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  • @Auto2 I haven't been following this thread, and I'm not 100% sure what I'm being asked here. My take on it is that the the "perfection level" of the balance follows some sort of curve with a peak at 4500pts and falling off at either side. So 20% core is there because this value is fairly sensible for a range of game sizes. I think the gains from writing something like you say would be pretty marginal for the extra possible confusion it could add to the books. But of course players should play w…

  • @Hachiman Taro Hmmm... I'm kinda unconvinced by your answers I'm afraid. But the problem might well be me Either way, I think I have a better understanding now, so that is progress in some form at least Let me ask one more question to everyone: what are the playstyle/list elements (don't worry about "project" vocabulary, use whatever words/descriptions you think are accurate) that SE players want to have? And to what extent do each of these manifest (or not) in the current book? And to what leve…

  • Sick of being a looser

    DanT - - Saurian Ancients (SA)

    Post

    Quote from Aeon: “I use to play different style but I always loved mixed skinks magic fast and mighty dinosaurs. I need to face the truth that magic isnit that powerful and cannot add what skinks needed. I don't want to talk about the mechanics of the 8th edition, it's gone and that's it. I literally don't know, maybe powerful magic to boost units is what I used to play before. But you cannot really now, does a 700pts cuatl worth the cost ? I don't know. Basically I can see that the army has to …

  • Sick of being a looser

    DanT - - Saurian Ancients (SA)

    Post

    How do you want your army to play? What playstyle suits you?

  • Sick of being a looser

    DanT - - Saurian Ancients (SA)

    Post

    I will leave SA specific advice to others. But if you look at my sig, there is a link to some so-called "beginners tactics". They aren't so much for beginners, as just an attempt to look at the tactics etc for the game starting at a basic level and working upwards. This might give you a few ideas of different things to look for, and thought processes that might help you improve. It also includes a list of more advanced topics, which I haven't had chance to expand on yet, but maybe just the list …

  • Quote from Hachiman Taro: “(spoilered for convenience) (Hidden Content) Right, this is great. A brilliant and well put together argument. I agree completely that the data suggest this as a course of action. However (and this is where I get confused)...if the issue with having to field trees is a gameplay (rather than nomenclature) issue, and this fix solves the problem, then this implies that there is a big difference in gameplay between this pair of tree units and the pair of elf units. Since t…

  • Quote from Vespacian: “ At a high level, seems like a disappointing lack of HBE in top spots ” That's cos I didn't take them

  • Are SE disappearing in your meta?

    DanT - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    Quote from Hachiman Taro: “Quote from DanT: “I.e. if elf-heavy (not tree-free) and tree-heavy are both viable. More mobile and more blocky lists are both viable. More and less shooting lists are both viable. Basically all the unit entries in the book are viable in some list. And no unit is an auto-include. Then what is the problem really? And if one if these isn't true, then surely the problem is that? Not anything to do with scoring trees? If we deleted every unit in the book other than Thicket…

  • Quote from Xso: “Then we agree to disagree. Anyway as a SE player I don't think that the "Go trees or go RPS" is an acceptable status. It's like if you said to an EOS player "Go Cavalry or go Rps" or "Go shooting or go rps" to a dwarf player and this status were true. They wouldn't like it. ” I was mostly just trying to establish what the status quo really is. Although I think claiming that an army of res3 low armour highly mobile glass cannons (all of which are basically baked into elf DNA in t…

  • Quote from Xso: “Quote from DanT: “I cannot recall a time when elf-only SE were not RPS. So I really don't see the problem here? ” 8th edition : high magic magician and bsb in sisters bus, 3x7 kurnous, 3x10 3+hitting archers and 10 other type archers + chaff were not RPS and totally playable in ETC comp. ” I disagree that this wasn't RPS, in my experience it really was. Moreover, part of the reason it wasn't more RPS, is how far ETC lists were from club lists. It certainly looked nothing like an…

  • Ok, I've been churning through lists, see my thread the-ninth-age.com/index.php?th…ostID=1196438#post1196438 There are now 6 there, which are basically all things I'd be happy tweaking and taking to an event. I quite like the last one: Forest Prince on Dragon:Sylvan Blades, Titanic Might (Sylvan Blades), hailshot 795 Wizard master-shamanism? 365 Chieftain: Blade Dancer, Battle Standard, Aether Icon, Sylvan Blades, Hero's Heart 320 10 heath hunters 390 9 heath hunters 353 5 heath hunters 205 15 f…

  • (Hidden Content) Let me try to draw this all together: The key problem is that trees are better at scoring, regardless of what playstyle is being used. Is that correct? That is a specific problem I can work with and investigate. However, let me ask why this is an issue: One can take core and non-core scorers, both of which are viable in small and large units. There are appropriate scoring units for all of the SE playstyles, whether or not a tree-heavy (not tree-free) list is selected. So what sp…

  • Quote from Fleshbeast: “Quote from DanT: “Quote from Fleshbeast: “@DanT how do you feel about the use of dryad scoring darts in the majority (don’t know if it’s all or not) high ranking SE lists? I ask because in @SmithF and others’ lists they seem to have little other use, note I don’t say no other use. Should we be seeing this entry as a one trick pony at high levels? If so, would you consider a unit with little use outside of scoring an issue? But a dryad block seems quite good no? It was in …

  • Are SE disappearing in your meta?

    DanT - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    Quote from Hachiman Taro: “Quote from DanT: “@Wesser @Hachiman Taro @Bloody MIsfire and others So... The bottom line I am getting here is that people are saying that they play trees primarily cos elves are RPS (not that elves aren't competitive). Isn't that exactly the sort of choice the game should give to players? ” It's a faux choice when some choices are selected almost always and some choices are selected rarely. Or it shows a herd mentality? Or that many players would rather not use RPS li…

  • Are SE disappearing in your meta?

    DanT - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    @Wesser @Hachiman Taro @Bloody MIsfire and others So... The bottom line I am getting here is that people are saying that they play trees primarily cos elves are RPS (not that elves aren't competitive). Isn't that exactly the sort of choice the game should give to players? It should be no surprise to anyone that res3 highly mobile shooty elves are RPS. The avoidance lists that were popular 12 months ago were no less RPS, they just delivered a higher win percentage than what they do now. If you do…

  • Are SE disappearing in your meta?

    DanT - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    Quote from Hachiman Taro: “ Quote from DanT: “What counts as "blocks of trees"? ” Let's say a) A list that relies on Sylvan Spirits (Thicket Beasts / Dryads) to score More precision please. What am I allowed? 1 unit of dryads or thickets? 1 of each? 3 total? is 450pts of dryads too much? and / or b) A list that has 25% or more of it's points comprised of Sylvan Spirits and / or Dragon mounted characters (since Dragon mounts make elven characters more similar to Sylvan Spirit characters as 'monst…

  • Are SE disappearing in your meta?

    DanT - - Sylvan Elves (SE)

    Post

    I've started a list repository: the-ninth-age.com/index.php?th…ostID=1196438#post1196438 I'll use this as a place to store my crazy ideas, as I ponder digging my SE out for some games. I have no idea whether any of these lists will satisfy you guys, cos I'm still not really sure what precisely is being objected to. Currently, two of the lists have no tree spirits, and all 3 lists contain sylvan archers Edit: Is this Quote from Hachiman Taro: “Blocks of trees are essentially forced by the army de…

  • Quote from nantuko: “@DanT i see your point when you say that it would be impossible to balance the game for every single skill level and that you cannot evaluate half an armybook. However if that is the direction the game is aiming to, then we need to accept as a community that certain armies will always be underrepresented and /or underperforming. ” I don't understand. Neither of my two points (about skill level or half an army book) are new for this game. This is nothing to do with the direct…

  • Quote from Wesser: “Lets not get Lost in the trees.. The problems are that SE generally struggle to Score and have a lot of enemy units they struggle to harm Trees just happen to be the units that best compensate for crippling weaknesses. ” This is what confuses me. One can't evaluate half an army book. One cannot state SE are bad at scoring and hurting certain units, then say that certain parts of the book are good at these things. That's like saying that dwarfs can't beat monsters if they don'…

  • Quote from nantuko: “I think the average player would like to be able to play competitive lists even without trees. ” I am not sure this is a reasonable request... I will have to ponder further. The way things scale with skill mean that not every unit/playstyle can be perfectly balanced at every skill level. My personal take on SE is that one of the things the trees bring to the army is less skill-intensive builds, in an army that is generally pretty skill intensive. Indeed, it is kinda baked in…