New models from Games Workshop

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

Have you answered our survey about your preferred game size?
More details in this news item.

  • Eru wrote:

    I haven't seen yet any resin close to the quality of the recent GW plastic kits, but I'll hope you'll prove me wrong when I'll receive my UD pledge ;D

    By quality I mean: details, sharpness (really thin blades, sharp edges, wings/hands that doesn't look too coarse/thick), assemble and adjustment (pieces fit perfectly, no need to green stuff too much to fill the gaps), solidity (no much breaking when models fall or get hit compared to some resins), no flash, no bubble, barely some mold lines but easy to clean with a knife, and all the cool things of plastic (conversions, easy to glue, light).
    In addition to TMS (who looks good online, but I haven't received them yet), you should check out Raging Heroes. The detail is insane, and they do 28mm truescale. (ie, they don't inflate hand and weapon sizes for ease of casting).
    Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.
  • Ok that makes sense. You can tell the plastic kits GW makes are done in CAD because of the "blockiness" with a lot of sharp corners and straight lines (don't really know how else to explain it sorry), example: treeman. He doesn't really look that organic at all. Compare him to the old lord of the rings metal treebeard and that guy really looks like he's made of wood.
  • That is because plastic likes sharp edges and large flat surfaces. It hates small items such as detail. On the other hand resin is the exact opposite, it hates flat surfaces and long edges. This is the reason plastic can never achieve good detail, and plastic models are getting bigger and bigger.
  • Kanadian wrote:

    That is because plastic likes sharp edges and large flat surfaces. It hates small items such as detail. On the other hand resin is the exact opposite, it hates flat surfaces and long edges. This is the reason plastic can never achieve good detail, and plastic models are getting bigger and bigger.
    Nonsense.

    It's entirely down to the casting/moulding process.
    Solid forms which plastic injection moulds use sacrifice some detail of the model in the direction the forms are removed, more parts to each form means more potential detail but this gets overly costly. The big advantage is you can churn out hundreds to thousands of parts from the same form day in day out with no drop in quality.

    Flexible forms which resin uses can be bent and twisted away from the cast so there's no need to sacrifice detail to allow the forms to be removed from the model, resin is also a little more pliable than plastic which further helps this but isn't a necessity.
    The disadvantage is that it's a longer process and the forms do not last forever so you can only produce a handful to tens of models per day per form.

    You can put plastic in a flexible form and you'll get exactly the same level of detail as you do with resin in the same form.
  • Kanadian wrote:

    That is because plastic likes sharp edges and large flat surfaces. It hates small items such as detail. On the other hand resin is the exact opposite, it hates flat surfaces and long edges. This is the reason plastic can never achieve good detail, and plastic models are getting bigger and bigger.
    Hi @Kanadian, I'm curious about the development of resin over the last few years. I have a few resin models from roughly 5 or 6 years ago (a couple from GW, and a couple from 2 other companies I can't remember the name of) and was very disappointed with the quality at the time. The material was extremely soft, and while it was nice to play around with for conversion purposes, a stray knife (or even finger nail sometimes) would like an impression with minimal contact.

    How has this changed over the years?
  • TohmasXI wrote:

    Hi @Kanadian, I'm curious about the development of resin over the last few years. I have a few resin models from roughly 5 or 6 years ago (a couple from GW, and a couple from 2 other companies I can't remember the name of) and was very disappointed with the quality at the time. The material was extremely soft, and while it was nice to play around with for conversion purposes, a stray knife (or even finger nail sometimes) would like an impression with minimal contact.
    How has this changed over the years?
    This more or less sounds like a two-part component mix going 'wrong'.

    Plastic can archive a compairable quality to resin but the differences for me always have been the ease of product use. Resin is available in every hobby shop as a decent two-component product that allows you to create pretty much anything with a wonderful effect when mixed correctly, poored correctly and a very fine, clean and smooth mold.

    To my knowledge the market hasn't evolved this way for two-component plastic pouring products. Other than the use of a 3d printer I don't even know how I should begin to make 'true plastic' models as you see them from GW.

    My experience is that smaller compagnies usually still get a lot of their products from hobby stores and do not have the funds to pay compagnies who can pressure mold plastic models (which is also done by GW in china). While plastic as the core product is cheaper as resin, the ways to use it (and produce models) arn't. Resin can be used by anyone capable of making a nice rubber mold. Quality of resin largely depends on the mix, mold quality and product experience of the caster.
  • Megusta wrote:

    @nicreap

    I enjoy a good dose of drama as much as everyone else, but the GW gestapo did not steal all WHFB books and models and burn them in a pire. You can still play that game if that's what you want. Hell, most WHFB models are still for sale.

    What GW did was say "The End" and then move on to something new. The playerbase just reacted poorly, and instead of being thankful for +30 years of hobby, raged like a bunch of spoiled brats.

    2015 will always be remembered as the year of infamy.
    " Des chercheurs qui cherchent, on en trouve. Des chercheurs qui trouvent, on en cherche " Charles de Gaulle
    " Si l'on bâtissait la maison du bonheur, la plus grande pièce en serait la salle d'attente " Jules Renard
    " Plus j'aime l'humanité en général, moins j'aime les gens en particulier " Fedor Dostoïevski
  • well, in other news: Homebrew ruled has got its own official section now.

    so some of us game designers can certainly write up some rules for GW models that will be very balanced. So we can all have fun games with cool rules.

    Not that the rules probably will not be OP because then that's w homebrew and no one will want to play against it.
    Balanced homebrew that just isn't official yet should be more amicable for your opponents.
  • theunwantedbeing wrote:

    Kanadian wrote:

    That is because plastic likes sharp edges and large flat surfaces. It hates small items such as detail. On the other hand resin is the exact opposite, it hates flat surfaces and long edges. This is the reason plastic can never achieve good detail, and plastic models are getting bigger and bigger.
    Nonsense.
    It's entirely down to the casting/moulding process.
    Solid forms which plastic injection moulds use sacrifice some detail of the model in the direction the forms are removed, more parts to each form means more potential detail but this gets overly costly. The big advantage is you can churn out hundreds to thousands of parts from the same form day in day out with no drop in quality.

    Flexible forms which resin uses can be bent and twisted away from the cast so there's no need to sacrifice detail to allow the forms to be removed from the model, resin is also a little more pliable than plastic which further helps this but isn't a necessity.
    The disadvantage is that it's a longer process and the forms do not last forever so you can only produce a handful to tens of models per day per form.

    You can put plastic in a flexible form and you'll get exactly the same level of detail as you do with resin in the same form.
    Well in your deliberations did you take in to account the shrinking of plastic when cooling?
    And plastic has a a much much poorer running quality compared to both metal and resin.
    But if what your saying is true..... how come no one has ever managed to produce a resin quality model in plastic? I'm no expert, so I may be wrong, if so please give me an example. Maybe we have gone about it all wrong. And we are looking for possibilities to switch to plastic.


    @ThomasXI JDantoni has covered it pretty much. But I would add that there are a multitude of resins and materials to create forms. For example we use in depending upon the model a mixture of 2 different silicones and 3 hardening agents to get the best sharpness of the mould, while retaining a decent endurance. For casting models we only use one of 2 kinds of resins, as the rest are just not good enough.
    In printable the casting process is fairly simple, and any one can do it. But to do it very well, and to have a hight quality model at the end, that is a totally different story. It takes years of experience and know how, much of it is gained through trial and error, and experimenting.

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Kanadian ().

  • Kanadian wrote:

    Well in your deliberations did you take in to account the shrinking of plastic when cooling?And plastic has a a much much poorer running quality compared to both metal and plastic.

    And if what your saying is true..... how come no one has ever managed to produce a resin quality model in plastic? I'm no expert, so I may be wrong, if so please give me an example.
    I think that plastic can obtain the same quality if parts of the model are 'cut' enough.

    If I had to give an example of how plastics can archieve the same sort of detail, this seems to be done with reasonable succes with Games Workshop and Wyrd miniatures. What you however certainly end up with are more cuts, thus assembly thus less interesting product.

    What you said about plastic and resin properties holds some truth but it depends on how you want to quantify quality.

    - In my own experiment with Resin the longer curing time gained allows you to have less cuts in the model because the flow of resin molding allows for it.
    - 'Regular' plastic as you said runs thick and because of that cannot obtain the same depth as Resin molds unless you cut up the orginial sculpt in so many sections that you can. Which is how GW and Wyrd obtained their premium quality. Even with the massively reduced curing time, which is both a pro for mass production and a con for specialist items.

    The thing is that quality is important in the eye of the beholder.
    The prime reason as to why GWs models grow larger isnt because they have to do this but is because it simplifies construction.

    Since AoS Games Workshop has fully changed their product line to ease the hobby. Knowledge of paints and assembly is less required because paints state their use (base, layer, wash, technical) and models now come with instructions, more snap fit options and general ease of modelling.
    Compair it to Wyrd and you see the same model quality but a massively increased difficulty of construction. Their new product removes the last part by pre-assembly.

    Moral is, Resin keeps detail without many cuts because of its flow and curing time. Plastic keeps flat detail and has a fast curing time which is ideal for mass production.
  • I'm sorry but between opinion an fact there is a huge gap. From my experience, there is no way plastic can get he same amount of detail as resin. If it could it would dominate the market.... I mean I'd be all over it. But I'm not aware of any solution from plastic, metal, 3d print exc. that ca reach resin detail, and believe me I have spent years on the subject. Still I don't know everything.I have heard of may wonderful offers, but when I show our resin models, I always here the same thing " Oh, we cant ..." and then a explanation why they cant match the details.

    And from what my knowledge contains I can say, if some one says that plastic models have same quality as resin... well they have no clue what they are talking about, or there has just been a wonderful new solution.
    Also in some cases I've seen people show resin models and claim its plastic. And the resin we are using, it is really hard to tell the difference, I imagine how an average player can have a hard time, if sometimes I struggle with the task. And i work with resin on a daily basis.
  • @Kanadian I dont dissagree, but as you too know plastic does dominate the market and will continue to do so because:
    1 Its cheaper
    2 Its easier to mass produce

    Quality is in the eye of the beholder and honestly from my perspective your most common customer isnt prefering the best quality in the world over the price.

    As an example, I cant afford to eat a steak every day. I know its the best meat of a bull but its still an expensive good.

    Same applies for cars, airline tickets, holidays etc.
  • JDAntoine wrote:

    @Kanadian I dont dissagree, but as you too know plastic does dominate the market and will continue to do so because:
    1 Its cheaper
    2 Its easier to mass produce

    Quality is in the eye of the beholder and honestly from my perspective your most common customer isnt prefering the best quality in the world over the price.

    As an example, I cant afford to eat a steak every day. I know its the best meat of a bull but its still an expensive good.

    Same applies for cars, airline tickets, holidays etc.
    And this is were we agree 100%.

    Why we went for resin.
    That is simple, our goal was to make as many armies in the shortest possible time. With the resources we had it. Preparing plastic kits takes time and lots of resources, we would have to have more or less a million or two (Euro or USD) in cash just to start, to keep up with the release scheduled we are on, and it was not clear if we could profit. I did the maths, then simple analysis. The result cornered us to a certain market share. And this was a hight end quality elite product... much like T9A.
    We would like to do plastic soon... and sooner then you might think, but to keep a high release rate, where T9A community could to have all the armies released in a year or two, in stores and expanding.... well, for that only resin offered a good shot at success. Just remember making a plastic kit is not the main problem. Its much harder to organise, store, and market the product, in other words, to run a company. And most people uncover when finishing a crowd funding campaign for the first time.