downloadable printable paper armies

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  • downloadable printable paper armies

    HI I hope this is in the correct section .
    Would it be possible to create downloadable pdfs with printable models in them ? I was talking to a friend the other day about trying out some war-gaming and he was asking if there were any printable paper models . I didn't know of any available for fantasy gaming , but there are a few available for 40k , which for him worked as we were looking at giving kill team a try .

    I got to thinking it would be nice if there were printable paper models available . for an example of what i am talking about take a look in the home brew section under Amazons , they have some Amazon archers available .
    I understand this would be alot of work , but it would offer serious benefits .
    primarily it would reduce the cost of entry into the hobby to $0 . this would be fantastic for getting new people into the hobby , and it would allow existing players to try out other armies they may not have the models for . On the same line it would allow existing players to try out units before committing $$ to them .

    I can see some people objecting , and not wanting to play against a paper army , but I think eventually people who play will want real models , and will make the shift to real models . The paper models would act as a bridge for them getting into the hobby . Personally i do not care I am just happy to have someone to play against . I have several friends that are interested but they are just not willing to invest the $$ upfront into the game .

    The idea is not with out precedent , there were official paper models for 40k back in the day , I have several old white dwarf mags that have paper punch out units in them .
    Pathfinder has started to release sets of paper models printed on thick card stock which contain all the monsters in their monster manuals .

    Has the idea been floated before ?
  • ikken wrote:

    Has the idea been floated before ?
    It has, and it has started as well thanks to @Duape. :)

    See the-ninth-age.com/gallery/inde…t/615-flat-paper-proxies/ !
    I’m no lord. I’ve more respect for myself than that. - Mat Cauthon

    Technical guy only.
    I don't make choices about the project or the rules, but I do like to state my opinion sometimes. That's only what it is though: an opinion from someone who doesn't make the choices. :)

    Feedback thread for the Magic cards.
    Pro cards thread: Professionally printed Magic cards
  • ikken wrote:




    I got to thinking it would be nice if there were printable paper models available . for an example of what i am talking about take a look in the home brew section under Amazons , they have some Amazon archers available .
    I understand this would be alot of work , but it would offer serious benefits .
    primarily it would reduce the cost of entry into the hobby to $0 . this would be fantastic for getting new people into the hobby , and it would allow existing players to try out other armies they may not have the models for . On the same line it would allow existing players to try out units before committing $$ to them .

    I can see some people objecting , and not wanting to play against a paper army , but I think eventually people who play will want real models , and will make the shift to real models . The paper models would act as a bridge for them getting into the hobby . Personally i do not care I am just happy to have someone to play against . I have several friends that are interested but they are just not willing to invest the $$ upfront into the game .

    The problem I see with this is not to play against paper models. Its to play ALWAYS against paper models. Human nature. Why should I buy models if I can play with paper models? If I am not a tournament player, just a casual player, it will be difficult to convince me to buy models if I can just print them out and play once or twice a month.

    I have seen this before and always ends with the new player refusing to buy models.
  • Rubencm81 wrote:

    ikken wrote:

    I got to thinking it would be nice if there were printable paper models available . for an example of what i am talking about take a look in the home brew section under Amazons , they have some Amazon archers available .
    I understand this would be alot of work , but it would offer serious benefits .
    primarily it would reduce the cost of entry into the hobby to $0 . this would be fantastic for getting new people into the hobby , and it would allow existing players to try out other armies they may not have the models for . On the same line it would allow existing players to try out units before committing $$ to them .

    I can see some people objecting , and not wanting to play against a paper army , but I think eventually people who play will want real models , and will make the shift to real models . The paper models would act as a bridge for them getting into the hobby . Personally i do not care I am just happy to have someone to play against . I have several friends that are interested but they are just not willing to invest the $$ upfront into the game .
    The problem I see with this is not to play against paper models. Its to play ALWAYS against paper models. Human nature. Why should I buy models if I can play with paper models? If I am not a tournament player, just a casual player, it will be difficult to convince me to buy models if I can just print them out and play once or twice a month.

    I have seen this before and always ends with the new player refusing to buy models.
    Cos they look terrible?
    Best in race WoDG - Ammerhammer
  • Rubencm81 wrote:

    The problem I see with this is not to play against paper models. Its to play ALWAYS against paper models. Human nature. Why should I buy models if I can play with paper models? If I am not a tournament player, just a casual player, it will be difficult to convince me to buy models if I can just print them out and play once or twice a month.

    I have seen this before and always ends with the new player refusing to buy models.
    What does it really matter? We are providing a game, we are not selling models.

    The hobby begets the hobby. Let people play with whatever they want. Typically, when they see a well crafted army, it makes them want to build one of their own.

    But we, as a game, should not be stating that there is a minimum barrier of entry beyond learning the rules and having fun.
  • Rubencm81 wrote:

    Tuna cans with bathroom toyS, remember?

    Next T9A Masters, ask them to play with almondS instead of models.

    If I had to start again with warhammer from zero and have the possibility of playing casual with printed models , I can tell you I would never buy a single model, despite of all the beautiful armies around me.
    *sigh* This again.

    Once more from the top: Tournaments can make whatever choices they want regarding what they do and do not allow for models at their events.

    We are not tournament organizers.

    We are making the game. The game plays just as well with a golden demon award winning army as it does with toys and paper cutouts. As such, we, as the makers and providers of a game that DOES NOT PRODUCE ANY MODELS, should not care what people use. It literally does not effect us.

    If someone wants to play with toys or paper cutouts, then I am happy that another person is playing the game. If you want to refuse to play against them, that is on you. But T9A as a game should not be the ones making that decision.
  • lawgnome wrote:

    Rubencm81 wrote:

    Tuna cans with bathroom toyS, remember?

    Next T9A Masters, ask them to play with almondS instead of models.

    If I had to start again with warhammer from zero and have the possibility of playing casual with printed models , I can tell you I would never buy a single model, despite of all the beautiful armies around me.
    *sigh* This again.
    Once more from the top: Tournaments can make whatever choices they want regarding what they do and do not allow for models at their events.

    We are not tournament organizers.

    We are making the game. The game plays just as well with a golden demon award winning army as it does with toys and paper cutouts. As such, we, as the makers and providers of a game that DOES NOT PRODUCE ANY MODELS, should not care what people use. It literally does not effect us.

    If someone wants to play with toys or paper cutouts, then I am happy that another person is playing the game. If you want to refuse to play against them, that is on you. But T9A as a game should not be the ones making that decision.
    No please, do not try to focus on a different point based on the excuse you do rules, I can roll my eyes too. It's like talking about fishing and you just point " hey I just make boats".

    My point is still valid. Give anyone the possibility of not purchasing a single model and playing with your rules and he will never do it. I'm not saying we should encourage people to buy models, I'm saying we should encourage players to use models.

    Imagine how many armies you can print with 25€, more or less the price a single box has. The best way to quit someone from the project is to refuse to play with him. So now you have 2 choices : you refuse to play with someone who always plays with papers and at the end he will quit because he will not play with models or you keep playing against papers and he will never buy models because he can play with papers.
  • Rubencm81 wrote:

    My point is still valid. Give anyone the possibility of not purchasing a single model and playing with your rules and he will never do it.
    I highly doubt that.
    The whole hobby is build around the desire to paint and play with toy soldiers. I strongly believe that we can put 'The game should only be played with our official paper cut-outs. But if you really want to use models, we will tolerate that.' in the rule book and virtually nothing would change.
  • Rubencm81 wrote:

    My point is still valid. Give anyone the possibility of not purchasing a single model and playing with your rules and he will never do it.
    What do you mean give the possibility? Rules are free, so anyone can do whatever they want with, nobody here has any power to prevent it nor anyone wishes to.
    How do you forbid using paper models? You will only allow to download the rules if a person will provide a proof of owning miniatures? I must admit I'm little lost here.
  • Rubencm81 wrote:

    My point is still valid. Give anyone the possibility of not purchasing a single model and playing with your rules and he will never do it. I'm not saying we should encourage people to buy models, I'm saying we should encourage players to use models.

    Imagine how many armies you can print with 25€, more or less the price a single box has. The best way to quit someone from the project is to refuse to play with him. So now you have 2 choices : you refuse to play with someone who always plays with papers and at the end he will quit because he will not play with models or you keep playing against papers and he will never buy models because he can play with papers.
    Your point is not valid.

    My SA army was originally made out of small dinosaur toys purchased from Amazon for $10. I glued them all onto bases, and played with them for years.

    And yet, despite having access to the cheapest of cheap armies, I still found myself wanting to buy an ID army. Sure, I got most of the parts relatively cheaply (thank you Mantic), but I still wound up buying models.

    And do you know why?

    Because the hobby is fun.

    Because the game is fun.

    I make my army because I enjoy expressing my artistic impulses and talents.

    I play the game because it is a fun way to spend a few hours with my friends.

    If someone makes their army super cheap (or for the cost of a few print outs), then I am happy for them. A huge part of this game is the social interaction with another player. Why on earth would we want to say ANYWHERE that someone was not allowed to play our game until they had put X amount of time and X amount of money into building an army?

    This idea is a hold-over from WHFB. GW had a vested interest in getting you to buy their models, and they set up tournaments to promote that by saying that all of your models must be at least 80% GW models.

    We are not GW. We are making a game, which is available to everyone for free, and which lets you use any models you want. The game does not care. The game is not effected by what is on the board. Models, toys, empty bases with a scrap of paper to say what the unit is, whatever. The game is our only product.


    As for your example: I agree. The best way to get someone to quit is to not play with them. Maybe they are just starting out and do not want to drop $200 and a week of their potentially limited free time (I get maybe 3 hours of free time a week due to toddler) just to see if they like the game. And here you are, saying that you will not play with them because you don't want them to play the game without having the exact models to represent what toy soldiers they are playing with. Yeah, I imagine I would quit, too.

    Speaking from personal experience: I first started playing WHFB back in 2012. I had just gotten married, my wife was unemployed, and I had a mountain of student debt. I had met a few guys through an old friend of mine who played, and they invited me along to play with them. I watched a game or two to pick up the rules, I played a game using their models, and I found that I enjoyed the game quite a bit. I did a bunch of research to try to find the cheapest way of getting an army. I wound up using paper cutouts to represent the rest of the army as I tried to figure out what units I liked and what would be worth buying. After a while, I bought an ogre battalion box as a starter.

    I was dirt poor. I could not afford to just buy models out to try them. Everyone still played with me, and eventually I was able to get enough stuff to field a full army. If any of them had told me that they wouldn't play with me until I had a full army, I would have stopped right there, as that is not a community that I want to be a part of. Instead, I have three unique armies that I am very proud of.
  • lawgnome wrote:

    Rubencm81 wrote:

    My point is still valid. Give anyone the possibility of not purchasing a single model and playing with your rules and he will never do it. I'm not saying we should encourage people to buy models, I'm saying we should encourage players to use models.

    Imagine how many armies you can print with 25€, more or less the price a single box has. The best way to quit someone from the project is to refuse to play with him. So now you have 2 choices : you refuse to play with someone who always plays with papers and at the end he will quit because he will not play with models or you keep playing against papers and he will never buy models because he can play with papers.
    Your point is not valid.

    Of course it is. I have seen this twice this week. In a shop, papelhammer. The guy has been playing that for about 3 months. And his reply is: Why should I invest money here instead of a PS4 game or some drinks at the pub? This is almost free!


    That is my point.





    My SA army was originally made out of small dinosaur toys purchased from Amazon for $10. I glued them all onto bases, and played with them for years.


    Quote myself: " I'm not saying we should encourage people to buy models, I'm saying we should encourage players to use models." You did buying dinos.

    And yet, despite having access to the cheapest of cheap armies, I still found myself wanting to buy an ID army. Sure, I got most of the parts relatively cheaply (thank you Mantic), but I still wound up buying models.

    And do you know why?

    Because the hobby is fun.

    Because the game is fun.

    I make my army because I enjoy expressing my artistic impulses and talents.

    I play the game because it is a fun way to spend a few hours with my friends.

    If someone makes their army super cheap (or for the cost of a few print outs), then I am happy for them. A huge part of this game is the social interaction with another player. Why on earth would we want to say ANYWHERE that someone was not allowed to play our game until they had put X amount of time and X amount of money into building an army?



    This idea is a hold-over from WHFB. GW had a vested interest in getting you to buy their models, and they set up tournaments to promote that by saying that all of your models must be at least 80% GW models.

    We are not GW. We are making a game, which is available to everyone for free, and which lets you use any models you want.


    Where are the models in the papelhammer? A piece of paper is not a model. Sorry, you can reduce this into the most basic definition and still, it is not a model.


    The game does not care. The game is not effected by what is on the board. Models, toys, empty bases with a scrap of paper to say what the unit is, whatever. The game is our only product.


    As for your example: I agree. The best way to get someone to quit is to not play with them. Maybe they are just starting out and do not want to drop $200 and a week of their potentially limited free time (I get maybe 3 hours of free time a week due to toddler) just to see if they like the game. And here you are, saying that you will not play with them because you don't want them to play the game without having the exact models to represent what toy soldiers they are playing with. Yeah, I imagine I would quit, too.

    Speaking from personal experience: I first started playing WHFB back in 2012. I had just gotten married, my wife was unemployed, and I had a mountain of student debt. I had met a few guys through an old friend of mine who played, and they invited me along to play with them. I watched a game or two to pick up the rules, I played a game using their models, and I found that I enjoyed the game quite a bit. I did a bunch of research to try to find the cheapest way of getting an army. I wound up using paper cutouts to represent the rest of the army as I tried to figure out what units I liked and what would be worth buying. After a while, I bought an ogre battalion box as a starter.

    I was dirt poor. I could not afford to just buy models out to try them. Everyone still played with me, and eventually I was able to get enough stuff to field a full army. If any of them had told me that they wouldn't play with me until I had a full army, I would have stopped right there, as that is not a community that I want to be a part of. Instead, I have three unique armies that I am very proud of.
  • Rubencm81 wrote:

    The problem I see with this is not to play against paper models. Its to play ALWAYS against paper models. Human nature. Why should I buy models if I can play with paper models? If I am not a tournament player, just a casual player, it will be difficult to convince me to buy models if I can just print them out and play once or twice a month.

    I have seen this before and always ends with the new player refusing to buy models.
    I think you guys underestimate the pull of "plastic crack". Everyone here knows that it only takes one miniature to get started and it's incredibly difficult to stop after that.

    I personally don't see the issue with new players playing with paper proxies - I've used the method myself to see if I want to get into a new army and to playtest my homebrew army.

    Having a library of printable proxies available for new players can only be a good thing, enabling people to play without having the massive financial barrier to entry. Not everyone has, or wants to drop several hundred pounds and the many hours painting and assembling that it takes to get into the game.

    Also, WFB used to come with paper models, right from 2nd edition. Even 4th still came with a cardboard griffin and war machines:





    Paper proxies are like a "gateway drug" onto the harder stuff.
    _____________________________________________________________________
    "You see only what the Tuatha De' allow you to see" - Queen Maeb
    Albiann - The Misted Isles, Homebrew Celtic Faction for T9A
    Full Army Book
  • What is a 'model'?

    1. Graphical, mathematical (symbolic), physical, or verbal representation or simplified version of a concept, phenomenon, relationship, structure, system, or an aspect of the real world.

    Read more: businessdictionary.com/definition/model.html

    (First google result I found.)

    I would argue that a paper cut-out is a physical representation of an aspect of the 'real world'. The 'real world' is the 'T9A world', though. :D
  • Business dictionary? Really?

    Oxford:
    model
    NOUN
    • 1A three-dimensional representation of a person or thing or of a proposed structure, typically on a smaller scale than the original:‘a model of St Paul's Cathedral’[as modifier] ‘a model aeroplane’More example sentencesSynonyms
      1. 1.1 (in sculpture) a figure or object made in clay or wax, to be reproduced in another more durable material:‘wax models were used by sculptors in the lost wax method of bronze casting’
      Dictionary.com:


    • noun
      1.a standard or example for imitation or comparison.
      2.a representation, generally in miniature, to show the construction orappearance of something.
      3.an image in clay, wax, or the like, to be reproduced in more durablematerial.
      4.a person or thing that serves as a subject for an artist, sculptor, writer,etc.










    Merrian-webster:


    a usually miniature representation of something <a plastic model of the human heart>; also : a pattern of something to be made
  • Rubencm81 wrote:

    The problem I see with this is not to play against paper models. Its to play ALWAYS against paper models. Human nature. Why should I buy models if I can play with paper models? If I am not a tournament player, just a casual player, it will be difficult to convince me to buy models if I can just print them out and play once or twice a month.

    I have seen this before and always ends with the new player refusing to buy models.

    Rubencm81 wrote:

    My point is still valid. Give anyone the possibility of not purchasing a single model and playing with your rules and he will never do it. I'm not saying we should encourage people to buy models, I'm saying we should encourage players to use models.
    Is the original point valid? In the sense that there is a risk that some (many?) players might prefer to use paper models over plastic ones, then perhaps.

    Personally I have my doubts. Anyone who plays the Game right now is at least somewhat engaged in the Hobby as well. The Hobby focuses exclusively on the spectacle of the affair. If paper models are a gateway to getting people into the Hobby (much in the same way as papercraft terrain is a gateway to more elaborate projects), then we can rightly expect growing hobby proficiency to become a motivator at some point. However if paper models end up becoming a gateway to the Game without triggering any influence of the Hobby, then I could see it coming to pass.

    Where your original point falls down is in assuming that this is a bad thing. When we're talking about gateways, we're talking about attracting new players. Note: players, not hobbyists. T9A's success as a product hinges entirely on the number of people who play it, not the number of people who are assembling models for it. Hobbyists (and only good hobbyists) are useful as a means of promoting the game, but are otherwise completely inconsequential. Maybe that's why nobody is arguing that I shouldn't be allowed to play with my army that is made up of suitable models which are assembled and painted badly.

    The original point then proceeds to undercut its own argument by comparing suitably-themed fantasy art on paper with unpainted tuna cans and almonds. Surely paper models are preferable, even in a tournament settings, to household items?