TMS - Releases

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    • Kanadian wrote:

      @alltaken - Believe me if I knew we would have so many problems with the knights, we would canceled the KoE campaign before it started.

      As for an update...

      Well we finally got the Grails casting going. There are some small troubles with some command groups and castellan, These cast are being redone. Once the majority of the missing miniatures are cast we will proceed to shipping. Probably next week.
      Thanks for the update... as i said before a weekly update (just a couple of lines) goes a long way. Obviously everybody would like the miniatures yesterday but as long the sculpts and casts are great that is the main criteria.
      As a slight aside i was comparing the cast and sculpt of the TMS Hippo Lord i have with some other companies and it was definitely the best quality in my opinion so if the delay is to ensure the same quality of product that is ample reason to delay dispatching the orders.....
      But just to re iterate a regular update would be appreciated and a list of names of each order dispatched in a specific week would be nice to let people know when to expect their order
    • Trakritch wrote:

      In order to know more about why the delay are happening and because I'm interested in knowing more about miniature casting, can I ask you what are those "problems with the knights", @Kanadian ? (sorry, if you already detailed, I missed it ^^)
      Is it a matter of size of the horse ? Or the shape of the sculpt ?
      No, its more a matter of the amount of miscasts, if we cant cast good models then we cant ship them. Sometimes a sculpt fix is needed sometimes the cast has to be reworked.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Kanadian ().

    • Squirrelloid wrote:

      TLDR; stop treating crowdfunding like pre-orders. They aren't.
      As an outside observer who's been following this for the last year, I believe the frustration at this point for those who pledged isn't over a lack of results, but a lack of communication. No one expects crowdfunding to go totally smoothly, but as an investor in a small business (to continue with your example) it's not unreasonable to expect regular, detailed updates on progress.

      To tangent for a moment, from a business owner's perspective communication on progress should be used as an opportunity to set expectations. And remember, as you said, people putting money into a Crowdfunding campaign already have low expectations. I've found it's much easier to have an uncomfortable conversation about a project early on than it is to have an angry conversation down the road, especially since the latter will almost always result in the loss of the customer.
    • Dan wrote:

      Squirrelloid wrote:

      TLDR; stop treating crowdfunding like pre-orders. They aren't.
      As an outside observer who's been following this for the last year, I believe the frustration at this point for those who pledged isn't over a lack of results, but a lack of communication. No one expects crowdfunding to go totally smoothly, but as an investor in a small business (to continue with your example) it's not unreasonable to expect regular, detailed updates on progress.
      To tangent for a moment, from a business owner's perspective communication on progress should be used as an opportunity to set expectations. And remember, as you said, people putting money into a Crowdfunding campaign already have low expectations. I've found it's much easier to have an uncomfortable conversation about a project early on than it is to have an angry conversation down the road, especially since the latter will almost always result in the loss of the customer.
      Yeah, but the expected frequency of communication here is kind of unreal. Weekly? (I just saw that in the last page) Really? In a normal business environment, investors get updates quarterly. Surely more frequently than monthly is uncalled for.

      Now, I'm not saying there aren't things TMS couldn't do better on communication, but some of the expectations in this thread are unreal.

      Also, I'm not an outside observer here. I'm waiting on Grail Knights for my KoE models.
      Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.

      Legal

      Playtester

      Chariot Command HQ

    • Squirrelloid wrote:

      Dan wrote:

      Squirrelloid wrote:

      TLDR; stop treating crowdfunding like pre-orders. They aren't.
      As an outside observer who's been following this for the last year, I believe the frustration at this point for those who pledged isn't over a lack of results, but a lack of communication. No one expects crowdfunding to go totally smoothly, but as an investor in a small business (to continue with your example) it's not unreasonable to expect regular, detailed updates on progress.To tangent for a moment, from a business owner's perspective communication on progress should be used as an opportunity to set expectations. And remember, as you said, people putting money into a Crowdfunding campaign already have low expectations. I've found it's much easier to have an uncomfortable conversation about a project early on than it is to have an angry conversation down the road, especially since the latter will almost always result in the loss of the customer.
      Yeah, but the expected frequency of communication here is kind of unreal. Weekly? (I just saw that in the last page) Really? In a normal business environment, investors get updates quarterly. Surely more frequently than monthly is uncalled for.
      Now, I'm not saying there aren't things TMS couldn't do better on communication, but some of the expectations in this thread are unreal.

      Also, I'm not an outside observer here. I'm waiting on Grail Knights for my KoE models.
      I have to disagree. I just went through the last 10 pages, and there's a frustrating back-and-forth pattern of contributors asking for updates, and Kanadian stating that he's been too busy and should have something to provide them (be it updates, shipping info, etc.) within a couple of weeks. When that deadline passes, people then ask again for more information.

      Again, from a business owner's perspective, it's far better to set realistic expectations and exceed them than the alternative, which is what's happening here. If Kanadian had said that shipping would happen by June and explained why, people would be understandably upset but the expectation would be set. Rather, on January 23rd he said that the bulk of the KoE models would be shipped at the beginning of February, and here halfway through the month it seems most people are still waiting for details.

      A customer only buys something if the value of the item they're purchasing exceeds the cost. In addition to actual monetary consideration, things like long wait times, lack of communication, and failing to meet promises all add to an item's cost proposition. I would emphatically recommend that TMS nominate someone to regularly communicate realistic updates on the company's behalf, otherwise I fear a majority of customers will simply find the cost of doing business with them to be too high.
    • Midgaardsormen wrote:

      I wish you would spend more time on getting orders out, rather than making new sculpts.
      They have to make the rest of the KoE to get out the KoE orders.
      “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW

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      Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
    • Nicreap wrote:

      Midgaardsormen wrote:

      I wish you would spend more time on getting orders out, rather than making new sculpts.
      They have to make the rest of the KoE to get out the KoE orders.
      BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE *stopms ground, throws him self on the ground and rolls around while screaming*

      I guess you have a point, its just realy frustrating, i ordered some skellies from Mantic same day i ordered the stuff from TMS, they came like 7 days ago, maybe more.. the same thing happened when i ordered my 2x catapults and was waiting for my kickstarted Ark of Ages, there was a realy long dilivery time.. i guess what im trying to say, i wish they would increase production capacty, else ill end up having to look else where for my minis, because waiting without knowing if stuff is comming is frustrating..
      Also when you look at the page and something says "in stock" but marked orange, i just assume that the stock is low.. not that its on backorder
      That wich dosnt kill me better run...

      #makeVanquisherEternalGreatAgain

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Midgaardsormen ().

    • I agree, on models they have finished there should be a much faster output.

      For KoE, I can understand the decision to focus on getting the last models made so they can ship everything over delaying everyone who got grail knights to ship other orders. Obviously, being able to do both would be ideal, but that seems to exceed the manpower TMS has.
      “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW

      UD Army Community Support

      Playtester

      Supreme Death Cult Hierarch

      Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
    • I was pretty hard on Kanadian and TMS a ways back when I criticized some early price comparisons that were made to GW.

      But from day one I loved the look of the models and was very much looking forward to seeing the KOE range succeed, and I very much respected what TMS was trying to accomplish for 9th Age players.

      Kickstarters are very difficult, particularly the way businesses try to sort of jump-start themselves into existence through consumer support. Once a kickstarter starts to make commitments on shipments and promises for delivery of product things can get very tricky very quickly. In particular with miniature startups, with all the potential problems that can come up with cost of production, casting issues, and any number of unexpected problems with logistics, changes of staff, schedule, and a hundred other things.

      I have always been wary of Kickstarters for these reasons. It's not blaming TMS specifically as much as it is being cautious of the very nature of trying to start up miniature production and actually fulfill customer orders.

      I agree with Squirrelloid when he says that Kickstarters are not pre-orders. That is exactly right. Pre-order means that a company has a sufficient mass of product already produced and being put onto shelves, with the pre-order time being used by the company to merely begin packaging and to work out and finish off payment systems and shopping carts, as well as setting an actual, official release date when customers can expect orders to begin moving in the mail.

      A Kickstarter by contrast is a company saying that we want to produce this line of product, and we hope to be able to eventually actually produce it and ship it to customers. Based on that hope, consumers donate money to the startup with promises that at some point they will see the product become a reality.

      But none of those things are guarantees.

      TMS is trying to pull off mass-production of resin miniatures, and do so with a limited staff and resources. It's not easy. Even with the best intentions it's no guarantee that a Kickstarter will actually become "stock" that can be ordered off the shelves.
      There are many magic rings in the world Bilbo Baggins, and none of them should be used lightly!
    • Again, we’re confounding excusable production issues with a general pass for all company shortfalls. Having your car break down is a good excuse for being late to work, but it’s not a good excuse for not calling your boss to tell them so. We should have low expectations for the outcome of Kickstarters, but that doesn’t mean we should have low expectations for the companies behind them.

      There is no excuse for poor communication in business, and crowd funding is no different.
    • Marcos24 wrote:

      You have to respect that they refuse to send out orders unless the results are high quality.
      I do. But I’d also expect that to be clearly communicated to the customer without them needing to ask about its status. Example:

      “Marcos24,

      I wanted to reach out to let you know that there will be a short delay in the shipping of your order, which our automated system previously indicated would be tomorrow. We strive for the very highest production standards at our company, and discovered the the lastest batch did not meet our exacting demands. As a result, we are remaking them and expect that they will be shipped by [date]. Though I do not anticipate further complications, I will personally inform you of any change.

      I apologize for any inconvenience, and thank you for your patience and business. As ever, please feel free to contact me directly with any questions.

      Sincerely,
      Dan”

      Handled.
    • Excellently put @Dan I honestly just want some communication and updates. I have stated many a time I have the lord on hippo and it is cast superb and is a great model so very much prepared to wait for the same quality just the communication is my only concern as I might need to buy some models from elsewhere to field in my army in a couple of upcoming tourney if it’s not ready by mid March.
      We got an update today so hopefully we can have one mid March for the ones that have not been completed
    • Anyone got any close up pictures of the crew on the TMS battle sphinx? Trying to figure out how they want the halberd that comes attached to two arms to go on. xP
      Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.

      Legal

      Playtester

      Chariot Command HQ

    • @Kanadian - just wanted to nod towards my email about a couple of issues with my UD models before the KoE stuff ships. I am waiting patiently but excitedly for those...my model cabinets are going to look very full!

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