New models from Games Workshop

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Hello There!

The project likes to learn from ages past and one lesson T9A team has learnt is to engage the community more. The team had such a tremendous success with ideas for the magic phases and new magic items for Warriors of the dark gods that the Rules Team (RT) has melded together some great global surveys that they want you, the community to help answer in order to get an understanding of what the community really wants.

Now it's worth saying right here that the surveys are not binding to the future of the game, but give instead the T9A team a incredible insight into the path they need to take.

Up first is a survey on what to do with magic items with some very simple questions and statements for you all to answer, so please, take the jump and answer away, and when you finish, spread the word, we need to actively engage as much of the community as we can.

So what you waiting for, go go go!

Start the survey here!

  • In addition to what others have already said, I want to point out that GW models come with a lot of alternative bits. Have you seen the chaos chariot box? It has enough bits to build 1 and a half chariot! You just need to buy a second pair of wheels and 1 or 2 marauders from any bits store, in order to complete the second model. Same with the maggot lords box, or the wrathmongers box... lots of weapons, heads, bodyparts, etc. For God's sake, you can build 2 maggot lords with 1 box + a second torso and seat.
  • GW have moved away a bit from the easiest conversions with simple head/arms swap sets in 7th edition, to sets with very strict assembly line (thinking especially on the Wood Elves Range they put out where everything was designed to only fit with one other piece). Sure the models look great but it lost its charm and if I have to cut a model to pieces to convert it there are many other manufactures that gives the same opportunity and give me a feeling of more unique models.

    Also GWs stride to bigger is better models did not really play well with me either, I see the same type of muscles sculpted in to many different models, I think it started with the Vortex Beast/slaughterbrute and then it felt like they repeated it for the end times bigger models and several more after that. I got the feeling I painted the same model over and over again despite they very aimed at very different tasks.

    GWs approach and interaction has shifted during the editions, from White Dwarfs golden years where it was very hobby centric with a website full of tips and tricks and the bits order as a crown on top (it was probebly to much but it was really the icing on the cake for a hobbyist), then down into the darkness with making the website a web shop only and closing all direct channels to customers.

    With the new government in charge they seems to open up a bit more but for many older players/hobbyists it is to little and very to late, most have moved on to other areas of the hobby/manufactures, myself very much focused on Scibor and old Confrontation models but still buy an unhealthy amount of GW models where I think they fit. :whistling:

    Army Design Team

    Hobby Animation Team

  • nicreap wrote:

    Baranovich wrote:

    But when I see a sales pitch put forward that has to include what "GW never did for us"....um no. Considering that there are thousands of gamers on these boards whose armies are made up a huge chunk of GW products(if not armies made up entirely of GW miniatures), among others, not to mention GW terrain, etc. It's just totally disingenuous to begin claiming that a new miniatures range is both vastly superior in quality and vastly superior price to GW. The former is up for debate, and the latter is outright untrue.

    Kanadian's resins are nice, but they are NOT cheaper than GW model for model, indeed they are as expensive as sites like Scibor and other resin miniature makers.
    I love how you literally make up things Kanadian has said just so you can defend GW. You literally addressed NONE of the points he made.
    I agree with him, GW is a pretty crap company. I have had only positive experiences with TMS so far, from the non existant mold lines, to the sharp crisp details (and ya he is right, the TMS resin hold a much sharper detail than GW plastic does), to the phenomenal customer service and involvement in the community. TMS alone as a company is head and shoulders above GW.

    It also doesn't really matter how many people have an army made of GW models, when for a good chunk of time GW was the only company allowed to make official models for the only mass fantasy game. That is no longer the case, and the fact companies like TMS are growing and thriving indicates the community no longer cares what GW is doing, because there are far better companies willing to provide them models and interact with them.
    Make up things that he never said? Did he not say that GW only looks out for their sales and profits, while he cares much more about the community he is making miniatures for? Did he not say that?

    I most certainly addressed what he said. And his prices are what I called into question, and rightly so.

    There are dozes and dozens of posts on these boards alluding to the fact that gamers who may be trying to get into the gaming hobby are facing barrier of entry because of the expense of the miniatures and associated costs for paints, supplies, etc. I find it totally hypocritical that any time GW's prices are mentioned, barrier of entry and greed is a warcry. But when a community-based miniature producer charges the exact same prices that GW does, that barrier isn't even whispered.

    I am not expecting Kanadian to give miniatures away for free out of the goodness of his heart, he needs to make money from his enterprise like we all do.

    My point is that his PRICES do not support his claim of being community-centric as opposed to company and profit-centric. My point is that he's NO different than GW, and that GW is NOT the profit boogey man that everyone makes them out to be. I focused on rank and file plastics because whenever a discussion comes out about how evil GW is and how anti-community they supposedly were, gamers totally ignore all of the products they sold that were actually good, decent values for gaming building up their armies.

    That was my point. And also to point out that Kanadian is making what looks like pretty nice resins for undead and KOE, which is awesome. But they do not particularly stand out or make any particularly loud statement as far as being unique from the other miniatures companies out there, GW included. You take my post to mean that I'm putting down Kanadian for his efforts maybe? Not at all. If you really read my posts you would see that I would consider buying some command groups from him, but I would not buy his core regiments at the prices he's charging. I can do much better with GW, Mantic, and others for filling out the ranks of my army.

    Kanadian's prices are most CERTAINLY for established gamers who already have armies looking to add to what they already have. His prices are totally fair for a gaming market, his prices match up pretty closely to a Scibor, Mierce, Fenryll, etc. I am not saying he needs to charge less. But I AM saying I DON'T buy the total BS that his prices are somehow this huge relief from GW's prices. When I read what he wrote, I immediately went to his site to simply check his pricing. That is what inspire me to write all of this!

    I am not putting down Kanadian whatsoever! But I am saying that it's a misplaced and very, very tiresome argument that this miniature vendor or that miniature vendor is doing what GW never did for the community. I would personally like to know what a 40 EURO, five-man skeleton cavalry unit does for the community in some supportive way that GW never provided. And a THREE-MAN command group of Undying Dyn. Shabti for 35 EUROS??? That's over $40.00 retail - for THREE 28mm miniatures. Or 12.50 EUROS for ONE, ONE skeleton cavalry model??? That's $15.00 US dollars for a SINGLE rank and file-sized miniature. I would like you to explain to me how those prices are something vastly different in community philosophy and support from GW's business model of pricing.

    Again, Kanadian made this claim of having a different philosophy towards the community than GW, I didn't make the claim. And YES, I WILL defend GW as being a high-quality company that has a long, rich history of making some of the best miniatures and writing some of the best lore in the gaming world.
    There are many magic rings in the world Bilbo Baggins, and none of them should be used lightly!

    The post was edited 5 times, last by Baranovich ().

  • TMS cannot and will not compete with GW plastic [period]. So please do not compare us. We make hight end, expensive, elite models. While GW is a mass production of cheep, but good models. I personally have immense respect for GW, I don't agree with them as to their past choices, but I do understand them.

    If you want to compere TMS to something it could be Forgeworld.

    I don't recall saying anything that would suggest ..."But I AM saying I DON'T buy the total BS that his prices are somehow this huge relief from GW's prices..." but rather the opposite. Resin cannot compare to plastic units, because of the price. We can offer better "sharpness" of detail, but making a unit in resin is 10 to 20 times more expensive then plastic. And a lot of the players don't really care for the upgrade in detail, but they do care about the huge difference in price. In some cases we can compete with GW offering a superior detailed product in similar price, and we do. But as far as units are concerned we cant. We offer units as we want the players to have access to the units, that normally they couldn't get in stores. As TMS and T9A grows we will most definitely be introducing plastic units.

    At the moment TMS's goal is to release as many armies as possible, so T9A players have access to the models they need. Please notice we are not working on armies that other companies are doing, not on armies that are popular and would drive sales. We are working on the armies that the community voted for the most urgent. This year we will be introducing a starter set... actually more then one, and 2 complete armies that can hit the store shelves, to popularize T9A, by profit incentive for store owners, with products they can sell. Right now we are working on a prototype starter set, as well as, army deals, for beginners. And this will do more for the community then 40 EURO 5 man cavalry units.

    Hope this helps in clearing up what I meant. I might have worded things better (but english is not my native language), and may be some over interpretation happened, but I think I understand what your (@Baranovich) implying. And for the most part I agree. As to GW quality I'm not that convinced, but it could come down to personal taste. In the old days I preferred Target games models over GW ones. In more recent history there are a number of companies that I believe make better models, and GW is riding on a massive PR and marketing. But they do make good models, and their plastic kits are really nice. I just don't thing they are the best, and I'm not that fond of their new lines. But its a matter of personal taste, so its impossible to say someone is right or wrong. Both for and against will have their supporters, and both sides are have merit to their opinions, to there is not much we can do in the matter, but agree or disagree.

    And I do appreciate criticism if it is constructive, or brings insight, so I'm totally fine with what your saying, and in the form your using. All I can do, is give you their reasons why things are as they are, and what we plan in the future to make them better. And if you did bash me for 40 Euro 5 man units.... well the 9th Legion models are expensive, and I do understand it. but there are people who want to have amazing models, with insane level of detail, that no one else has. For those players the 9th Legion was created. The individual R&F model has more detail then most hero level models out there.

    O I must add TMS has its share of flaws..... The biggest flaw we are working on is to get models delivered faster. This is something we are struggling with. So I cant say TMS is the best, and every else sucks. Each company has something they do better then others, if not they quickly go out of business.

    The post was edited 8 times, last by Kanadian ().

  • Baranovich wrote:

    Make up things that he never said? Did he not say that GW only looks out for their sales and profits, while he cares much more about the community he is making miniatures for? Did he not say that?
    Yes he did say that, and he is still correct. To date TMS has never instituted power creep to sell models, has never made older models unplayable to sell his product, and has never destroyed an entire game system to sell models. GW has, so TMS is currently fairing far better than GW in that respect. In fact, they are making models for a game system they have no hand in, for the purpose of filling a hole that GW intentionally made within it's product line. So ya, the company that is making models for a system it has no control over, and is using player feedback to decide what it is making is putting the community first, which is a far cry from what GW has been doing.




    Baranovich wrote:

    My point is that he's NO different than GW, and that GW is NOT the profit boogey man that everyone makes them out to be
    As already addressed above, yes he is VASTLY different from GW. GW broke it's own game to sell models, that's all that needs to be said about GW.




    Baranovich wrote:

    I find it totally hypocritical that any time GW's prices are mentioned, barrier of entry and greed is a warcry.
    That's because for a long time GW's standing policy was you HAD to use their miniatures to play the game. You couldn't use other companies products you couldn't use paper, you had to buy and use their product, PARTICULARLY if you were playing in their store. So yes, GW will carry the weight of it's decisions and it's mistakes.

    But the barrier to entry into the tournament scene is high, and there is nothing that can be done about that. But now that we aren't shackled to GW's whims anymore, the barrier of entry is almost non existant. The rules are free, you can download paper models from this site....for free/you can play on UB for free. The only thing you need to get are dice to play T9A. And since TMS doesn't produce T9A, barrier to entry as an argument has no relationship to what TMS does as a company.


    Baranovich wrote:

    I can do much better with GW
    Prove it, show me how you are going to do better buying Tomb Kings or Brettonia models from GW? The answer is you can't! GW doesn't make or sell those models anymore, so you absolutely cannot do better than TMS going through GW. You could sit and wait for years and hope they resurface but that's not a real plan.



    Baranovich wrote:

    Mantic, and others for filling out the ranks of my army.
    And your point is? The cheap crappy models for UD were already out there, why would TMS try and compete in the cheap crappy model department when GW left a gaping whole for nice UD models?


    Baranovich wrote:

    But I AM saying I DON'T buy the total BS that his prices are somehow this huge relief from GW's prices.
    Again, he NEVER made that claim, in fact he has repeatedly stated that they cannot and will not try and compete with GW plastic prices, so you can keep saying it's BS, but he still never said it to begin with, so it doesn't really mean anything for you to keep saying it.


    Baranovich wrote:

    I would like you to explain to me how those prices are something vastly different in community philosophy and support from GW's business model of pricing.
    We already established this, but let's go over it again. TMS has no hand in T9A, so TMS can't break rules to drive sales, TMS can't make units OP or UP to drive sales, TMS can't destroy T9A and introduce a new game to drive sales.

    In fact, TMS has stepped in to provide miniatures for T9A, that are for lines GW never really cared about, and has since decided to stop making entirely. Not only that, TMS regularly interacts with it's customer base, uses the customer bases input for deciding where it is going to proceed with it's miniature production, and is keeping the community informed of what is going on, again, all things GW can't claim.
  • @nicreap

    I enjoy a good dose of drama as much as everyone else, but the GW gestapo did not steal all WHFB books and models and burn them in a pire. You can still play that game if that's what you want. Heck, most WHFB models are still for sale.

    What GW did was say "The End" and then move on to something new. The playerbase just reacted poorly, and instead of being thankful for +30 years of hobby, raged like a bunch of spoiled brats.
  • Megusta wrote:

    Heck, most WHFB models are still for sale.
    Not the two lines TMS sells, the rest are irrelevant to the discussion about TMS and GW.


    Megusta wrote:

    The playerbase just reacted poorly, and instead of being thankful for +30 years of hobby, raged like a bunch of spoiled brats.
    Maybe because it became apparent that the End Times was simply a cash grab by GW.
  • Megusta wrote:

    @nicreap

    I enjoy a good dose of drama as much as everyone else, but the GW gestapo did not steal all WHFB books and models and burn them in a pire. You can still play that game if that's what you want. Hell, most WHFB models are still for sale.

    What GW did was say "The End" and then move on to something new. The playerbase just reacted poorly, and instead of being thankful for +30 years of hobby, raged like a bunch of spoiled brats.
    let's not forget GW drifted off before declaring the end and let's not forget they were caught in corporate mechanism that downright killed their image.
  • If we need to compare resin fantasy ranges I think we got 5:
    Gw finecast line- overpriced and gardbadge quality.
    Fw line- much better quality, reasonable prices for infantery but crazy for monsters (when I got my merwyrm I was like is that all????)
    Scibor-very good sculpts, affordable caracters, expensive troops.
    Titan forge-good original teams, relatively cheap troops, bulky models( I like that but not everyone)
    TMS- never got any, but nice sculpts, average prices and cheap magnetic bases.
    Of those the 2 first look like a normal company, the second an sculptor making a living out of it, the third a quite original companny, and tms looks more like someone that came to help the community continue their oop armys. So yep the last one looks more like a company driven for the community.
  • I'm sorry a model is a model the material plus detail and so on will add on to cost but when it comes down to it every company going have a IMU on them no company wants to run in the red a company has to increase it sales from the year before it will try and do so anyway it can. This is what so great about the 9th age we don't have worry about them having to meet a sales goals.
    So going forward the most important thing for us to do is pick the models you like TMS, GW or one of the many other model companies and yes they will be the ones who will be battling it for our money.
    I would like to thank all the companies working with the 9th age and wish you all the best of luck.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Twilight Wolf ().

  • I will defend the 'resin allows more details' argument here.
    I have recently assembled and painted several small and big resin and plastic models.

    Plastic wins when it comes to large flat surfaces probably due to the more solid nature of the injection molds. this makes plastic an excellent choice for inorganic surfaces like armor.
    Resin works beautifully for organic surfaces. My Andrea Miniatures dragon has so much detail on its wings that it isn't even comparable to the surface of the GW Treeman or the Arachnarok. Greenstuff was not needed for any of them. (Aside from customizations.)

    The same is true for smaller miniatures. The big GW plastic unit boxes are either weirdly proportioned and generic looking with a high degree of customizability (The 6th and 7th edition boxes), or dynamically looking but pretty much locked into a predefined pose (Eternal Guard kit for example). And even the Eternal Guard kit has surprisingly little detail with weird items put onto the surfaces to hide the blockiness of the models. The surfaces them selfs are again perfectly flat.
    Compare that to the rather expensive resin models from Mierce Miniatures. They are mind-blowingly detailed.

    PS
    I don't want to bash GW's product line here. Even today, with many alternative manufacturers, most armies heavily rely on GW kits.
    Its just that I believe resin/metal casts allows more detailed miniatures than plastic injection molds. If that additional detail is wanted by the customer is a different question.