Sam’s deployment from my L-R was Stone Trolls, 9 or 10 of the buggers!, 40 strong spear-orc (Sporc!) death star block, 40(!) gnashers, catapult, doggies, git-launcher. Both BSB (4+4++, GW) and general Savage orc, GW, Potion of +3 Ag and horrible loadout were in the sporcs block. Unusual line up and the gnasher block was a surprise! To be fair Sam usually brings his wonderfully converted crossbow orcs (crossborcs!) so I think I got off lightly. My deployment L-R was acolytes, chariot, TGs, BSB, Spears, Corsairs + peg-dude with Harpies behind the TG and medusa ready to advance after the corsairs.I brought the chariot and medusa as supporting units, they can both add a lot of punch, especially backing up core blocks.

      I opted for slingshot peg-character as the satyr is fond of double catapults and I wanted to give my casualty dustpan a night off. I threw down early as he placed the catapult first so I stuck to a pre-prepared deployment. I then had the choice to take first turn and ram the corsairs and peg-dude as far as possible forward or take second turn and charge peg-dude in. I took first turn and flew peg-dude inside minimum range of the catapult and git launcher. Sam stuck his big unit of wolves next to the unruly battery but the corsairs and peg-dude took out enough to panic them off, kudos to the pointy eared pirates.

      The spear-elves made a bee line for a loot counter through the woods, medusa sprinted up the flank to threaten the git launcher, peg-dude settled down on the flank of the catapultand the TG shuffled forward to face the trolls with the harpies ready to chaff all comers.I put the chariot forward to cover the TG flanks and keep the trolls honest.From there my magic phases saw a few crippling fatigues getting through and I manged the medusa’s spell nearly every turn which was great for the attribute and helped a crucial combat between the TG and trolls.I managed to ignore and chaff the sporcs at every turn and as mentioned the Spears and corsairs did so much damage to the gnashers my dudes only suffered two hits on each unit when they broke.It was a ballsy choice to bring a massive block and unfortunately didn’t pay off but it did scare the bejesus outa me.Corsairs can shine against unarmoured opponents.

      After dealing with the Gnashers and breaking the trolls with the TG and peg-dude Sam called it as I had his sporc-star surrounded with triumphant Dathenii. It was a 19-1 win in the end but I was lucky that Sam opted to try something different.He’ll probably hand me my bottom next time…..

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Nemeroth ().

    • I know this is technically off-topic, but I played my first EoS game and their army forum doesn't have a thread like this. As some of you seem to enjoy reading my battle reports, maybe the moderator's doom hammer will let this slip just once...

      World premiere on my blog. After staying true to the Dread Elves for many moons, it was time to lead another army into battle. The "Army of the Dawn" is my take on the Empire of Sonnstahl. Do not let the looks fool you, the soldiers might look my Bleak Legion , but they are really somebody else!

      In their very first battle, the Army of the Dawn marches north, to claim some barbarian lands for the God-Emperor. However some heathens praying to strange and terrible gods stand in their way. Will the aim of the armies shooting stay true or will they perish under the great brutal weapons of the Dark God's Warriors?


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