My impressions on 1.2 O&G Army Book.

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  • My impressions on 1.2 O&G Army Book.

    Hi everyone,


    As usual I will post my impressions on new 1.2 O&G book. I am somewhat displeased with it since lot of issues was not addressed aside from making book in line with 1.2 main rulebook. There are also few instances of making things worse. 9th age team will probably address lot of this issues in 1.3. But I would like to point some thinks (maybe it will be helpful). I played only 3 small games (not so small miracle with small kid in home J). As those were very quick (and we even did not finish one of them) I have no report to present but my feelings about various units and their usability is shown here.


    Additionally I wonder when will get awesome/color book with fluff for our beloved Greenskins? I can’t wait :D:D:D:D


    All points prices I will put in X/Y format when X is 1.1 price (after modyfications in new edition) while Y is new 1.2 price for clarity as new prices were basically doubled.


    General impression is that O&G AB needs focus and some viable playstyles. Right now only Gunline and MSU seem as usable choices (although MSU is very hard to use effectively and is extremely easy to counter by enemy that knows what he is doing). According to RT poll we should have effective horde tactics based on tons of green bodies and optionally even option to regrow wounds. To do this we need synergies lots of synergies that would support this playstyle. We have preciously little.


    Ok, now Er we go!


    Greenhide Races: No changes here. As it goes there were proposition to add poison to forest goblins as racial trait. It would be viable if it would work for both shooting and CC and made forest gobbos quite expensive (similar to orc price) or if it would be CC only and very cheap (1 point difference between them and common gobbos seem just right). Mostly because CC for forest goblins who are scouting unit is just not worth the points.


    Special rules:

    Unruly – Minor change here. Unit has to have more than 50% of models with this rule for it to count… Nothing major. This rule will still come into play infrequently and it is mostly fluffy. This is place where work on synergies supporting horde playstyles can begin. One idea could be to give those that have this rule -1Ld on overruns or pursuits but 3d6 and discard highest on any other Ld rolls (as long as they are in horde formation of course).


    Born to fight – same as before. Still +1S on the first round of combat. It is ok although it would be good if it would have some added umpf in horde. For example it could work for additional turn if you are in horde, or grant hatred or something.


    Venomus Fangs – Changed to d3+1 multiple wounds from Ordinance. Make difference only with flying targets. Nothing major but a tiny nerf to gargantula which was hit enough already. But it simplifies use of this rule (this is another rule that does not come to play very often so it is relatively minor).


    I found only one difference in shambolic, running amok, Ricoshet combo. Now it works on models S. So it can be modified with spells for example. With spells we have we can have gnasher wrecking team with S6 instead of S5 attacks. Nothing to major but it is there.

    Armory

    Power Shrooms – It is different. Every Cave gobo mage have 2 for 20/40p cost increase. If it is worth it we shall see. It now decrease any dispel attempt against spell when used with casting spell, but it is declared before casting. So you can cast, not hget the spell and be wounded. It is definitely fluffy with goblin sneakiness but most people think they are not worth it. I kind of agree since I havent boght them since I think 0.8, but I am not certain.

    Mammoth stabber – same good old stabber with exception of adjustments for 1.2.


    Magic items:

    Difference of point costs for hero lord level characters are officially gone. Many of our magic items are extremely situational or limited in who can use them. This should be remedied, because we have several magic items slots that are useless most of the time. Generally our magic items need work. Items we could use should be T and Ld related as well as something to promote hordes, but most importantly they should be more universal in usage.


    Axe of the Aporcalypse –65/130 price so basically old Lord Price for everyone which means old hero level characters cannot take it. It works the same with exception of no limit to only orcs so goblin lord can use it as well (something to explore here). Still interesting albeit slightly overpriced item.


    Maza's Zappin Bow – Cheap and decent item for goblin character accompanying gobbos with bows. Since gobbos now have standard bows it would synergies better, but is still good anti air utility and more importantly a tool for negating some movement penalties. Either way this is gunline tool.


    Backstabbing Dirk - very cheap magic weapon only for gobbos that basically gives AP(1). Flank charge S boos rarely comes to play. I usually prefer other options since it is very situational and not worth its points for AP(1). It should be changed or removed in favor of something else.


    Crown of the Cavern King –40/80p. – no gargantula shenanigans for awesome 24” IP anymore :(. It basically just gives 6+ AS, vanguard and let’s move (but not march or shoot) after rallying. Very situational IMO since it requires both goblin general and particular brand of them. It is nice to have that extra 6” of IP but 80p can be spent better and limitation of having to use it with same greenhide race limits it basically to goblins, gnasher dashers, goblin raiders and goblin chariots. I think this is another item that while not bad per se is to situational for its own good and should be at least modified for usage by wider variety of heroes. Maybe both gobbos and orcs with keeping same greenhide race restriction?


    Pan of Protection Pinchin’ – Another to situational item. It is cheap (30/15) and fluffy, but has little application since gobbos low stats mean he will die easily regardless of this item usage. It works only against extremely defensive oriented enemy characters in challenge. It has not changed. Another item to replace IMO.


    Lucky Boar’s Leg – Very cheap with 15/30 pricetag. But still useless for army that has very little in way of cavalry that anyone cares about. Situational and mostly useless. Equatinians would love and prize it but O&G … meh. My solution - replace, decreasing cost will not make it good unless it would be free.


    Waaargh! Paint – Same price as boars leg. I do not know why anyone would buy it for points as it is more detrimental than helpful most of the time. It is not situational in that it is mostly useless. If asked what to do with this item I would quote Daleks EXTERMINATE!!! And then replace.


    Mikinok’s Totem – This is our best item IMO. Not that it is OP. But just perfect. Useful on several units with wide utility and interesting negative effects. It requires work for it to do stuff but it is perfect and balanced and is properly priced.


    Ironhide Icon –25/50 for 5++ pure simple and useful for units that will be shot to death. Good useful item. No more no less.


    Army organization: this is new way to build army. We have pretty standard setup here. Not much to comment until I test it more. Maybe I would include BS shooting in death from above slot or maybe only bows or something in those lines. Also, no more triple gargantulas. And If you take two there is no way to take wyvern or gigant. If we could get really good synergies into core units, and maybe fix Orcs problem (See Edbashers and Orcs merge thread: 'Edbashers and Orcs merge.) I could recommend upping Core tax a little for bigger hordes. But this depends on entirety of AB so I am careful with it.


    Characters:

    Lords of Fightin’ – all Warlords and chiefs rolled into one. Prices are (after doubling) quite high but both common and IO variants have respectively Heavy and plate armor base. Feral orc variants are still overpriced IMO. Mounts look ok IMO. With upgrades I have one issue – WAARGH!!! It is mandatory to BUY it for 20/40p for any orc general… I dislike it. WAAAARGH!!! Is giving swiftstride and +1M I think it should not be mandatory, or be something that gives umph for first round of combat (this would be consistent with RT poll results). Like hatred since we lost reroll in combat spell from BGG path. Statwhise Chief orc characters gained 1 would! This is interesting. I agree with it since they should be tougher than gobbos. Is it however general trend in all AB so it is rather than gobbos chiefs are squishier.


    Orc Shaman – No more big and small only one choice with upgrades. Basically character have 1 spell and is small wizard but can be upgraded to have up to 4 spells for 25/50p each or/and to have master level with +2 casting for 35/70p. Frankly if I got 4 spells I do not think I would pay those extra 35p. Only incentive could be 100/200 magic item limit. Orc shamans have 3 wound base but only 7 Ld so Orc shaman generals are not such an great idea anymore. If you count this mean that after all the upgrades Orc shaman costs same as old big orc shaman but with decreased stats. So nerf here. I do not exactly know why. It is not like Ld 8 was major or something but it made some builds in small points games viable. They are not now. Ferals are 10p. More expensive which is not worth it since most of the time you will give them ward better than 6++. Mounts look ok. Magic too although I would remove thaumaturgy in favor of Druidism for feral orcs or just remove it and give druidism only to forest goblin witchdoctors.

    Orc mounts: Seem mostly unchanged aside from minor point’s adjustments that nevertheless seem ok. There is one change I noticed. Boar chariot have mounts protection of 6+ instead of 5+ and heavy armor. This means that common orc general can achieve maximum of 2+ and IO 1+ but it impacts boar chariots as a unit more. This is strange since it is pulled by boars and they still give 5+ as mount protection?? Maybe some kind of a mistake? I do not know. Also Wyvers count for big and nasties which means 2 big monsters max if you do not take gigants.


    Lords of Sneakin’ – Again all lords and heroes rolled into one. Chiefs are 0-6 to prevent over spamming them (not that it would be viable with new character limit). Kings are 3W chiefs 2. Again some upgrades were included in costs (armor, poison for forest). Greentide is automatically given to general for free. Its problem is that it needs army to be built specifically to use it (several big blocks of spear gobbos in hordes) and it is not that great on gobbos with their meager stats. Meh but since it is free… Mounts also stay similar with one exception. You can take Chieftain on gargantula if you so desire. But it counts towards big and nasties so it does not give extra gargantula. Which would be ok if not for extra nerfs (mostly web launcher and spider shrine mandatory upgrade).


    Goblin Witch Doctor – Ok first of all. I love the new name! It is so much more fitting (I have perfect model BTW for forest goblin WICHDOCTOR!) and on top of that sets them apart from their orc counterparts more. 2W 6 or 5 Ld. they are built in a similar manner to Orc shamans – 1 spell base level small mage with similar upgrades. Cave goblin variant is 20/40p more expensive but automatically gets 2 power shrooms. As for mouts Scuttler spider is a little cheaper.


    Goblin mounts – mostly same old same old. Gargantula is 0-1 per army which is unnecessary since it also counts towards big and nasty limit. It would be perfectly ok to have two chieftains on gargantulas and no other monsters what so ever. Also Witchdoctor on gargantula has to have master level and has to take spider shrine for 40/80 points. It is to much as this upgrade is not that great. Gargantula was nerfed to much each little nerf would be ok, but in combination it is just to much. There is no sense in taking witchdoctor on gargantula unless you go for some kind of mage spam that will sit in the same area of the board. On the other hand Cave gnashers should pose some interesting possibilities.


    Core – minimum of 25% - this is ok. I think we could have higher limit maybe 30% or even 35% if our rules would be more in lines of supporting hordes and Edbashers would not be nerfed. I think this is the way not limiting edbashers.


    Orcs – No changes here just points x2. Orcs are just basic core unit. But cannot compete with anything other than other core units. T4 is nice but it is not enough to make them great.If WAAARGH!!! And unruly rules would be redesign to support numerous units more they could become great backbone of O&G army, as it is they suffer from standard stats low I crappy Ld and also form big 25mm bases who significantly decrease their abilities in combat but dos not benefit them against warmachine shooting (since templates are gone). There are usages for them since first bunch is really cheap. But they are one of our worse units. One idea what do is to merge them with Edbashers one way or the other (see thread on the subject: 'Edbashers and Orcs merge.)


    ‘Edbashers – Edbashers were hit hard. They were double nerfed and feral orc edbashers even triple nerfed. Their max number was reduced to 30. Which is totally inadequate for light armored troops with I2, because they need numbers to survive in quantities large enough to do stuff. Secondly their base cost (for first 10) were upped from 70/140p to 80/160p which would be only nerf I would accept. Thirdly price for Feral upgrade was doubled. Again Ferals are not worth it with 6++ save, no way to increase it and frenzy which is double edged sword in low Ld army. In essense Edbashers were hit waaaaay to hard. Slight base price increase would be enough for one nerf. But they were hit 3 times. I asked in past and will ask again. Nerf slightly one thing at a time not several aspects of a unit at once. With buffs you do this great with IO. This change is also opposite to promoting horde playstyle development. There are ways to make Edbashers ok without doing this. For example there could be a rule that you can take 1 edbasher for every 2 Orcs. That way you can take them but not without normal orcs for them to bash heads.


    Orc Boar Riders – These guys get cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. They dropped another point for models after first 5, shield is 2 points cheaper and feral variant is free, I do not know if it is worth it but maybe 4+, 6++, frenzy and 4/2p option for parried weapons in comparison to 3+ for the same price could be decent. Either way they have small chance of delivering those attacks as they strike at I2 or 3 at best. Either way for small scoring or disruption unit those guys are surprisingly decent. Strange enough unlike goblin raiders they stayed in core.


    Goblins – on paper there is not much change in goblins. Unfortunately one change of making some upgrades to goblin units mandatory makes them worse. Main goblin power was always their price and option to take some extra toys. Now both nets (for cave gobbos) and cc poison (for forest gobbos) are mandatory (their cost is incuded in price of models). This means that forest goblin with cc poison is worth 4,5/9 points! Add in 1 point for spear and shield and 1 for throwing weapons and he is 1 point short of an ORC! Same goes for cave gobbos and nets. It seem that someone want to force usage of nets and Cc poison (and with nets it is not logical as it is easy just not to put net models into unit). This mean common gobbos are vastly superior wit 6/3 point cost and shield/bow combo on top of that. At least terrible mothers kiss is gone. In my opinion 3 point price on a goblin could be worth it only if poison worked for both shooting and cc or ability to choose one (altho I do not see anybody choosing cc poison on gobbos). Cave gobbos were hit similarly with 2 p. per model pricetag for nets. Nets were fun useful tool that could be put on specific unit with task of going into CC. I do not see nets on bow cave gobo unit ever. And now I have to pay for them… On top of that mad gits got more expensive by 5/10pp. Upgrade I am not happy about is giving gobbos normal bows. This mean that they are half decent gunline unit now (cheaper than orcs with bows and with possible move and shoot due to magic bow). There is limit of 3 but it is ok. And I dislike gunline playstyle. Shield bow combo is actually free as well as shady gits whitch makes common gobbos even more superior. Rest stayd same as before. People with full Cave of forest gobo armies will be very displeased with this too.I am extreamly unhappy with changes that were made here especially as they work against goal set in RT poll of making us more of a horde army. Shady gits rules were somewhat clarified. On top of forced upgrades problem, good thing that could inforce horde play might be decreasing of goblin strenght to 2 and reducing their points (nice idea of @theunwantedbeing) that way they could become cheaper.


    Special – no limit here, basically it is everything that is not core, big monster, character or warmachine:


    Iron Orcs – With small steps those guys are slowly becoming half decent. They are a little bit more expensive but as they get plate armor base which was, at least for me, a must have either way. So in essense they got a little bit cheaper (around 1 p.). Aside from that no changes. I like that they are slowly adjusted to be useful not made OP or nerfed to the ground in one go.


    Mounted ‘Eadbashers – Points were shuffeled. Base cost is 16/32 but common variant cost additional 3/6 points, and have Heavy armor base and ferals just 1 / 2. So if you want barebone ones for some strange reason ferals might be viable. If you do not care about them charging stupidly out of objective due to failing frenzy test, parried weapons for feral are 3/6p tho. I still do not think this unit has any merit. Edbasher and Orcs merge could solve their problem too.


    Orc Boar Chariot – It got 5/10 p more expensive for total of 85/170p. It actually got nerfed as it lost mouts protection 5+ and got 6+ only. Heavy armor is base but it means only that total AS is still 4+ for a price increased by 5p. 3+ armor made those really useful with 4+ they again will have problems with competing against goblin chariots. Limit of 3 per army.


    Goblin raiders – 60/120 price tag, not much changed stat whise. They are limited to 4 units and are in special. This mean that all our real chaff is in special now (unless you consider boar riders chaff). All upgrades and rules looks similar. Only change are bows instead of short bows which with speed of those guys is rather minor.


    Goblin Wolf Chariot – 60/120p max of 3. 1 to 3 units. Cheap fast chariots with T4 and 4 wounds. With 5+ AS they are again superior to Orc boar chariots aside from character mounts.


    Gnasher Dashers – 75/150 and 12/24 p for additional models they are more expensive. Increase in price was nececery. Aside from that they look similar and qite ok. They can be joined by characters on cave gnashers and have similar rules as in 1.1. All in all pretty good, balanced unit.


    Gnasher heard – No major changes. They are limited to 5 per army. Which is not a problem. And cost 8/16 p per piece. This is another glass cannon unit, lots of attacks with S5 but T of 3 and abysmal Ld of 5 means they have to be used carefully. They are also extreamly vunurable to shooting and quite fast due to M5 and war beast status. One think I think they need is upgrade to their They’re Everywhere! Rule. Right now it does almost nothing.


    Gnasher Wrecking Team – for 70p and with how their rules look like now, on top of fact that Magic Movement does not work for them, they are mostly random threat unit. 70/140 p to redirect some low level shooting or one spell is not worth it IMO. I do not see a lot of them on the table lately too. They are limited to 2 per army but I do not want even one.


    Trolls – This one hurt. They rea qute bad in comparison to almost any other MI. Single troll is now Woooping 60/120 points! Stats are the same and additional trolls are 34/68p per model. All and all this mean slight points increase. It would be warranted if some trolls problems were addressed. But they have not. So it makes Trolls are even more overpriced than in 1.1. Only quasi-viable type are Cave trolls (8/16 extra points) because they provide decent saves even against flaming, but they still require close supervision or Ld 4 stupidity make them useless for the rest of the game. Commons are not worth it as are Bridge trolls (7/14 p extra for distracting and Strider (water)). Even Cave trolls are way too expensive IMHO. All types can be taken in maxed unit of 10. There are several ways to address their problems. Here are few examples. One would be adding MI character on 40mm base to babysit them. Another would be champion option (which would increase survivability of another babysitting character). Yet another would be to increase their damage potential somehow (GW or whatever). Also River trolls need something to be viable. Maybe some kind of debuff on enemies in CC due to their stench?


    Grotlings – 40/80p., 10/20 for extra base up to 6. Still limited to 3 per army (which is strange considering how numerous those guys have to be). Aside form that they are sam close range redirector they were previously. I like them. They to could be reduced to S 1. Lets be hones they are not there to do any kind of damage. And they could use another point reduction.


    Scrap Wagon – Here is controversial one. It is 45/90p random chariot. It lost 2 of its upgrades namely Smasher (S5) and Smells Like Green Spirit (Whyyy I loved this name sooooo much – distracting and hard target). On the other hand Pursuit mode (increased random move) and Pointed Sticks (AP2) are now included in base cost which have not increased. I think it is good tradeoff. It makes this unit more of what it should be. One use, random, but cheap tool.


    Death from Above – 15% seems ok if we want to nutter gunline a little but it should include also (as well as in core) at least orcs with crossbows and bows, and with slight increase also goblins with bows (Commons with shield bow combo need some thought as it is their primary equipment). Is so small increase could be in order. If forest goblins would gain poison shooting in any form they could count both in core and in here too. In standard game 3 splaterers or 1 splaterer 2 Git lunchers and Screwerer can be fit.


    All warmachines gained wounds up to 5 and lost T to the level of 4. This is interesting, making them more sucaptible to low S shooting but more resilient to weak chaff attacs.

    Skewerer – basically same 1 shot BS3 balista for 45/90p. With 4 copies it can be spammed. With changes to warmachines it now can be more viable. But we shall see.


    Greenhide Catapults – max of 3 catapults/git lunchers. Splaterer is 100/200 and Git Luncher 90/180p. You can take any combination. Both are somewhat nerfed as I understand it witch is good for getting read of gunline. But gunline is still best choice we have. First of all they requite BS roll. Splater have S7(3) and new altilery rules and Git Luncher do noit have correction (only that n partial he still does d3+1). Orc overseeer is now even less important since diference between 5 and 6 T4 woulds is smaller than one between 3 and 4 T7 wounds.


    BIG ’N NASTY – Those are our monsters with 25% we can have mostly 2 big monsters max. Maybe 3 with inclusion of giants.


    Gargantula – Poor ol’ Gargantula. It deserved point increase it gained several small nerfs including point increase. It is 240/480 now. There can be only one web launcher per army. If you take Witchdoctor on it you have to take spider shrine. And regardless of use (monster or mount) in standard game there can be max of 2. I presume limit of 3 is for bigger games. I think this is too much. They will still be used as this is still our best big monster.


    Great Green Idol – This guy has sooo much potential for creating good synergies to support horde playstyle. It is all wasted though L since it is still ... terrible to say the least. It is 220/440p now with same stats build in 4+ save. It can gain BSB status for 50/100p (Never EVER use this upgrade as you need your BSB and this guy is easy target as it is that way enemy gains additional points both for upgrade and BSB when he slays him – and he will, either by mass low S attacks or by some specialized monster killer tactics/unit). T8 with 6W looks decent on paper but no ward what so ever makes him just a little bit too easy target and AS 4 helps only against low S attacks. Nerf to warmachines helps but not by much. If he could give its buff from afar it would be ok. But he has to be in CC and his range is 8”. So basically for him to do something and not die horribly very fast he has to combo-charge and be placed on the corner and give his buff to 1 (or maximum 2 with very hard setup) unit. This setup is very specific and hard to achieve when your enemy knows what is going on, and do not forget he has target on his back from turn 1. He will be hunted, redirected, blocked and shot whenever opportunity arise and in effect almost never arrive ad position he can actually give his buff. For his price and risk his buffs are not that great either. Hatred or reroll to hit/would would be better and either he should gain some serious saves or he should be able to buff from the back. Some mechanics to encourage hordes would be very wise too. It could also work with some kind of price. For example every unit that gest his buff/s could lose d3 models or 1 wound for a turn of buffing (He can eat them or whatever).


    Giant – 140/280p max 3 per army (only monster it actually counts). He is basically the same. 6++ ward is ok inclusion. It will not do much but it is thematic.

    Ok so it is. 1. Lacks a lot of changes fixes that should be here. But let us hope 1.3 will do that.


    If I made any mistakes please poit them out. And of course please comment.

    Best regards

    Sklodo
    Best regards
    Sklodo

    Retireing for unspecyfied period of time. Sometime I hate the world.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Sklodo ().

  • Thank you for this big analysis ! Maybe you should have added your analysis one V1.2 AB and the RT poll so it dont get lost in some thread somewhere


    My 2 cents below :


    Sklodo wrote:

    According to RT poll we should have effective horde tactics based on tons of green bodies and optionally even option to regrow wounds. To do this we need synergies lots of synergies that would support this playstyle. We have preciously little.

    To support better the Horde playstyle for OnG, we should have a change in the Steadfast rule. Horde and Steadfast doesnt work well together because you loose numbers of ranks.
    If we had something to be Steadfast counting column instead of rank, it could help ?


    Sklodo wrote:

    I found only one difference in shambolic, running amok, Ricoshet combo. Now it works on models S. So it can be modified with spells for example. With spells we have we can have gnasher wrecking team with S6 instead of S5 attacks. Nothing to major but it is there.
    You meant S7/S6 instead of S6/S5 ?


    Sklodo wrote:

    Power Shrooms – It is different. Every Cave gobo mage have 2 for 20/40p cost increase. If it is worth it we shall see. It now decrease any dispel attempt against spell when used with casting spell. It is definitely more interesting and more in fluff with goblin sneakiness.
    Big nerf to cave gobo wizard. More expensive for an item.... almost useless and risky. You can waste it if you fail the spell casting, but yet you can take the toxic hit :huh:




    Sklodo wrote:

    Crown of the Cavern King –40/80p. – no gargantula shenanigans for awesome 24” IP anymore :(
    It was already the case in 1.1, not large target, no nerf here or I miss something ?






    Sklodo wrote:

    The big nerf : same cost but -1S, -1T, -1Ld
    Lost of Path of the Big Green Gods and its attribute "Get Them" that synergyzed so well with cc orcs. Being an attribute, you were almost sure to cast 1 spell and so its attribute at least 1 by turn, it was something I could rely on (and it is not easy to rely on anything from the magic phase).
    Now what do we have to support for sure our cc phase ?
    Shamanism attribute ? hurm :huh:






    Sklodo wrote:

    Scrap Wagon – Here is controversial one. It is 45/90p random chariot. It lost 2 of its upgrades namely Smasher (S5) and Smells Like Green Spirit (Whyyy I loved this name sooooo much – distracting and hard target). On the other hand Pursuit mode (increased random move) and Pointed Sticks(AP2) are now included in base cost which have not increased. I think it is good tradeoff. It makes this unit more of what it should be. One use, random, but cheap tool.


    Another nerf in its role. No more S5.
    Pursuit mode was already included in V1.1, so it is not a bonus. Only bonus is the AP2, but, well, for me it is the one I never used, I prefer S5.
    You dont scare T5/6 monsters anymore. Its new role is limited to hunt low T high AS cavalry ?
  • Hello, thanks for the analysis, I hope the AB guys will read it. Could you please explain why you think that Mounted Eadbashers are so bad? They're fast (well for Orcs), can be AS2 and Strength 7 on the charge. I2 sucks but that's a problem we have with all of our Orc units and AS2 should help them survive if they're matched against the right unit. I'm very new to T9A, I'm going to my first tournament in 10 days and will be using Mounted Eadbashers to escort my BSB, I really hope that I haven't done a big mistake :/
  • Logen9Toes wrote:

    Hello, thanks for the analysis, I hope the AB guys will read it. Could you please explain why you think that Mounted Eadbashers are so bad? They're fast (well for Orcs), can be AS2 and Strength 7 on the charge. I2 sucks but that's a problem we have with all of our Orc units and AS2 should help them survive if they're matched against the right unit. I'm very new to T9A, I'm going to my first tournament in 10 days and will be using Mounted Eadbashers to escort my BSB, I really hope that I haven't done a big mistake :/
    They are a special choice. Basically, there are lots of better ways to spend your points. Like Gargantulas, Gnasher herds, Trolls....

    If you "just" use them to escort your BSB (Which you should), you can buy the normal Boar Boys from "Core" section instead. A way better choice.
    Danish O&G player - ETC 2016
  • Really good analysis @Sklodo, think your have a point in most of it.

    Some small "errors" or stuff where I disagree :)

    - It's possible to field 2 big spiders and a wyvern, if you mount a shaman on wyvern. With the new "meta" + miscast table, it's actually not that bad a choice.

    This means that common orc general can achieve maximum of 2+ and IO 1+ but it impacts boar chariots as a unit more. This is strange since it is pulled by boars and they still give 5+ as mount protection?? Maybe some kind of a mistake? I do not know.
    No mistake. I'm pretty sure they wanted to avoid the 1+/4+ IO on Boar Chariot with GW. Although I was the only one using that in ETC, and I havent really seen people using that build. So, yeah, that's actually one of the biggest nerf's we got i think.


    Chiefs are 0-6 to prevent over spamming them (not that it would be viable with new character limit)
    I disagree with you here. Think a 0-6 is needed.



    You can take Chieftain on gargantula if you so desire.
    No you can't :(

    About the Eadbasher nerf. Allmost every O&G list featured 35-40 feral orcs. I think the max. 30 actually is ok. Try fielding them 6 wide with spears. Thats still really good.


    Agree with you on the goblin changes. Common goblins + Nasty S. seems like a really good choice.

    Gnasher Dashers - The price-increase is fair, but it's a big problem that they didnt get "Hard target" when they lost skirmish.

    @Kisscool > Scrap Wagon > Got way better (-2 AP) for free, it's NOT a nerf. They are good is lots of builds.

    Furthermore: Every army got a big nerf in generel. I still think O&G is a good and competitive army. There are lot's of good stuff.
    And yes, a shooting-build is probatly an ok choice, but not the best. And it's really really boring...
    Danish O&G player - ETC 2016
  • Great analysis Skoldo,
    Would be nice to have someone like you on the Armybook Rules Team as you seem to really understand what O&Gs are all about.
    I completely agree with the point that you reiterate in that we are losing our horde theme.
    Since the start of 9th age every edition has added features to our units but also disproportionately increased their points, and thereby my model count keeps shrinking. I play goblins and I am at a stage where to field a competitive list I find myself outnumbered even by EoS players!

    I'd love to see ALL core choices get significant point reductions and to have our core tax increased to 35%. That will bring the old Orc and Goblin horde lists back to the table.

    p.s. Magic mushrooms are utterly useless. Perhaps they would serve some value if you could use the mushroom after seeing opponents dispel attempt.
  • People seem to dislike new mushrooms. I can understand why but I have not playtested them. Maybe if they could be used on oponents magic turn instead to hamper his casting attempt by d3? Or if dispelling was reduced by d6 with big risk big reward philosophy. With possibility of wounding goblin in both cases of course.
    Best regards
    Sklodo

    Retireing for unspecyfied period of time. Sometime I hate the world.
  • Sklodo wrote:

    People seem to dislike new mushrooms. I can understand why but I have not playtested them. Maybe if they could be used on oponents magic turn instead to hamper his casting attempt by d3? Or if dispelling was reduced by d6 with big risk big reward philosophy. With possibility of wounding goblin in both cases of course.
    New mushroom compared to what ? V8 or V1.1 ?
    They are the same than V1.1 (well in the wording they are nerfed for Remains in Play spells),
    and worst than in previous game V8.

    They would be usefull if they added D3 to the spell casting
    But now you have to decide to use them before knowing if you succeed to cast the spell, and you even dont know if your opponent will attempt to dispell this spell anyway. But in any case you can hurt yourself
  • Kisscool wrote:

    Sklodo wrote:

    People seem to dislike new mushrooms. I can understand why but I have not playtested them. Maybe if they could be used on oponents magic turn instead to hamper his casting attempt by d3? Or if dispelling was reduced by d6 with big risk big reward philosophy. With possibility of wounding goblin in both cases of course.
    New mushroom compared to what ? V8 or V1.1 ?They are the same than V1.1 (well in the wording they are nerfed for Remains in Play spells),
    and worst than in previous game V8.

    They would be usefull if they added D3 to the spell casting
    But now you have to decide to use them before knowing if you succeed to cast the spell, and you even dont know if your opponent will attempt to dispell this spell anyway. But in any case you can hurt yourself
    Ok not specyfic enough. I ment mushrooms taking out enemies dispell points. I actually never used them as I had other things to put poits in. That iis why I am saing they are not playtested. Deciding before spellcasting is riski that is why i stated that maby d6 would be better as risk reward thing.
    Best regards
    Sklodo

    Retireing for unspecyfied period of time. Sometime I hate the world.
  • Sklodo wrote:

    Kisscool wrote:

    Sklodo wrote:

    People seem to dislike new mushrooms. I can understand why but I have not playtested them. Maybe if they could be used on oponents magic turn instead to hamper his casting attempt by d3? Or if dispelling was reduced by d6 with big risk big reward philosophy. With possibility of wounding goblin in both cases of course.
    New mushroom compared to what ? V8 or V1.1 ?They are the same than V1.1 (well in the wording they are nerfed for Remains in Play spells),and worst than in previous game V8.

    They would be usefull if they added D3 to the spell casting
    But now you have to decide to use them before knowing if you succeed to cast the spell, and you even dont know if your opponent will attempt to dispell this spell anyway. But in any case you can hurt yourself
    Ok not specyfic enough. I ment mushrooms taking out enemies dispell points. I actually never used them as I had other things to put poits in. That iis why I am saing they are not playtested. Deciding before spellcasting is riski that is why i stated that maby d6 would be better as risk reward thing.
    It does create more of an interesting choice though for both players based on when used and result.