Community Ideas - What do we want O&G Characters to be?

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  • Community Ideas - What do we want O&G Characters to be?

    Greetings Fellow Greenies!

    As the general 1.3 Feedback thread has grown cumbersome, it's been recommended that we start a thread for each of the various topics that keep coming up. To prevent overload, instead of doing them all at once I'll be putting one up every few days or so. The Community Magic Thread is a good model to use, and if you saw my last post in there you'll see that this kind of feedback is taken seriously.

    A few guidelines:
    1. Keep your posts short and sweet. No one likes to read a wall of text, and your points will got lost. Also, please try not to fill the thread will multiple posts of your ideas. We want input from as many players as possible.
    2. Focus on your own ideas, keep feedback on others to a minimum, preferably none at all. The ACS will combine and collate the ideas and present them for feedback later.
    3. Try to stay away from getting too detailed in terms of stats. The game is changing with new books and the 2.0 rules coming. Any specific stat ideas may not be relevant later. For example: "Iron Orc Lords should have the highest Toughness of all the non-monstrous units" is better than "give IO Lords T6!"
    4. Stay on topic. Other threads will appear for other topics. If you have a desire for a certain thread feel free to PM me or @GrayGork or @Uruk-Flink.
    Thanks in advance for your help. We all want to make O&G the best they can be.

    O&G Community Support

    "I see you are a man who likes to talk. That is good, for I am a man who likes talking to a man who likes to talk." - Caspar Gutman
  • My concern is Orc lords as they don't seem to match up with other lord level characters. They are valuable to our army for their leadership and thus are a bigger loss then say a WDG army losing their combat general.

    I want our Orc Generals to be big and mean, half between a human and a Ogre. Maybe not fast, maybe not well armoured but he will beat you to death with his severed arm. I think a additional wound or two would definitely give us the image of more fortitude. Additionally I imagine them as hulking brutes, so some size effect would be nice like MI have. Immunity to stomp and a stomp(kick) attack would be nice.
  • Beebread's O&G Character Concept Ideas! This is just a start, and not a template for others to follow. I purposely stayed a way from numbers and racial differences. To me, once we get the vision down, we can start of the details.

    Orc Characters:

    1. Orc leaders somehow rise to the top of a very nasty heap. They must be tough, and be able to at least outfight any other orc.
    2. Orcs need leaders or things get very bad very fast. As much as they need to get in and fight, their main job is keeping their fractious troops in line and focused on the job. To do that job, they need to stay alive, while other orcs die all around them.
    3. Orc shamans make their way through the use of their...we'll call them brains for lack of a better term. As such, they aren't quite as tough, and not quite as strong, but they still can lead because they intimidate other orcs with those "brains" of theirs.
    In sum, Orc lords and heroes need to be tough and survivable, effect leaders, and good fighters. They need to be all three at the same time, which means none of them are the very best. Tools that emphasize one should de-emphasize the others. Orc Shamans are not quite the physical specimens, but with their magic and "brains" they can still be effective leaders.

    Goblin Characters:

    1. Goblins are just as much trouble as orcs in their own way. You can keep them in line by slapping them on the skull, but impressing them with being the nastiest and sneakiest works too.
    2. Keeping the bosses alive is even more important for goblins as it is for orcs. Once orcs get started on something they tend to keep going until it gets through their heads that no one is yelling at them anymore. Goblins, being a little sharper, will slink away as soon as they think can get away with it.
    3. Goblin shamans are probably the brightest members of the greenhide clans. A little too bright... they don't make effective leaders because they just aren't to be trusted.
    So, Goblin Lords and Heroes are not so strong and tough, but they are great at the things goblins are good at. They also manage to get the best out of their gang, but without them things go bad very quickly. Goblin Shaman spend a lot of time studying their magic. Rumor has it, they can even read? No way! Because of that they aren't great leaders, but they can be very powerful wizards.

    O&G Community Support

    "I see you are a man who likes to talk. That is good, for I am a man who likes talking to a man who likes to talk." - Caspar Gutman
  • I would like to see some more support abilities from our characters, and the ability to use perhaps less fighty but no less valid goblin kings as general. Perhaps through expanding the Waaargh! system.
    I see our characters as inspiring figures able to unit entire waaarghs! under a single banner, and always with Da Best Plan. Be it bold and straightforward or treacherous and sneaky.
  • I think orcs should be the toughest things around for its size, and able to bash a head in when the greenskins get out of line. also always looking to take on whatever would oppose its dominance as the true Alpha. (possible challenge synergy with other lords) I would love to see synergy ideas either in army creation or Waaargh causing additional buffs to units.

    the goblins should be sneaky and able to buff units with such sneaky plans when joined. I do not see goblins able to do much in a fight out right but use their gnashers and other means to cause damage.

    O&G Community Supportt

  • the biggest historical gaming convention for Greenskins is the concept of "the bubble". The army is towards the lower end of leadership, and has troops that are likely to panic or become stupid (trolls) unless they stick tight to the general's area of influence.

    This is fine, to some extent, and characterful as it creates a huge wall of green flesh concentrated on the field.

    To some extent this is mitigated by some troop choices like iron orcs who have immune to psych (so wont panic) I hesitate to add savage orcs in here because while they are also immune to psych because of frenzy ability they very much do need the generals leadership to operate correctly and not fail frenzy checks when you dont want them to. Now we could and historically have purchased heroes to babysit units (i had a goblin hero on wolf for some time in my unit of trolls to help them if they lost coherency with the general) but this is an expensive practise and takes points from where we should be placing them, overwhelming the enemy with the vast green horde. Insignificant goblins not causing tests in Orcs also helps here to some small extent.

    I dont have an exact solution and am not sure if it is a problem (it always felt very constraining to me, and very liberating when playing the dwarfs to have independant operators) but I do imagine a mighty green skin army laid out across the width of the table and simply swamping the enemy and not having to unduly worry about every single panic test. To that end could there possibly be an ability (with an appropriate points value) which allowed 1, or maybe even 2 small bubbles of inspiring presence for what i will call:

    Tribal Captain. These tough, wily greenskins are the right hand men of the Warboss, they can exert control in a smaller zone (6 inch inspiring presence centred on them), if the general is also close enough his inspiring presence takes precedence (he shouts louder and is a little bit smarter, naturally - not much, just a little).

    As per the parameters, i make no claim on the power level of this, it may indeed be too powerful, i simply imagine the pre battle conversation between the warboss and his conclave of hardened, scarred captains.

    "Grishnak, you lead da left flank, take da trolls into 'em when i give da signal"

    "Ok Boss"

    "Grotbogey, lissen up, you lead da right flank, keep dose warmachines in order, and da arrer boys firin', if any one legs it! Stick em in da back wiv your sword!"
  • tInYMeMBeR wrote:

    I also like the idea of race specific WAAARGHs.
    Iron orc warboss Waaagh:

    "DIS IS SPARTA!" The warboss raises his mighty oversized, iron shod boot and immediately kicks the nearest enemy character into a well, where they suffer d3+1 wounds with AP6. If the enemy character is an infernal dwarf from 9th age's version of Persia he suffers double wounds.

    8o 8o 8o
  • Last one from me for a while in this thread, and I will let others contribute.

    I think it is important to be aware when discussing an army's characters you should at least recognise it is also the army book's magic items which contribute to their effect on the field.

    A dwarf king or runesmith is nothing without his runes. The sylvan elves control of the forest and battlefield comes from their magic items.

    The greenskin book has some good items in there, but a lot of rarely if ever used stuff that could need an overhaul that directly links to this topic, but perhaps it makes the topic too wide in parameter? which is a valid concern.
  • I'm going to remain vague as there's people better at suggesting concrete rule mechanics however this is how I ('d like to) see OnG command:

    Orc chars
    • They climbed the latter in a dynamical hierarchical society based on fighting prowess = they should be powerhouses in strength, attacks and resilience/toughness. Warboss generals and their battle standard bearers shouldn't bunker down
    • However fitting a tribal system which grants army bonuses but also implements restrictions on unit limits/availability is, I believe it would create more balance problems than it adds flavorful choice
    • Instead; Orc bosses are typically adorned with skulls, gruesome trinkets and other charms as status symbols of fights/battles/wars won, I would like to see some kind of trophy system implemented granting specific perks (be it personal or army support)
    • Weakness is lethal in orc society, so Orc shamans should also be decent in combat. Instead of regular weapon attacks (S/WS) I think it would be cool to let them have some spell they can only use in CC instead. The best ones should be able to lead an army
    Goblin chars
    • They are sneaky, cunning and conniving. Some even so much so they manage to grow their tribe to proportions that attracts orc followers instead of the other way around, preemptively making sure the biggest and/or smartest of them mysteriously disappear. Goblin chars should definitely be able to lead orc armies (and vice versa)
    • Goblin bosses excel in sneaky tactics, they/the general-bsb? should provide their unit with an additional unique feature, e.g. depending on their race, be it flank/rear attack bonuses, poison or... Not army wide, as to incentivize them not bunkering down, but you can forego that.
    • Little comments about goblin shamans, but I feel they should offer something distinct from orc shamans, and their unique option should be fleshed out (e.g. shrooms; a lot of missed opportunity to make these useful and flavorful)
    ✧✧✧ Make Greenskins great again ✧✧✧
  • Orc warbosses should be powerful & essential tools for the Orc general. They should be able to geared to be incredibly tough & tanky, or full-on glass cannon, or a little of both (with access to enough magic items to make this happen). As I see it, a large horde army such as our's needs such characters to wield the o&g army into an terrible battlefield foe. Obviously, the army must have some weaknesses, but the characters are not it. Please no weak sauce here.
  • Great ideas! Keep them coming! I'll edit the first post as we go along to keep track of ideas. Don't worry about duplicating, think of it as supporting attacks. (Which, we need more of.)

    O&G Community Support

    "I see you are a man who likes to talk. That is good, for I am a man who likes talking to a man who likes to talk." - Caspar Gutman
  • I would like an extra kick for paying for that orc character/race. Similar to the race abilities, being this race gives you an additional boon/ability. Yes I understand there is mount options/frenzy/ITP/weapon master etc already in place, but like army wide buffs.

    Common Orc warlord can Automatically rally any greenskin unit in his presence

    Feral Orc Warlord: Can give his unit (same race) Devastating Charge

    Iron Orc Warlord: Can have a higher toughness, and offer a +1 ldrship bubble

    Each would be great but it allows for more options/diversity and more character

    Examples for Goblins:
    Forest Goblin King: Can give one unit of forest goblins ambush

    Common Goblin King: can give a unit of common goblins Ap-1 ( I mean sh!t they are only str 3)

    Cave Goblin King: can give a unit of Cave goblins a 6+regen or hatred towards 1 unit.

    I'm hoping we can make Greenskins great again. We will build a wall and make the pointy ears pay for it!!!
    ChiHammer Fantasy Battles

    ETC 2016 - Team USA Orcs and Goblins
    ETC 2017 - Team MEXICO Orcs and Goblins (c)
    ETC 2018 - Team MEXICO Orcs and Goblins (c)
    2017 - Buckeye Battles Best Overall Champion
    2017 - Hogfest GT Best Overall Champion
  • My very recent ideas considering O&G characters:

    Orc & Goblin Chars lose their tribes
    Characters don't need tribes at all. Tbh tribal spearation among characters offer hardly any additional benefit in tactical depth. We could simply delete any Lord of Fighting that is no Iron Orc, and still have rather the same game. For Goblins the same here -- why differentiate between their tribes? They have different mount option, but they only have one mount at a time.
    Get rid of tribes on characters. Merge them. Have some kind of equipment section that states :"Choose max one of the following: Plate Armor, 5++ Ward Save, Chariot, ...". And finally we would get rid of this useless Feral Orc Shaman Frenzy.
    This does not mean that there are no tribes for characters. It simply would be merged in one entry to save space and avoid redundancy and unnecessary stat differences.

    Orc Characters do not provide better LD to Goblins than Goblin Characters

    I had numerous ideas how to get this work. The result is what counts. An Orc General should not be able to push the LD of a Goblin unit higher than a Goblin General. I know, this has always been and would be kind of a harsh change, but I think it would be worth it. Both, Orc and Goblin focused armies will both be able to profit from such a change, as the in-built synergy between "high" Orc general LD and low Goblin LD (as a cheap tarpit) will be reduced. On the other hand, the specific LD's could be improved or points could be reduced.
    (a) increase Goblin LD but give them special rule like -LD for some kind of Panic, Fear and Break Tests;
    (b) decrease Orc LD but give them special rule like +LD for Panic Fear and Break Tests;
    (c) Goblins have a special rule that their LD can't be risen above a certain value (=Goblin King LD);

    Lord of Fighting/Sneaking Power Level

    Orcs are good fighters, but not too good ones compared to other races. But if Orcs get older and stronger, their body gets stronger and stronger with more and more fights they win/survive. While normal "unit" level Orcs are sub par in a one on one matchup (compared to the average of all the other armies), the step size to an Orc character is large. Orc characters are over par compared to the average character. In numbers maybe like this: core unit Orc is weaker than a core Dwarf or Elf, but the Orc character is stronger than a Dwarf or Elf character. But for sure still weaker than an Ogre character or a WdG character. Compared to the average stat increase of charcters, the Orc characters should above average improve in some raw physical stat like for example S, T, W and A.
    Goblins are really bad fighters and cowards. But their characters are as well growing more than other armies characters (with Goblin characters still being "bad"). However, a Goblin not being killed for a longt time, will above average grow in dexterity and trickiness. While overall not super strong fighters, they are somewhere around human characters. They grow more than average in stats like for example WS, BS, I or getting special rules like Armor Piercing, Distracting, Lighting Reflexes, Poison Attacks, Lethal Strike etc.

    Green Spirit - Force Feedback
    I like the idea of Orcs and Goblins creating some diffuse green energy field, amplifying itself upon mobbing up its distributors. Some green individuals, aka characters, are more susceptible, permeated, influenenced by the Green Spirit. Just like the Force in Star Wars, but with the difference that Orcs and Goblins around create and amplify the Force. The range is limited, so characters must be inside a large unit of Orcs/Goblins to achieve the bonus. The quantity of models necessary to provide the bonus to the character should be above the minimum unit size (maybe 30 for Orcs and 40 for Goblins). Only one character per unit can achieve the bonus.
    Th exact effect of this special rule is of course a factor of discussion. Predominantly of course so close combat stat buffs for fighty characters and some minor magic buffs for the Docs and Shamans. As a character with special powers, the army general can cound all models in his LD bubble to achieve the bonus. Of course for Goblins to achieve the bonus, onyl count Goblins; for Orcs only count Orcs.
    This rule is not directly intended to buff the characters, but more to nerf them if they are on their own. Large units of block infantry accompanied by a fighty character inside should be the basic O&G strategy.

    Usefulness of LD on (non General) Characters at all
    Currently, we often see a General, a BSB and a Wizard. Maybe some Goblin Chief chaff cowboys. The benefit of a character is too low while it's price is too high. I have a very drastic suggestion: REMOVE CHIEFS! Only have one set of stats, equipment and mounts. We will only have Warlords and Kings. But they all have only 100 points of magic items, except the army general. The army general has 200 points in magic equipment and has the Waargh (or Green Tide or whatever). With lower magic item allowance and not being the general providing bullbe LD, the Warlords and Kings can become a little bit cheaper (or not become more expensive when applying some buff as suggested before). However, with this rule, it might be a little bit more interesting to buy a fighting character that is not the general, just to put him in a unit and operate him outside our general LD bubble - but without having lower than general LD.
    If this change seems too dramatic, it could as well be achieved by only improving Chief's LD to Warlord's / King's LD. Btw, I don't like cowboy play. We should use units for being suicidal chaff, not characters.

    Shamans and Witchdoctors

    Tbh, I'm quite happy with the overall design concept of those in the current army book. Orc shamans get significant fighting buffs compared to the average wizard dude, gj, I like. We could even think of some more combat buffs, combined with not being able to be as good in magic as the others (maybe only 3 spells for example). Just a rough idea.
    Goblin Witchdoctors have only 2 wounds....nice concept. However, their LD should be only -1 from Goblin King, not -2 or -3. They are not as good leaders, but they are clever and Goblins like this. However, having only 2 wounds is a serious disadvantage that should be payed back with correct point decreases.
    With the path selection i'm quite happy. I don't think Druidism fits to us. 4 paths is good, not more. More would lead to an arms race with other factions. But I could think of race specific magic bonuses for their Green Spirit. Maybe something like "+3 to channel rolls for Orc Shamans in close combat". "+3 to channel rolls for Witchdoctors that have fleeing Goblins in 12" around". Small things like that, showing the greenie's preferred behaviour.

    Waaaargh / Green Tide / Whatsoever
    This is our unique selling proposition. This is a very important rule for our army, making a significant part of our feeling. The basic design frame should be "0-1 General only; once per game; lasts until end of player turn; covers the whole battle field; affects only Greenhide races". Above this, nearly all rules for Waaargh are worth discussing about.
    The two different Generals (Orc and Goblin) should have significantly different options. The Green Tide should prdominantly help Goblins while the Waaargh should predominantly help Orcs. However, there should not be an implicit rule that restricts Waaargh on Orcs, but the effect should be something an Orc does get more profit from (and the other way round). While Orcs should get something like Devestating Charge, Thunderous Charge, Hatred, Frenzy or some other raw, brute buffs, the Goblins should more get something that bases on their sheer quantity -- FieR, more rank bonus possible.
    The current rules do already point in the right direction, but they are not meaningful enough. Both effcts should have influence on the psych and on the physis of the Greenskins. Providing buffs that mainly help getting into and winning a close combat. Movement is an interesting part of the Waaargh / Green Tide, especially the Swiftstride part. It is great to permanently see the fear in your opponent's eyes; he never knows when you will release the power of the Waargh. He is always afraid of this increased charge distance. This is the greatest part of the Waaargh, the uncertainty, even in turns you don't use the Waaargh.
    Psychology is also an aspect that has not been adressed by Waaargh. I could think of units that automatically rally (maybe even able to charge if being a Goblin unit affeced by Green Tide?), be Immune to Psychology this player turn, even being stubborn or unbreakable for this one single turn. Our opponent should really be afraid of the Waaargh. Not only yawn tiredly, or even forget about it!
    However, with increased effect, the Waaaargh should of course still be priced correctly. Maybe it would be nice to make the price % based, cheaper in smaller games and more expensive in large games. I don't like the idea of a Waaargh that is totally waste in small games and OP in large games. It is not everything always 4500.
    Some while ago I had the idea of having more different Waaarghs. For example Tribe specific ones. Iron Orc General Waaargh, Feral Orc Waaargh, Forest Goblin Green Tide etc. Not sure if it is possible to have 6 different Waasrghs with 6 different ruleset to all be adequately different and all balanced. If possbile, it would be nice. Also some kind of Shaman/Witchdoctor specific Waaargh (or however to call it) could be an option. You should get a nice special super Waaargh if you voluntarily choose to have low LD general.

    Ok, that's enough for today.
    Keep on having ideas :)

    My Proposals for : O&G Religion

    The post was edited 6 times, last by arwaker ().

  • I hate having a warboss who can't survive going to combat. Give them more wounds or something that makes them last more than 2 seconds in combat. I would prefer having them well defended with low offensive output. Especially general and BSB.

    I miss having more options overall in equipping our characters. It could be cool to be able to outfit characters to different roles.

    I somewhat agree with @arwaker that there's currently too much redundancy. Either make the races very different and viable, or merge them.
    Cheers! :)
    Orc Forum
  • once again a post filled with nerfs arwaker. Do you even play greenskins?

    we are low leadership already, you want to punish mixed race armies further by orc generals not buffing goblin leadership above goblin general level? ugh, horrible.

    less spells for orc wizards - puts us backwards, who cares how well an orc shaman fights, if he's fighting youve screw*d up.

    +3 channel if an orc wizard is fighting? ugh. if an orc wizard is fighting anything meaningful he's gonna die, this is a really weak, and situational benefit that nobody will play for, your opponent would love you for it.

    most of it is unusable too:

    +3 to channel if fleeing units around? as a paid for ability? c'mon.

    "Btw, I don't like cowboy play. " - subjective personal opinion, nothing to do with a problem in the army.

    dont we already even have one entry for warbosses with a branch for each sub race? you want to allow the 5++ ward save from a savage orc to be purchasable by an iron orc or am i misunderstanding?

    sorry man, dont really agree with anything you posted (and its a wall of text - ;).
  • Ok here are my thoughts on the matter. Sorry for typoes as usual. It came out quite long sorry.

    - Fluff - Orc heroes are basically alphaorcs. In society based around might makes right, leaders will be biggest, meansest, toughest killiest, most scary guys there are. If not there will be some other big orc that will bash their heads and take their place. Simple as that, natural selection in its extreame.

    - Rules - IMO this means Orc characters should be virtual powerhouses. They should be qute expensive (and this would be in lines with fluff how othen orc of a stature impressive enough to unite entire tribes of greenskins arise from the ranks?) but if taken they should be scary. Their priorieties should be as follows (from most important):

    1) Survivability: Easy access to very high armor (for character standards that is) is propably no-no but they should be nightmare to deal with, even dedicated character killers should have problems disposing of them, this propably means close to absurd T similar to T of some preatty big monsters, many W, good WS and good defensive magic/items. They should be very hard to kill but killing them should be a big deal for an enemy. Right now it has big impact to O&G army, as it falls apart without IP and HYG bubbles fast, but they are not that hard to kill outright or assasinate.

    2) Army support - As our army is and should be dependant on Ld orc characters should be on high end of character Ld spectrum (in contrast to our units that are on the lower end of Ld spectrum). They should also provede a lot of synergies and support.

    3) Kiliness - They should also be killy but not nececerly as a prime concern. Their kiliness should work in lines of them being very hard to kill and thus being able to pommel enemy to death over time. So I would say their attack power (on avarage there will be more and less killy builds for diferent purposes) should be in the upper middle point of scale as far as pure attack power of characters goes.

    Fluff - Goblins are sneaky bunch, weak, and cowardly but smart and mieschievous. Frankly they are like orcs anthythesis. Where orcs are strong, goblins are weak, where orcs are brave goblins are cowardly, where orcs are stupid goblins are smart, where orcs are stright forward goblins are sneaky, in almost any characteristic (asiade from being green and numerous) they differ.

    - Rules - GToblin characters should be rather weak for characters but also cheap and numerous, I would say their priorieties are as follows.
    1) Price: All goblin characters should be very cheap, propably one of cheapest characters out there, their stats should of course reflact that but they should be desposable and redundant - way to move lidership to another character after generals death could be a thing for example.

    2) Army support - again O&G army is virtually useless without characters support. Goblins should not provide level of Ld or support that orcs does but they should nevertheless provide medium level of Ld minimum, as well as some decent synergies.

    3) Special sneaky effects - Goblin characters should be able to provide whide variety of special effects, synergies and supporting abielieties that should not be very powerfull on their own but shoudl work more around enemies endevours. They should be irytating things that enemy whats to deal with but often has to prioritise something else over them.

    General comments
    1) Double allowance magic Items. Magic items section is ESSENTIAL to making charactetrs what they need to be. And our magic items section is preatty terrible. This is partially due to fact that we have so many characters that differ so drastically. We should have double magic items allowance with half of the list reserved solely for goblins and other half for orcs only (this is better idea than making all of them non race specyfic becouse even without restrictions items designed for orcs will be useless for goblins and items designed for goblins will be useless for orcs most of the time).

    2) Mages should follow same gudlines as their resp[ective counterparts. Shamans should follow similar gudlines as orcs, they should be one of toughest and resiliant mages in the game, buut they do not nececerly need to be killy as they will relay on their powers for that. Similarly Goblin Witchdoctors should be sneaky and provide trics but do not need as many of them as goblin kings or cieftains, they have magic for that.

    3) One diference between mages should be that Shamans should be able to preform as generals (worse than dedicated Warlords or chieftains of course) while witchdoctors should not be good general material in any sense.

    1) My personal fluff driven wish is to see some kind of monstrous Orc character that could represenbt what Grimgor should look like in WFB, propably on 40x40 or 50x50 base.

    2) Do not nerf our characters, we should be dependent on them to function properly (sorry @arwaker I do do not like your ideas they would IMO create more problems than solve them).

    3) Another wishlisting point is to give forest gobbos druidism, They rely so heavily on nature to survive even creating sumbiotic relationships with dangerous animals that this is just no brainier for me.

    Best regards
    Best regards

    Retireing for unspecyfied period of time. Sometime I hate the world.

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Sklodo ().

  • Rog27 wrote:

    once again a post filled with nerfs arwaker. Do you even play greenskins?

    we are low leadership already, you want to punish mixed race armies further by orc generals not buffing goblin leadership above goblin general level? ugh, horrible.

    less spells for orc wizards - puts us backwards, who cares how well an orc shaman fights, if he's fighting youve screw*d up.

    +3 channel if an orc wizard is fighting? ugh. if an orc wizard is fighting anything meaningful he's gonna die, this is a really weak, and situational benefit that nobody will play for, your opponent would love you for it.

    most of it is unusable too:

    +3 to channel if fleeing units around? as a paid for ability? c'mon.

    "Btw, I don't like cowboy play. " - subjective personal opinion, nothing to do with a problem in the army.

    dont we already even have one entry for warbosses with a branch for each sub race? you want to allow the 5++ ward save from a savage orc to be purchasable by an iron orc or am i misunderstanding?

    sorry man, dont really agree with anything you posted (and its a wall of text - ;).
    please refrain from critiquing others in these threads and use these as a means to brainstorm. the ACS will then get a majority feel from the proposals and submit them. we dont want this to turn into a back and forth debate but a collection of ideas from everyone.

    O&G Community Supportt

  • My internal visualization of an Orc is that he is the embodiment of warfare and battle. He is what would happen to Ares if he lost his humanity. His brutal path through the world rallies the groups and mobs of Orcs to him.

    To that end:
    -Orcs characters should have a hide like steel offering innate defense
    -Toughness and wounds to handle hits and live up to their rumored regeneration over other armies
    -Unrivaled strength and attacks
    -Option for Lords of Fightin to become MI or MC with a statline increase/special rules but takes up big n nasty. Can imbed safely in units so in all footsloggers lower monster army ur lord is a beast leading.
    -Would be nice for Orc lord mount monster like gobbos have of gargantula

    I often feel like mundane cheap character spam of bosses should be a viable strategy or to support ld deficiency.
    -Orc and goblin Chiefs should have stubborn as long as general alive and not fleeing reflecting their drive to keep fightin depsite losses and prove themsleves.

    orc and goblin shamans should be unique and lightening rod of greenskin power
    -make shrooms worthwhile
    -IO shaman, think alchemy fluffy for him
    -give forest shaman something fluffy like shrooms
    -units fighting around them should power spell strength

    Goblin characters to me always remind me of Styx, sneaky not super tough but deadly

    -lords should have lethal strike, chiefs poison as goblins have combat power through precise surprising strikes see below
    -unlike orcs stressing s,t,w,a goblins would be weaker but cool if they had some aspects of sneaky gits, Surprise! For instance on non general characters, popping out of the unit with some first round benefits possibly slightly modified from sneaky gits
    -goblin characters are always compared to assassins and as such would be nice if they could refuse challenges without penalty thats not how they roll and no gobbo would think less