Pinned HE General and News - Discussion

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The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is here! You can read all about it in the news.

  • Well i just crossed the topic but when you say "it's going into the right direction" i can only aree with you.

    I lke the changes about the crown of scorn and the "magicless" army too. I used to play my wizard master in my archer and miscast are rarely that much devastating as you rarely use more than 3 dice. (means max 12hit, 8 death or so) The scoring is till here and the bunker too (unless you play real MSU but the tendencies are more about 20-30 guy)

    I think the dispell scroll will come back again soon.
  • Calcathin wrote:

    Hello my fellow Princes and Queens,

    Anyone feeling up for a quiz tonight? There we go:

    Which of the T9A Masters HbE Dragon lists will remain a valid list under 1.3?

    Hints:
    • Use all information provided by sneak previews and various posts from me on last days
    • There are 2 out of the 7 dragon lists that will remain valid


    See summary of T9A masters here (link)

    Happy hunting. Raise thy Spears!
    Waiting to hear your thoughts and deductions

    Enjoy :)
    Always a Highborn Elf, here or somewhere else
    The HbE Hotfix- My view

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Calcathin ().

  • I actually believe it is the list with just frost and Ancient dragon. I think the restriction that @Calcathin wants us to guess is one that restricts monsters and shooters alltogether. I would imagine something like max 25 or 30% in the combined category of monsters and shooting. This could hopefully make list building a little easier :/

    Since most of the AD lists had AD + Shooting but only one of the AD + FP and no shooting I think this is the list (Northland Hammers)...
  • Riismanden wrote:

    I actually believe it is the list with just frost and Ancient dragon. I think the restriction that @Calcathin wants us to guess is one that restricts monsters and shooters alltogether. I would imagine something like max 25 or 30% in the combined category of monsters and shooting. This could hopefully make list building a little easier :/

    Since most of the AD lists had AD + Shooting but only one of the AD + FP and no shooting I think this is the list (Northland Hammers)...

    I think will not be so...
    The HE problem is that they are weak in solo and strong in team.

    The solution is not in pushing to extreme the lists, but is in the internal balance.
    A common percentage for shooting and monsters is simply too high for monsters and too low for shooting. So HE monster mash will come in any team, but HE will be the future solo tournament big missing...
  • @Riismanden your answer made me think that...there is actually 2 valid lists not only 1! Will update it immediately. Had missed that this list had the Ryma prince honour, which makes it a valid one! You only need to guess another one ;)
    Always a Highborn Elf, here or somewhere else
    The HbE Hotfix- My view

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Calcathin ().

  • Calcathin wrote:

    @EEJR probably easier from a balance point of view. MOCT is not the only one with access to multiple lores (i.e. Briar Maidens would also benefit from it). Without knowing specific input from RT on this, I would say it's just to keep it easier and contained within the lore. I agree with you that it'd bring sinergies to the MoCT but probably that would be a discussion quite low in priorities (call it a Nice to have). To be honest, with the amount of things that we'd like fixed in our army, I wouldn't even bother asking at this stage; I'd rather focus the attention where it really matters

    On magic, have you seen the new scorching salvo from pyromancy? it's just A-M-A-Z-I-N-G. Get rid of all enemy chaff with a single spell. Use asfad and you are talking about a 27" aura causing D6 S4 hits to every unit, for a 10+. Really really interesting pyromancy lore now
    Why are you auracasting from a epicenter? Your D3/6+3 S4 is not going to eliminate most chaff in a chaffless mets anyways. How many armies have chaff pieces now? Most have two max that are not going to be 24in away from your caster. The aura is pointless on the spell.

    While taking ASFAD is only going to skim more points off an already tight and ever tightening and need character allotment as the rest of the book's monsters and chariots get further points or percentage nerfs.

    Therefore I'd disagree about a situational synergistic combo that would be more self-masochistic than anything. It's a neat trick. Just not competitive.

    Riismanden wrote:

    I actually believe it is the list with just frost and Ancient dragon. I think the restriction that @Calcathin wants us to guess is one that restricts monsters and shooters alltogether. I would imagine something like max 25 or 30% in the combined category of monsters and shooting. This could hopefully make list building a little easier :/

    Since most of the AD lists had AD + Shooting but only one of the AD + FP and no shooting I think this is the list (Northland Hammers)...
    If this is true -which I've been hearing through the grape vines as well. HBE will be struggling even more.

    For me -my collection is like 8K old money points even if more than half isn't painted- it's not as much of a model issue as a competitive one. If the book's overall power level dips further due to a push to unvisable infantry models by limiting further single model platforms that do the "heavy lifting." Then I for one will look at a SE or another army possibly as this would be a easier move than to revert back to a never ending drawing board/concept board (which is easier to do if there's a foundation) that hits the elements that keep the external balance afloat.

    Time will tell. I doubt it will be big enough to create this "perfect storm" scenario. However that is yet to be determined.
    I type on mobile so my spelling mistakes can hide that English is my native tongue. :write: :HE: :KoE:

    Evershade Gaming on YouTube
    youtube.com/channel/UCKjjkWnXanizMuTh5obkxpA

    theforgottenturtle.com An Awesome Painting Blog
  • I believe Max Linke and Micha Sholz' lists will still be viable because people were speculating about the possibility of character mounts counting into the character slot instead of whatever "monster slot" a book has (AA for us). I'm not sure if that will be the case but it makes sense that they'd introduce a change like this so I've chosen the 2 dragon lists which didn't go over the 35% limit too much via spamming characters. Armies with half or more than half composed of characters kinda sucked, looked weird and was reminiscent of 5th ed. Herohammer days.

    The post was edited 4 times, last by Eldren ().

  • and yet another update!

    Calcathin wrote:

    Hello my fellow Princes and Queens,

    As the moment of the truth approaches it is time to clear some of the clouds in the sky and give you some more clarity on what to expect:

    The "bad news":
    • Expect harsher limits in the monster mash lists: 1.2 allowed a direction on monster mash lists that it was not the desired path and this will be addressed in the upcoming update. Furthermore, certain monster mash lists where slightly over the desired power level, and you will find some limitations introduced in that respect
    • AWR, Honours, our on-foot characters and, for the most part of it, magic items are not being addressed as part of this updat
    The "good news":

    • Elder service is being fixed in a very interesting and elegant way
    • Some of the "unit option" we lost are coming back. And for the ones that don't come back, there is a very interesting cost-decrease applied to them
    • Many units will see a minor buff in the form of a slight cost adjustment (decrease), specially those who have to move in the battlefield on their own feet, and amongst those, there are a couple of very interesting surprises
    My recommendations?
    • Go with zero expectations on bullet point 2 of "bad news". Really. Otherwise it may obscure in your mind what otherwise is a positive update of our army
    • Monster-mash lovers: Digest the news, go and look at which were the rankings in the T9A masters of the lists that will remain valid, and then post in the forums. Highly recommended!
    • Read the whole lot of updates, digest them, form your own opinion, and share your thoughts in the forum!
    Raise thy Spears!
    Always a Highborn Elf, here or somewhere else
    The HbE Hotfix- My view
  • I'm curious about many things, overall this elegant solution to elder service.

    And i'm curious for my Grey friends, they will have a less crazy cost?

    A point on this "monster mash".

    A single tournament is not a full season, and things good in a team context are different from solo.
    In 1.1 many can field armies with 4/5 monsters (and this is a monster mash)
    In 1.2 all the races can field 3 monsters, HE only 2, and can use 3 with ryma honour but mounting the ryma prince on a horse (really genial).
    So i don't see this "monster mash", HE in 1.2 were last in monster mash possibility.
    Even an EoS can field more big guys.

    Simply HE maximize this section cause the remaining of the army were bad (same problem we had from long time, good external and bad internal balance).

    So another stone on the dragon's tomb is not a great thing, should be time to work seriously on internal balance (awsr, honours, foot units....) and not to still limit to nerf the tournament list of the moment.
    But we'll see, maybe this cost reduction is a start in the right direction (and goodbye to dragons in their tombs)
  • Version 1.3 is out: the-ninth-age.com/news/index.p…s/503-version-1-3-is-out/

    Highborn Elves
    Handwritten in beautiful cursive, the elegant scrolls sof the Highborn Elves politely informed the Rules Team (a dozen times or so) that a little more bow-power would be much appreciated in Core. While a seemly reasonable request, it proved to be a delicate issue, especially when combined with the general availability of flying monsters in the army. In the end though, after some spirited deliberation, it was agreed that a minor boost was not out of the question, but the Prince or Ryma should not be a part of this. Sadly, the brave spearmen of the HbE were robbed during the night and lost their heavy armor, and the peacekeeper elite shooters also dwindled slightly – especially the Queen’s Guard. To help alleviate these loses the Balancing Team reduced the overall cost of spears (who can now be fielded in HUGE buses), flame wardens, knights of Ryma (who keep devastating charge), and Grey Watchers. Smaller character mounts were made more attractive and spear of the blazing dawn suddenly looks very interesting. MSU Swordmasters almost became a diplomatic issue between the various teams involved, but for now they will be left alone in the interest of world peace.

    Drain magic, clarification
    Big character mounts counts towards character category
    Character category, 40%
    Prince of Ryma, allows more monsters and characters (+5% to both), but no peacekeepers (0%)
    Elder service, +10%(30%)
    Peace keepers, -5%(15%)
    Queen's guard moved to elder service, and max 20 models per army
    Sword Masters, -5pts, +3ppm, Sword sworn gains +1 to hit instead of ignoring distracting
    Daemon hunter helm can be taken on griffons
    Lion Guard: Skirmish option added 2ppm, base cost at -10 pts, -1 ppm for additional models
    Spear of Blazing Dawn: add “each hit inflicted against monsters and ridden monsters multiplies by 2”.
    Cloak of the Stars: change to “Spells targeting the bearer’s unit suffer -2 to their casting roll.” and price at -5p
    Lion Chariot Mount: reduce crew to (1)
    Lords of the Sea, Reaver Chariot Mount: -10p, Griffon Mount -20pts
    Mage, Reaver Chariot Mount: -10p
    High Prince, Giant Eagle Mount -20pts
    Commander, Giant Eagle Mount -10pts
    Grey Watchers base cost -10, -2 ppm for additional models
    Citizen Spears: base cost +50p, +5 models starting size, max 30 additional models.
    Flame Wardens: base cost drop at -10p and cost per additional model drop by -1pt
    Knights of ryma: additional models cost drop by -10ppm
    Fleet Officer, Sky sloop mount price -5p
  • Shadeseraph wrote:

    Version 1.3 is out: the-ninth-age.com/news/index.p…s/503-version-1-3-is-out/

    Highborn Elves
    Handwritten in beautiful cursive, the elegant scrolls sof the Highborn Elves politely informed the Rules Team (a dozen times or so) that a little more bow-power would be much appreciated in Core. While a seemly reasonable request, it proved to be a delicate issue, especially when combined with the general availability of flying monsters in the army. In the end though, after some spirited deliberation, it was agreed that a minor boost was not out of the question, but the Prince or Ryma should not be a part of this. Sadly, the brave spearmen of the HbE were robbed during the night and lost their heavy armor, and the peacekeeper elite shooters also dwindled slightly – especially the Queen’s Guard. To help alleviate these loses the Balancing Team reduced the overall cost of spears (who can now be fielded in HUGE buses), flame wardens, knights of Ryma (who keep devastating charge), and Grey Watchers. Smaller character mounts were made more attractive and spear of the blazing dawn suddenly looks very interesting. MSU Swordmasters almost became a diplomatic issue between the various teams involved, but for now they will be left alone in the interest of world peace.

    Drain magic, clarification
    Big character mounts counts towards character category - This needed to happen, makes it much easier to calculate army lists without too much cross over
    Character category, 40% - Happy as we are pricy as heck
    Prince of Ryma, allows more monsters and characters (+5% to both), but no peacekeepers (0%) - This is an interesting development.... where the RT that scared of our RBTs? Personally they hardly ever make thier points back for me at all, and in the 6 years that i have played them, 1 single bolt has hit and done damage. 1 solitary bolt.....
    Elder service, +10%(30%) - SUPER HAPPY WITH THIS
    Peace keepers, -5%(15%) - Less happy but was QG no longer counts here, this is ok
    Queen's guard moved to elder service, and max 20 models per army - I can deal with this
    Sword Masters, -5pts, +3ppm, Sword sworn gains +1 to hit instead of ignoring distracting - This one I dont understand, this just makes them even better in combat but doesnt help them at all in getting there. they are still squishy as hell and will get shot to crap...... Unless the RT is thinking of making a rule for elves as a whole to be much better at avoiding hits, these guys just wont be able to hold thier own compared to LG
    Daemon hunter helm can be taken on griffons - THANK YOU
    Lion Guard: Skirmish option added 2ppm, base cost at -10 pts, -1 ppm for additional models - Happy
    Spear of Blazing Dawn: add “each hit inflicted against monsters and ridden monsters multiplies by 2”. - Very interesting, our own version of the Beast Bane, but much better :)
    Cloak of the Stars: change to “Spells targeting the bearer’s unit suffer -2 to their casting roll.” and price at -5p - Hm, the -2 will be interesting, but not sure if it will be enough to use it
    Lion Chariot Mount: reduce crew to (1) - Can understand this, he is a beast when properly equiped
    Lords of the Sea, Reaver Chariot Mount: -10p, Griffon Mount -20pts - YAY griffin gettign some love
    Mage, Reaver Chariot Mount: -10p - Still wont use it as reaver chariots are crap
    High Prince, Giant Eagle Mount -20pts - a little meh tbh
    Commander, Giant Eagle Mount -10pts - as above
    Grey Watchers base cost -10, -2 ppm for additional models - nice
    Citizen Spears: base cost +50p, +5 models starting size, max 30 additional models. - WHERE is our heavy armour?
    Flame Wardens: base cost drop at -10p and cost per additional model drop by -1pt - Better
    Knights of ryma: additional models cost drop by -10ppm - Thank you very much
    Fleet Officer, Sky sloop mount price -5p - dont have one , but want one :)
    Thanks @Shadeseraph for the run down, interesting to see that if we want to take a monster mash list then we have absolutely no artillery..... I wonder if there are other armies that have to make this compromise.

    My thoughts on the above are in red but it looks like a step in the right direction