Tournament rules (51% of models MUST be represented)

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  • Tournament rules (51% of models MUST be represented)

    Hi.

    In the tournament pack rules, (which I guess most of the users did not read yet...) it states that "51% must be carry the right weapon choice". Well, we used to complain about GW... but 9th Age is even worse... We are force to BUY more modells than in the past just because someone had this "happy idea"...

    For example: Empire - humans
    Regimient of 50 halberd with shield
    26 miniatures MUST be halberd with shield
    24 can be just humans.
    what the hell? that means I Need: 26 spear men with shield, 26 swordmen with shield, 26 halberd, 26 halberd with shield.... That means a total of: 104 miniatures for each 50unit. AND if I want to Play 2 Units, I must multiply this number by two... It is completely crazy...

    Sombody can say now..."you do not Need all choices"... really? do not I? the game is changing every 6 months...


    I propose: Please delete that stupid rule and put something like "right weapon choise JUST the front line, the rest must be the same type"... I think that is MORE than enough, especially for a game wihtout official miniatures...

    PS: I already saw some tournaments with this "pack rules". It is absolutely crazy..
  • I am not a big fan of it either... But it's kind of bind to the fact that we do not have any official models and some players seem to push the limited hard to the point that it becomes close to impossible for the opponent to know what he is up against. Particular when multiple similar/identical miniatures are selected for different units with different in game rules.

    But I agree 51% seems odd and for me personally the first rank would be good enough.
  • Artegis wrote:

    For example: Empire - humans
    Regimient of 50 halberd with shield
    26 miniatures MUST be halberd with shield
    24 can be just humans.
    what the hell? that means I Need: 26 spear men with shield, 26 swordmen with shield, 26 halberd, 26 halberd with shield.... That means a total of: 104 miniatures for each 50unit. AND if I want to Play 2 Units, I must multiply this number by two... It is completely crazy...
    Actually you need 13 guys of each type when there are two separate axis of equipment options....13 halberd & shield + 13 halberd + 13 sword & shield = 26 halberds and 26 shields, and 11 dudes with whatever equipment you want.

    So you need 52 guys to represent a unit of 50. Call it 55 to accommodate for command which you may or may not want to include.

    If you want to add spears to the list (which then covers everything a 50 man heavy infantry unit could be equipped with) that's 26 of each weapon, 50% with shields, so 78. +2 for standard and musician (you can place the champion in the back if he isn't being one) makes 80.
    Of which you use 50. But then, those other 30 guys could be the 49% in anything else that's infantry.



    I mean, I don't agree with your point on principle, cos WYSIWYG is important for clarity, but frankly you don't even really have a point from a practical perspective.
    Hristo Nikolov
  • tiny wrote:

    I am not a big fan of it either... But it's kind of bind to the fact that we do not have any official models and some players seem to push the limited hard to the point that it becomes close to impossible for the opponent to know what he is up against. Particular when multiple similar/identical miniatures are selected for different units with different in game rules.

    But I agree 51% seems odd and for me personally the first rank would be good enough.
    I can completely understand what you mean.

    But I will explain my case...

    I have lot of empire... militia, archers, halberds... But actually I do not have all the combinations. And I reject the Chance to buy them until 9th Age is frozen, for years. I consider I have enough material for playing. But most of the People I Showed this rule they disagree...
    If I want to use halberds and in a Horde Formation, and I have, lets say 10 with shield. I guess the rest should be fine if they are other "human models". At least, until now we did like this... I am against "Stones as Dragons" or " orks in elves Units". But to represent the weapon choice, just the WEAPON CHOICE (which is my only complaint) it is almost impossible... Games Workshop did not produce all combinations for all Units, and nowadays even their products are not available.

    51% it is a very high percentage... with front rank and "sidemodels" should be neough...
  • Nop,

    50 models are: 7 in the front (10 minus FCG), 4 in each side... 15...There is a huge difference between 15 and 26.
    This is what I mean...


    Frederik... it is being imposed in some tournaments. I do not mind, i can ask for the models in tournament, but it is not a good rule if we want to "promote" the game.. does it?
  • Fnarrr wrote:



    (Just front rank obviously won't work, because when you get 3 command + a joined character or 2 you can no longer tell what the unit has)
    Why can not work? If I have an unit of spearmen and only the front rank are halberd it is not confusing... They are humans with a 2-hand weapon.

    Same for bowmen and crossbowmen. They wear a Shooting weapong.

    Explain to the People that skaven slaves must be done with 50% of the right model... when most of the People use GW mono figures.
  • Artegis wrote:

    Nop,

    50 models are: 7 in the front (10 minus FCG), 4 in each side... 15...There is a huge difference between 15 and 26.
    This is what I mean...
    That's if you are in horde. Do you never reform?


    Artegis wrote:

    Why can not work? If I have an unit of spearmen and only the front rank are halberd it is not confusing... They are humans with a 2-hand weapon.
    Literally the opposite of what you said before =.= is this unit spears or halberds now?
    Hristo Nikolov
  • On one Hand you have the People which are upset about having to have 51% right on the other side you have the People which are upset that you can have 49% wrong ...

    Than you have the guys which just put 100% correct models on the table, because they buy and somhow paint what they Play and wonder why guys which even don't have the correct models equipement make jokes about their paint skills.

    The truth always lays in the middle. The aim is that there shouldn't be to much confusion. I can'T Count how many times I am asked per game wether that are the chameleons or the Skink Hunters. Yes they have different unit bases and different weapon choices.

    Yes, total conversion / Count as armies can be stretching in the rules.

    But if the weapon of choice is not so relevant for one Player, than he can always Play the weapon he has ...
    Doesn't have: Vermin Swarm, Dread Elves, Warriors of the Dark Gods and Infernal Dwarfs. Has: Everything else.

    Translation DE

    SA ACS

    Please don't forget to check out Lustria Online! lustria-online.com/, tabletopwelt.de and warhammer-board.de
  • I can understand requiring different units to use different models. But beyond that, we don't sell models, so why do we care at all?

    The tournament pack should say 'units which are materially different should be represented by different models such that the opponent can distinguish them'. What more needs to be said?
    Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.
  • Okay, than you surely have no Problems if I use my Dwarfs as models for all other armies ...
    Doesn't have: Vermin Swarm, Dread Elves, Warriors of the Dark Gods and Infernal Dwarfs. Has: Everything else.

    Translation DE

    SA ACS

    Please don't forget to check out Lustria Online! lustria-online.com/, tabletopwelt.de and warhammer-board.de
  • Just_Flo wrote:

    Okay, than you surely have no Problems if I use my Dwarfs as models for all other armies ...
    I have no problem with that.
    Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.
  • Me neither, but half the guys (all wonderfull persons) and every painter I have met would have Problems with that. So in my opinion we would loose many persons with that.
    Doesn't have: Vermin Swarm, Dread Elves, Warriors of the Dark Gods and Infernal Dwarfs. Has: Everything else.

    Translation DE

    SA ACS

    Please don't forget to check out Lustria Online! lustria-online.com/, tabletopwelt.de and warhammer-board.de
  • Just_Flo wrote:

    Okay, than you surely have no Problems if I use my Dwarfs as models for all other armies ...
    Proper base size and an army list. that's all you need. if someone is too lazy to read your army list then that's their fault. if you are about to charge a unit and don't ask about special rules or anything like that then you're going to have a bad time.

    I can't wait to meet someone that's super uptight about models matching, i'll ask them to explain to me why there heroes and lords aren't built to display the magic items they have.
  • Frederick wrote:

    @Squirrelloid: are you trolling or are you serious? (Honest question)
    Dead serious.

    -Right base
    -Differentiable (materially different units are distinguishable)

    No issues from me. That's all the rules and the needs of play require. Their army, their time, their models - their preferences are what should matter.

    (And in terms of experience, a very personalized army is much more fun to play against than just 'it was what GW made for models').
    Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.
  • Yeah then still we find here GW fanboys.

    A goblin is a goblin. A stone is a stone. A human is a human. If the front line of the unit has halberds and the rest are humans (same army and same size), clapping their hands, why is so important the weapons? If they have the same army colour... Why do the rules have to force people to buy miniatures from GW when in reality the ninth age wants to be different?
  • I wish I could click "like" for @Squirrelloids post more than once. That mirrors my view completely.

    Personally, I think that we, as makers of the game and NOT as official tournament operators, should not be trying to promote any kind of WYSIWYG, ever. We don't make models, and we have nothing to gain by trying to enforce it. If an individual tournament organizer wants to institute their own WYSIWYG rules, that is on them. But we should not be trying to enforce that at all.

    I think mindless devotion to the completely outdated notion of WYSIWYG is going to kill this game more than anything else.