Pinned Full Magic Phase Proposals​: which ones are your preferred ones?

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    • Full Magic Phase Proposals​: which ones are your preferred ones?

      86 proposals were made. 8o
      That is a lot more than what the rule team can investigate reasonably alone. :panic:

      If you wish to help them, you can!
      Here is what could be useful:
      1. Read all the proposals
      2. Rank your top 5 or top 10.
      3. Post hereafter your list of top 5 or top 10.
      4. You may comment about what you like here or there, but please, please, keep it short!
      Thank you! :largegrin:

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • Frederick wrote:

      it was a very serious question since i feel like it could help to set a deadline for the repsonsible team :). Currently it feels like nobody has a plan how much time this will consume ;)
      Ok so serious though. To read and acertain proposals like this I would say you would have to give minimu of one day per proposal to read through it and have a little time to think about it. Bearing few extra days for being sics/ having a lot of work/family matters/whatever. I would say that 3 months are absolute minimum just to choose youre prefered proposals with adequate amount of thought.

      Best regards
      Sklodo
      Best regards
      Sklodo

      Retireing for unspecyfied period of time. Sometime I hate the world.
    • that´s how i feel as well. some proposals are rather short, but since it´s often about details and getting into the proposed mechanics as a whole, i have issues with making sure every proposal gets the attention it deserves when there is on 3 weeks to read and work through it.
      WTC OPEN 2019 - 26.-28.04.2018 in Herford worldteamchampionships.com - an official T9A event
    • Hey, the intent is not to have all proposals "tested" but only "read".
      I see not that taking more than half hour for most proposals filled with "as 1.3", and one hour for the most complex ones.
      Add a couple more hours for sorting them and writing a 10 lines wrap-up, total should not exceed 50 hours.
      Two hours per day, more on week-ends, why should this take more than a month?


      Also, to go faster, one may specialize in evaluating such or such aspect only, not the comprehensive proposal, as anyway the system adopted will very likely be hybrid.

      E.g. if someone specializes in reading only the fluff, that should be done in 2 weeks.
      If someone specializes in examining only the casting systems different from 1.3, the vast majority of the proposals are out.
      If someone only examines what wizard levels becomes, there are basically less than 10 variants.
      If someone only evaluates the miscasts, it should be quick as well.

      If you do such an evaluation, please label your reply with such a title as:
      My top 7 evaluations of Veil theories
      My top 5 evaluations of miscast proposals.

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • Calisson wrote:

      Hey, the intent is not to have all proposals "tested" but only "read".
      I see not that taking more than half hour for most proposals filled with "as 1.3", and one hour for the most complex ones.
      Add a couple more hours for sorting them and writing a 10 lines wrap-up, total should not exceed 50 hours.
      Two hours per day, more on week-ends, why should this take more than a month?


      Also, to go faster, one may specialize in evaluating such or such aspect only, not the comprehensive proposal, as anyway the system adopted will very likely be hybrid.

      E.g. if someone specializes in reading only the fluff, that should be done in 2 weeks.
      If someone specializes in examining only the casting systems different from 1.3, the vast majority of the proposals are out.
      If someone only examines what wizard levels becomes, there are basically less than 10 variants.
      If someone only evaluates the miscasts, it should be quick as well.

      If you do such an evaluation, please label your reply with such a title as:
      My top 7 evaluations of Veil theories

      My top 5 evaluations of miscast proposals.
      i am just slower and havelestime. Also to point my favourites I would like to ponder on every proposal for awhile :)

      Bstregards :).
      Best regards
      Sklodo

      Retireing for unspecyfied period of time. Sometime I hate the world.
    • Oh geez, Ive only gone through the ones with lots of likes...so I cant comment at all yet. This will take some time! Most though, they dont have much to them I feel. Just minor changes here and there.

      Maybe you guys should start with the ones with lots of likes! Though to be fair, the earlier the proposal the more likely it is to have likes.

      Conceptual Design Team

    • Pellegrim wrote:

      I dont see the point in Top-5-ing everything, as it would require scanning all 86 proposals, which is inhuman.

      Might I suggest to follow my earlier proposal of making a smaller selection based on design criteria? Hence start shifting proposals?
      sorry to say but going through 86 proposals is inhuma is hard , cause that excatly the work thr staff is doing.

      Maybe they splitt like @Calisson said but they still have to read all 84. But we will take much more time i think atm.

      Head of Playtesting

      Lord of Chaos , Duke of Equitaine , Cuatl of the Golden City , Herold of the Empire , Summoner of Pestilence , Lord of the Sea WotdG,KoE,SA,EoS, and DL and new HE but with Dragon Empire Ordo Sanctae Mariae Teutonicorum
    • I will start going through all of them today to have a clustering ans evaluation:
      - same, similar or different to current one
      - simpler or more complex
      - fixed or random
      ....
      - my personal opinion if worse or better
      - and this for the total proposal as a whole and for the sub-points

      And all these criterias scaled from e.g. -3 to +3

      Quick Starter Team

      Playtester


    • HJFudge wrote:

      Oh geez, Ive only gone through the ones with lots of likes...so I cant comment at all yet. This will take some time! Most though, they dont have much to them I feel. Just minor changes here and there.

      Maybe you guys should start with the ones with lots of likes! Though to be fair, the earlier the proposal the more likely it is to have likes.
      Unfortunately, I feel this doesnt make sense at all. And you gave the answer in the your last sentence.
      Even I stopped reading proposals after #50 or so.
      And I dont think the intention was to give likes which I didn't. And with most proposals being much longer explained as was requested it's obviously overwhelming for most people to have followed to read proposals as soon as the threads were created.

      Quick Starter Team

      Playtester


    • Calisson wrote:

      86 proposals were made. 8o
      That is a lot more than what the rule team can investigate reasonably alone. :panic:

      If you wish to help them, you can!
      Here is what could be useful:
      1. Read all the proposals
      2. Rank your top 5 or top 10.
      3. Post hereafter your list of top 5 or top 10.
      4. You may comment about what you like here or there, but please, please, keep it short!
      Thank you! :largegrin:
      In the Dashboard summary you posted this:
      "What could be anticipated is that two or three proposals could be merged into a backbone."

      I just wanted to comment about this approach to designing the rules as I do not agree with it.

      The point of having a rules team is that the team is responsible for writing the rules. From the sounds of it, it seems like you guys are just trying to take a whole rules proposal and copy paste it.

      Many of the magic proposals were submitted in a way that was very open to allow you guys to pick the best suggested individual rules and then combine them. THIS IS WHAT A GAME DESIGNER DOES.
      Trying to mash them down into top 5 and then just pick one of those wholesale is an odd way to do this - as like I said, many of the proposals are very open ended. Even in my own proposal I stated "you can do it many of these several ways".

      So I will read the proposals and just cherry pick the top rules. I'll cite which proposal I got it from of course.
      Just let me know if this will be of help or not. If not then I'll go spend my time on other T9A projects.
    • Peacemaker wrote:

      Calisson wrote:

      86 proposals were made. 8o
      That is a lot more than what the rule team can investigate reasonably alone. :panic:

      If you wish to help them, you can!
      Here is what could be useful:
      1. Read all the proposals
      2. Rank your top 5 or top 10.
      3. Post hereafter your list of top 5 or top 10.
      4. You may comment about what you like here or there, but please, please, keep it short!
      Thank you! :largegrin:
      In the Dashboard summary you posted this: "What could be anticipated is that two or three proposals could be merged into a backbone."

      I just wanted to comment about this approach to designing the rules as I do not agree with it.

      The point of having a rules team is that the team is responsible for writing the rules. From the sounds of it, it seems like you guys are just trying to take a whole rules proposal and copy paste it.

      Many of the magic proposals were submitted in a way that was very open to allow you guys to pick the best suggested individual rules and then combine them. THIS IS WHAT A GAME DESIGNER DOES.
      Trying to mash them down into top 5 and then just pick one of those wholesale is an odd way to do this - as like I said, many of the proposals are very open ended. Even in my own proposal I stated "you can do it many of these several ways".

      So I will read the proposals and just cherry pick the top rules. I'll cite which proposal I got it from of course.
      Just let me know if this will be of help or not. If not then I'll go spend my time on other T9A projects.
      See and I pretty much disagree with the method Peacemaker mentioned.

      Sure, grab ideas from all suggestions, by all means. But trying to piece together different ideas from different systems...if the systems are truly different...is just going to create a stitched together thing that doesnt flow well and isnt consistent.

      Rules need to be designed as a whole...realizing that each part affects the rest. If someone has a great idea for magic dice generation, it may make the other 'great idea' for how miscasts work totally unbalanced or out of place. A system needs to be designed as a system! Not as a piecemeal thing.

      That being said, it is good to steal...er...borrow the best ideas from various places...but then you need to take those ideas and add in NEW ideas, likely change those original ideas around, and make them fit a new system!

      With so many people creating systems from scratch, some really interesting ones...it is probably best to choose the few best, figure out which one you wanna go with, then tweak as needed.

      Conceptual Design Team

    • I know the workload is huge, but if people with the various rules team tags can't do the 'cherry picking' of brainstorm rules to make a decent ruleset then maybe some tags need to be shuffled around?
      I hope this doesn't sound rude. I know its a ton of volunteer work, and that's the reason I'm even critiquing - to try and help.

      Frederick wrote:

      What's your proposal for a deadline? :)
      I think the best route for volunteer deadlines is to keep it loose.
      A good guideline is that you take the time it would take to complete a deadline for a paid worker, and then double or even triple that if its for volunteer.

      So middle of April, end of April?

      I'm gonna put in a couple hours tonight reading through the proposals. But the rest of my weekend is kinda booked up.
    • HJFudge wrote:


      Sure, grab ideas from all suggestions, by all means. But trying to piece together different ideas from different systems...if the systems are truly different...is just going to create a stitched together thing that doesnt flow well and isnt consistent.

      Rules need to be designed as a whole...realizing that each part affects the rest. If someone has a great idea for magic dice generation, it may make the other 'great idea' for how miscasts work totally unbalanced or out of place. A system needs to be designed as a system! Not as a piecemeal thing.

      That being said, it is good to steal...er...borrow the best ideas from various places...but then you need to take those ideas and add in NEW ideas, likely change those original ideas around, and make them fit a new system!

      With so many people creating systems from scratch, some really interesting ones...it is probably best to choose the few best, figure out which one you wanna go with, then tweak as needed.
      See if you are in charge of the actual game design balance part then what you do is copy paste the concept, and then tweak it for the balance.

      Some of the areas in the magic proposal are not connected enough that they need to be kept connected in the same complete proposal.
      For example: one suggestion for magic dice generation could have nothing to do with miscasts. But some suggestions might have you take power dice away when you get a miscast. ....so those proposals would have to be kept as one.

      There was a suggestion I read that the guy said to have different types of wizards. Sorcery, Mage, Enchanter, etc... And they have different effects. That was pretty cool and had a few comments of people liking it.
      The rest of his proposal had some good stuff, but some of it was open.


      And another point. Is that by getting generic people from the community to spend time writing out full fledged balanced rule set for the main team to copy paste - leads to alot of wasted time.
      A submission could go entirely in the wrong direction.

      The current magic proposal should actually be classified as the brainstorm stage. This is for general forum people
      Next stage is the combine stage, where you get the direction of the concepts.
      This is for rules people to consolidate because they know the actual direction the game needs to go based on internal discussions. This step can be split into 2 rounds with some forum feedback followed by further refinement if needed.
      Then next stage is the final tweak to balance. Pretty much just the head rules guys who should have a full knowledge of all books and balance issues. And if there is any glaring issues then you'll quickly find out 6 hours after release.