This is a legal reform?

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  • Dan wrote:

    "Furthermore, at the end of all your Combat Reforms, the exact same enemy models that were in base contact with opposing models before the Combat Reform must still bein base contact after the Reform..."

    Nicklz wrote:

    That exact only counts for enemy models.
    Okay, then turn it around. Before reform, the models on the left in Dans unit was in combat.

    After reform, they are out of combat, and the models on the right is engaged in combat.

    So according to wording, it is not the exact same models that is engaged in combat = illegal reform

    Christoffer
    Banned for posting memes - twice :D

    Herminard wrote:

    *nerfs are so 2016
  • Lagerlof wrote:

    Or wait I was right.. so tired lol.

    Slayer combat reforms and goes to the end of the unit, base contact with 2 guys only. The other dwarven unit reforms after and builds ranks while going 3 wide. Thus they should be in the center of the enemy unit and the other enemy unit cant charge them.

    SirMC2015 wrote:

    So I restate my question. Could I have moved the VS all the way to the right and then placed the DW over 4 wide? Same result of preventing a charge and all models are in combat. The issue is that the same models are not in combat with the VS.
    Heres the issue with these situations.

    The combat reform rules state "at the end of EACH combat reform, you must have at least as many of your models in base contact with an enemy as you had before the Reform".

    Since units do combat reforms individually, this means that you must do the reforms one by one, and after EACH reform check to see if the models in contact changes. So you cant shift over a single model to be in contact with less models, even if you plan to move other models into contact afterwards.

    (Im hoping that all made sense, its harder to do this from my phone)
    "We cant all just grease up and wrestle pigs for coin anymore" - Herminard
  • I think exactly this example should be presented in the rules book as an illegal combat reform. The rules are difficult and leave room to interpretation in this case.
    There are a lot of gaming examples with images in the book already, they help a lot. Make it one more and get rid of such situations that cause discussion.

    And I think it would help to clearly state the differences between reform and combat reform, like "unit center does not have to stay at the same position". And/or even find a new name for "combat reform", as the name implies a similarity of the rules to normal reform. Maybe call it "combat rearrangement" or something more english.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by arwaker ().

  • arwaker wrote:

    I think exactly this example should be presented in the rules book as an illegal combat reform. The rules are difficult and leave room to interpretation in this case.
    Nah, the rules are easy. BUT. It is hard to notice all the small changes happening between versions. Rules like this, which have been present from the very beginning, should all be learned, unless a person hasn't been playing the game.
  • youngseward wrote:

    Lagerlof wrote:

    Or wait I was right.. so tired lol.

    Slayer combat reforms and goes to the end of the unit, base contact with 2 guys only. The other dwarven unit reforms after and builds ranks while going 3 wide. Thus they should be in the center of the enemy unit and the other enemy unit cant charge them.

    SirMC2015 wrote:

    So I restate my question. Could I have moved the VS all the way to the right and then placed the DW over 4 wide? Same result of preventing a charge and all models are in combat. The issue is that the same models are not in combat with the VS.
    Heres the issue with these situations.
    The combat reform rules state "at the end of EACH combat reform, you must have at least as many of your models in base contact with an enemy as you had before the Reform".

    Since units do combat reforms individually, this means that you must do the reforms one by one, and after EACH reform check to see if the models in contact changes. So you cant shift over a single model to be in contact with less models, even if you plan to move other models into contact afterwards.

    (Im hoping that all made sense, its harder to do this from my phone)
    My example is 100% legit. There are more models in combat after the slayer reforms, not less. He's in base contact with 2 instead of 3, but that third model is also in base contact with the other unit so it's fine.
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  • IMO this should work its way into the rule book as an example of what not to do. The was originally done to me by someone who went to the ETC, and the player watching the game had it done to him during a UB tourney.

    The issue to me is the order of which things are stated. Restrictions should come first because otherwise people read the rules, see what they need to see and then move on. Of the restriction comes after the allowance it gets missed when time is a factor.
  • SirMC2015 wrote:

    IMO this should work its way into the rule book as an example of what not to do. The was originally done to me by someone who went to the ETC, and the player watching the game had it done to him during a UB tourney.

    The issue to me is the order of which things are stated. Restrictions should come first because otherwise people read the rules, see what they need to see and then move on. Of the restriction comes after the allowance it gets missed when time is a factor.
    Doesn't it feel wierd to have the restrictions first?

    And "not finishing reading the rules" is not an argument for playing the game wrong :P

    The things I saw people do at the ETC.. Never trust someone because they say it was allowed at the ETC.

    The best post combat pivot I saw was when a player picked up a dragon and a phoenix, and then he switched them and rotated them at the same time. Giving him a perfect flank charge on a big unit of clan rats.

    Hmm, I can't open the BRB right now for some reason. But is'nt the combat reform paragraph pretty short?

    Apparently it looks like it might need some updates, since alot of people here played it wrong.
    Rules Questions?
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    ETC 2016 - Referee

    Creator of Super biased EoS player.
  • Lagerlof wrote:

    youngseward wrote:

    Lagerlof wrote:

    Or wait I was right.. so tired lol.

    Slayer combat reforms and goes to the end of the unit, base contact with 2 guys only. The other dwarven unit reforms after and builds ranks while going 3 wide. Thus they should be in the center of the enemy unit and the other enemy unit cant charge them.

    SirMC2015 wrote:

    So I restate my question. Could I have moved the VS all the way to the right and then placed the DW over 4 wide? Same result of preventing a charge and all models are in combat. The issue is that the same models are not in combat with the VS.
    Heres the issue with these situations.The combat reform rules state "at the end of EACH combat reform, you must have at least as many of your models in base contact with an enemy as you had before the Reform".

    Since units do combat reforms individually, this means that you must do the reforms one by one, and after EACH reform check to see if the models in contact changes. So you cant shift over a single model to be in contact with less models, even if you plan to move other models into contact afterwards.

    (Im hoping that all made sense, its harder to do this from my phone)
    My example is 100% legit. There are more models in combat after the slayer reforms, not less. He's in base contact with 2 instead of 3, but that third model is also in base contact with the other unit so it's fine.
    Sorry I didnt want to have to reload the page with the picture, so I basically assumed from what you said that it was taking someome out. Mainly I just wanted to input the 'each reform happens separately' thing so I rushed in
    "We cant all just grease up and wrestle pigs for coin anymore" - Herminard
  • youngseward wrote:

    Lagerlof wrote:

    My example is 100% legit. There are more models in combat after the slayer reforms, not less. He's in base contact with 2 instead of 3, but that third model is also in base contact with the other unit so it's fine.
    Sorry I didnt want to have to reload the page with the picture, so I basically assumed from what you said that it was taking someome out. Mainly I just wanted to input the 'each reform happens separately' thing so I rushed in
    Yeah, I wanted to point that out as well but I kinda forgot :D
    Rules Questions?
    Moderator Requests

    ETC 2016 - Referee

    Creator of Super biased EoS player.