Siege rules

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    • karwansaraypublishers.com/pw/m…/blog/how-besiege-castle/

      karwansaraypublishers.com/pw/m…e/blog/how-defend-castle/

      Things you might find useful.


      Also on the above notes on buildings w T. I would advise against it. I have an idea as an alternate suggestion which I'll post after work tonight

      Queen of Pants


      To plagiarize Cato the Elder "And further WYSIWYG must be destroyed"

      Like Mordhiem? Try my homebrew skirmish rules docs.google.com/document/d/1Tg…SDxvTUko/edit?usp=sharing
    • So what I propose is an armor value system for the towers and gates, wherein, you can do effects to wall sections and gates and towers.

      Basically, the sections would have a seige value let's say 12. when you attack the section, you auto hit with the weapons but then see if you penetrate. To determine roll d6 add the S of the attack, if it's equal to 12 or more roll below

      1. Apply a hit at the highest strength of the attacking weapon on a model on the wall
      2. Apply d3 hits as above
      3. Apply d6 hits as above
      4. Section Damaged, defenders no longer get cover
      5. Severe damage, section becomes impassable, units in section must flee as if broken or panicked from the section towards the inside of the castle, each model in the unit then takes a wound on a 5+
      6. Wall section destroyed, remove it, apply result of 5 above to units occupying that section
      Not set in stone or fully formed, but this will allow us to not have to keep track of wounds per section with minimum effort, and provide fun, fast game play. We can even adjust the chart or the seige value based on where it's being attacked and count units with a ram as having str 6 and able to attack with all their models, etc

      What do you guys think of this type of rules set?

      Queen of Pants


      To plagiarize Cato the Elder "And further WYSIWYG must be destroyed"

      Like Mordhiem? Try my homebrew skirmish rules docs.google.com/document/d/1Tg…SDxvTUko/edit?usp=sharing
    • Firsty thank for both your source and your input. How ever having played with a similar set of rules for vehicles in 40k, I do not think that this is good set of rules for caste walls for three reasons:
      1)'Chance of destroy the walls in one hit, I don't want to read the battle report when half the castle is destroyed by turn one.
      2) If you are unlucky and don't roll a six the walls are not coming down, in 40k you sometime had a lucky rhino take a silly amount of shots to destroy.
      3) The walls are not easier to destroy the more damage they take, this important as it add to the drama.

      I don't think the recording damage on walls is a problem as we do all the time for monster and characters.
      Balance is not easy, but it's vital.
    • I would take as an example the game "lord of the rings" from GW.

      Walls and towers must not be breakable. I mean, you can not base a "siege" in "i would grind each stone of the wall and then I get into the castle". I would say, you need some time, luck and precision to make a hole in it.

      I would classify the destruction of a wall in 3 phases:

      1) small path: just a unit of skirmisher can go throw per turn.
      2) medium path: units with a front of 5 ranks go throw it
      3) is there anzy stone left? the wall is removed from the game.

      Then you give some realism to the destruction of the wall/ tower.

      The differences between wall and tower should be that tower can contain an unitfor shooting purpose.

      For the "wounding table" I would use the system decribed before, similar like vehicle destruction.

      Just fix a number, for example 12 and then roll a dice. Penetrating weapons as cannon, catapult monsters with towering presence can roll 2 dices. must not be easy...


      In order to balance the game, the attacking player should be able to acquired all he needs by paying the points.

      and so on...haha i like to much this topic
    • Artegis wrote:

      I would take as an example the game "lord of the rings" from GW.

      Walls and towers must not be breakable. I mean, you can not base a "siege" in "i would grind each stone of the wall and then I get into the castle". I would say, you need some time, luck and precision to make a hole in it.

      I would classify the destruction of a wall in 3 phases:

      1) small path: just a unit of skirmisher can go throw per turn.
      2) medium path: units with a front of 5 ranks go throw it
      3) is there anzy stone left? the wall is removed from the game.

      Then you give some realism to the destruction of the wall/ tower.

      The differences between wall and tower should be that tower can contain an unitfor shooting purpose.

      For the "wounding table" I would use the system decribed before, similar like vehicle destruction.

      Just fix a number, for example 12 and then roll a dice. Penetrating weapons as cannon, catapult monsters with towering presence can roll 2 dices. must not be easy...


      In order to balance the game, the attacking player should be able to acquired all he needs by paying the points.

      and so on...haha i like to much this topic
      My problem with breachs,is that extremely difficult to model where the hole is going to be ahead of time and I do not make the player buy more scenically that is necessary as this will drive away players. Even using markers to mark where the hole is would be awkward.

      I am sorry by I do not see the problem with using wounds as damage for castle walls, It has the big advantage of being already understood by players and naturally means that you have to build up the damage.
      Balance is not easy, but it's vital.
    • Giving builds stats works mostly consistently with the current rules.
      You need to add a few special rules to make things function somewhat realistically.

      ie.
      Building
      Cannot be harmed by infantry, cavalry or ranged attacks from non-artillery weapons

      Destroyed!(X)
      Models occupying the building/tower suffer a Strength X hit unless they pass an initiative test

      Pushed into Battle
      Cannot move on it's own, requires a unit of X models (larger models count as more than 1 model) to move it

      You get the idea.
      Buildings and such can then have varying toughness values and wound counts without all needing to be toughness 7+ with loads of wounds.
      We don't need a new sort of way to hurt them like a damage table either.
      You don't get half destroyed effects (unless they get added as a rule) but it doesn't make the game more complex since everything follows rul


      A wall might get
      Mv0 Ws0 St0 To8 Wo6 In0 At0 Ld0
      Building
      Destroyed(4)

      A tower might get
      Mv0 Ws0 St0 To8 Wo8 In0 At0 Ld0
      Building
      Destroyed(5)

      A siege tower might get
      Mv0 Ws0 St5 To7 Wo7 In0 At0 Ld0
      Pushed into Battle
      Destroyed(3)
      Impact Hits(D3+1)

      A siege tower with a battering ram might get
      Mv0 Ws0 St6 To7 Wo7 In0 At0 Ld0
      Pushed into Battle
      Destroyed(3)
      Impact Hits(D3+1)
      Grind(D6)

      Fairly straightforwards, easy enough to add into the game.
      Potentially no cost added since the defender would get a set of walls and towers and such to make a building, the attacker would get a set of siege equipment. You'de be allowed to spend more from your army allowance of course.
    • Greetings! I have been working on something in the ballpark of siege although not quite the same as what is being discussed here. The drive behind this is really just wanting to play with more cool toys.

      Please take a look and let me hear your thoughts:


      Display Spoiler

      FORTIFICATION RULES
      Fortifications are a new category that may be included in a 9th Age army using the following rules:

      FORTIFICATIONS
      A fortification is a special type of terrain purchased during army creation. A fortification is a 0-1 per army category with a maximum allowance of 10%. Size may vary with the base being up to 14” square and the actual fortification no larger than 12” x 12” (for example a 12” x 12” castle upon a 14” x 14” hill).

      Fortifications are deployed as a war machine. Fortifications follow the rules for Walls and Obscuring Terrain. This means multiple units may occupy a fortification at one time, so long as the rules for unit spacing are followed and the models can physically fit. In addition:
      • Fortifications and units inside of them follow the rules for unit facing and arcs. If unclear, facing can be determined by drawing an imaginary “X” through the center of the terrain feature as shown on page 7 of the rulebook.
      • Each fortification must have 1 or more entrance points which must be represented on the model. Units need not be able to physically fit through the entrance. In close combat entrances do not count as walls and hence do not confer Distracting during the first round of combat.
      • Fortifications may include additional terrain types (if available) of: field, hill, forest, ruin, water, which must be represented on the model. For example, a castle fortification may be surrounded by a moat (water), while an undead fortification may be located inside a dilapidated city (ruin).
      • Only units completely inside the actual fortification benefit from associated terrain rules. This is an exception to the normal terrain rules.
      • Units inside a fortification lose scoring until the turn after the unit leaves the terrain piece.
      MOVEMENT
      • Models within a fortification may ONLY declare charges from entrances but otherwise move according to the normal rules for the terrain type(s) of the fortification.
      MAGIC AND SHOOTING
      • A maximum of 20 models can shoot from each facing.
      • All spell ranges including Aura’s are measured from the casting model.
      ARTILLERY
      Some armies with access to war machines may have the option to purchase certain war machines as part of a fortifications defenses, known as Defensive Artillery. If this is allowed it will be stated in the fortification’s options. Units purchased in this manner must abide by the restrictions of both categories (i.e. a cannon would count towards fortifications and its own category). The following rules apply to ALL Defensive Artillery:
      • Change the base size of each war machine to a 40x40mm base.
      • Reduce maximum range of each war machine to 24”. Minimum range is unaffected.
      • Before deployment declare a facing for each war machine to begin the game in. Defensive Artillery must follow the rules for unit facing and arc for drawing line of sight.
      CLOSE COMBAT
      • Units inside a fortification are Steadfast. Units that break from combat while inside a fortification are placed 2d6” from the outside edge of the fortification. This counts as a Flee move. Enemy units cannot pursue but may choose to move into the fortification.
      • Enemy units that lose combat against a fortified unit and fail a break test do not count as breaking from combat but are instead pushed back 2d6” from the fortification. This move will trigger Dangerous Terrain tests in the same manner as Fleeing.
      • At the end of each close combat phase after all break tests are resolved, remaining engaged units automatically disengage from combat. These units follow the rules for unit spacing and are otherwise free to act normally including post combat reforms or pivots. While a fortification is engaged on two sides ignore this effect and units will remain engaged.



      SAMPLE FORTIFICATIONS:
      (these are just examples I quickly threw together)

      Daemonic Legions
      Basalt Monolith 200 pts

      Special Rules:
      Magic Resistance (3)

      Slaughter Pact: Units within 8” gain Frenzy and Unstable. This replaces Daemonic Instability. Daemons of Wrath also gain Hatred. These effects last so long as the unit is in range.

      Options:
      May add addition terrain:
      Field 50 pts
      Ruin 50 pts



      Vampire covenant
      Necropolis 150 pts

      Special Rules:
      Abandon Hope: Enemy units within 8” suffer -1 Leadership. Spells from the path of Divination originating within 8” or targeting a unit with at least 1 model within 8” have their casting value increased by 2.

      Options:
      Wail of Woe 50 pts
      Necromantic Aura 50 pts
      Epicenter of Darkness 250 pts
      A Necropolis with this upgrade counts as an additional secondary objective. In addition, units of skeletons and zombies inside count as scoring for the Necropolis.

      May add addition terrain:
      Hill 50 pts
      Forest 50 pts
      Ruin 50 pts



      Dwarven Holds
      Holdfast 300 pts

      Special Rules:
      Innate Defense (6+)
      Dangerous Terrain (1)

      Trap Doors and Dwarf Craft Secrets: The entrances of a Holdfast are hidden and are not revealed until a dwarven holds unit inside the holdfast declares a charge. In addition, dwarven units inside a Holdfast gain Strider for so long as the unit is inside. Dwarven Fortifications have a maximum limit of 20%.

      Options:
      Must add 1 or more addition terrain:
      Hill 50 pts
      Forest 50 pts
      Water 50 pts

      May add artillery:

      All engines of war.
      AVOIDANCE FAILS 28% OF THE TIME FOLKS. -SE
      Undying Deathstar Construction Inc.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Stygian ().