This is a legal reform?

Dan · Jan 3rd 2017, 5:28pm

End of combat saw this at On the Dwarf's turn. Halberdiers were primed for a juicy charge:

At the end of the combat the Dwarves reformed like this:

This appears to be a legal reform, which is idiotic, and frankly needs to be addressed. Simply require that a unit maintain its center during a combat reform as they do during a normal reform and we'd be good. It would also prevent a lot of the shuffling nonsense I've seen in just about every game I've played, which is not only abusable but breaks immersion.

Kpl.blutch · Jan 3rd 2017, 5:31pm

Are you not supposed to maximize, if you can ?

Christoffer

arwaker · Jan 3rd 2017, 5:33pm

I think the center of the unit must stay in the same position, therefore the reform is illegal imho.

Dan · Jan 3rd 2017, 5:34pm

He did. The Slayer thing had been in combat for a turn (maximize for being on his own, you'll note) before the white unit charged in.

Dan · Jan 3rd 2017, 5:34pm

arwaker wrote:

I think the center of the unit must stay in the same position, therefore the reform is illegal imho.

That's in the rules for a reform, but I didn't see it in the wording for a combat reform.

Nicklz · Jan 3rd 2017, 5:37pm

"Furthermore, at the end of all your Combat Reforms, the
exact same enemy models that were in base contact with opposing models before the Combat Reform must still be
in base contact after the Reform (but they may be Engaged with different models or even units)."

I'd say this prevents this shenanigans ...

Dan · Jan 3rd 2017, 5:40pm

Check again. The same number are engaged.

felehlz · Jan 3rd 2017, 5:46pm

Nicklz wrote:

"Furthermore, at the end of all your Combat Reforms, the
exact same enemy models that were in base contact with opposing models before the Combat Reform must still be
in base contact after the Reform (but they may be Engaged with different models or even units)."

I'd say this prevents this shenanigans ...

It refers about the models, not about the number of them, so your oponent did an illegal reform

Dan · Jan 3rd 2017, 5:47pm

The last sentence specifically says that they may be different models. It only stipulates that the same number be engaged.

Deino · Jan 3rd 2017, 5:48pm

The determination isn't in the number of models, but in the fact that the exact same models themselves must be in contact. Because the Vermin on the left side were engaged before the reform and weren't after the reform, that reform is illegal.

You may be engaged with different models, but that allows you to be engaged with more models than you were previously. You still must remain in contact with the same models you were before the reform. You may shift your position, but the models that were engaged before must stay engaged.

For reference:

Display Spoiler

Dan · Jan 3rd 2017, 5:49pm

wait I see it now. So the three Dwarves on the front left of the unit would have needed to stay engaged at the end of that combat.

Dan · Jan 3rd 2017, 5:50pm

@PrettyBoy, @SirMC2015

Nicklz · Jan 3rd 2017, 5:54pm

its more of a problem that the leftmost rats lost their dwarf opponent. It could have been replaced with the slayer but they can't be unengaged if previously engaged.

SirMC2015 · Jan 3rd 2017, 9:19pm

The same models were engage with the same combat. It is unfortunately a legal move. There are no character with skaven, just R&F.

Lagerlof · Jan 3rd 2017, 9:26pm

This is not a legal combat-reform.

"exact same enemy models that were in base contact with opposing models before the Combat Reform must still be
in base contact after the Reform"

The left most skink is not in base contact anymore.

It does not refer to the exact same AMOUNT of enemy models, it's the actual models that were in base contact.

If the Slayer had a 40mm base and was in base contact with all 5 models in the front rank, the silver unit would be allowed to pop over to the other side however.

Kpl.blutch · Jan 3rd 2017, 9:29pm

Lagerlof wrote:

If the Slayer had a 40mm base and was in base contact with all 5 models in the front rank, the silver unit would be allowed to pop over to the other side however.

How can a 40 mm base be in base contact with 5 20 mm bases ?

Christoffer

Calcathin · Jan 3rd 2017, 9:31pm

@Lagerlof would the reform have been legal if done as per the image, but the dwarves(incl slayer) would all be one position to the left?

So if the rats are 12345, the slayer would be facing 2, and the other dwarves 3,4,5

That would seem to be legal and still prevent the halberdiers charge, correct?

Lagerlof · Jan 3rd 2017, 9:36pm

Kpl.blutch wrote:

Lagerlof wrote:

If the Slayer had a 40mm base and was in base contact with all 5 models in the front rank, the silver unit would be allowed to pop over to the other side however.

How can a 40 mm base be in base contact with 5 20 mm bases ?
Christoffer

I can't count, you know what I mean.

Calcathin wrote:

@Lagerlof would the reform have been legal if done as per the image, but the dwarves(incl slayer) would all be one position to the left?

So if the rats are 12345, the slayer would be facing 2, and the other dwarves 3,4,5

That would seem to be legal and still prevent the halberdiers charge, correct?

Yes exactly.

sixfthoneybadger · Jan 3rd 2017, 9:54pm

That would be a sneaky way to engage a character on the opposite end. Say like a maglev that is squishy. I still thinks it's illegal and from a fairness standpoint I would add poor gamesmanship.

KeyserSoze · Jan 3rd 2017, 10:01pm

Kpl.blutch wrote:

Are you not supposed to maximize, if you can ?

Only when you complete a succesful charge move.

SirMC2015 wrote:

The same models were engage with the same combat. It is unfortunately a legal move. There are no character with skaven, just R&F.

"Exact same models" includes every single model seperately. The leftomost model, is the 1st rank/5th file for example, it's not just a R&F model.

This is a legal reform?

This is a legal reform?

Herminard wrote:

arwaker wrote:

Nicklz wrote:

Lagerlof wrote:

Herminard wrote:

Kpl.blutch wrote:

Lagerlof wrote:

Calcathin wrote:

Kpl.blutch wrote:

SirMC2015 wrote:

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