UD: OLD-v0.8 playtesting feedback

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    • I had my first “Pre-Beta draft 1” game yesterday evening.

      UD vs EoL 2500pts.
      We both used the current sneak peaks of both armies pre-beta draft.

      We both have played some years and I try to attend around 4-5 tournaments/year same for my opponent. I have played TK for the last 1.5 years.

      I played:

      Lvl4 sand with pathmaster (general)
      Lvl2 light with Book of the Dead
      Harbringer BSB with Crown of the Pharaohs
      Engineer on Snake with lance and hardened shield

      30 archers with mus, standard of discipline
      30 archers with mus
      3x5 Light cav

      6 PK, FC
      10 Bowshabti, FC

      Necrotitan with bow
      Soul Colossus

      EoL:
      Lvl 3 Master of paths
      BSB, lvl1 Highmagic
      High warden of flame

      Archers, light cav and heavy cav in core. 2 min units of each.

      Around 20 PotF, razor banner
      2 Horse Chariot with vanguard
      3 Bolters
      2 Flame phoenix


      It was a close match but a small victory for EoL.

      Bone Engineer:
      When I first sat down to make my list I thought of a “death star” type of unit with PK and engineers but I couldn’t justify the points for a big unit of snakes and 2 engineers. 2 Engineers on snakes cost minimum 270 with no gear. Like someone pointed out if you use 2 in one unit you pay for hatred times 2 that you don’t use. And if you use 1 engineer like I did you pay for 6 regen that is mostly useless.
      In my game one engineer was completely useless, especially since mounts does not get hatred. It was 135pts that I could have used on something else. He´s cost as much as 2 PK and a magic banner or 3 Shabits. Atm I can´t see much use in a single Engineer (and 2 is too expensive), maybe in a horde of PG naked (but I can´t really see him survive to be useful since most enemies strike first with only T4 W2 and no option for parry)?

      Harbringer:
      Was kind of interesting with BSB and Crown. I choose Harbringer over a prince since I feel that princes and kings are to expensive, especially in my list where they shouldn’t fight. Harbringer with BSB costs 15pts less than a prince. Since the mission was to give BS to Shabtis or archers I rather use a Harbringer and get BSB “free” than a prince.
      I will try him some more in shooty lists.


      Book of the Dead was used 1 time and is a decent item. Hard to get enough power dice these days thou.


      Crown of Pharaohs:
      I like it.


      Light cavalry:
      Expensive is the word that comes to mind. They cost as much as elvish light cav that have move 9, light armor, spear and the option march everywhere. I think they were fine before.

      PK:
      A good unit.


      Shabtis:
      Not 100% sold on the new S4 melee on bowshabtis but it was nice with the extra bodies that 40pts/model allowed (they didn’t see any real combat) since they drop fast if they get some attention from bolters/magic. Have to try these guys some more vs tougher armies with higher T or AS.

      Necrotitan:
      He did 1 wound the entire game. BS2 isn´t very hot when you have 1-2 shoots/phase. Bow is very hit or miss.

      Soul Colossus:
      Is a must. UD is still dependent on magic to do stuff and since we can´t get power dice like we used to this guy is very much needed.

      Overall:
      I think our characters are a bit expensive, heal or no heal. Bone engineer I probably won´t use again (can´t really see where he would be useful in a competitive game). I think the regen should be an option that you pay for and not included in the price. That way you can customize him to fit your list a bit better.
      I feel that our magic phase is so much less reliable now than before. I had a lot of low/bad magic phases that really hurts when you get into combat. Our units still need magic to compete in the combat phase.
      I think casket should give one extra power dice so that UD have the chance to get 2 extra dice/magic phase and be costed accordingly.
      //Stockholm

      UD, WDG and O&G
    • Hi guys,

      I've created a quartermaster template for UD and noticed the following. May I check:

      Casket Pyramid Guard - should they be Str & T3? Not 4? They also have no armour?

      Catapult Crew - no light armour

      Skeleton Horse as a mount for characters has I3 rather than I2 like all other horses?

      Do characters displace all the crew on a mount, for example a Pharoah on a Sphinx/chariot?

      Angels of Death do not have the Dust to Dust rule?

      I really like what you have done with the army. 8th version of TK's was a real disappointment thanks to a poor book with signs of little to no playtesting!

      Paul
      Paul Godbold - Host of The Fantasy Wargaming Podcast
      Twitter - @thegodbold
      Check us out on iTunes, via our host http://tfwp.podomatic.com/ or at tfwp.page.tl/ for the MP3 download.

      Shop at Goblin Gaming for all your goodies via our link :thumbsup:
    • Godbold wrote:

      Hi guys,

      I've created a quartermaster template for UD and noticed the following. May I check:

      Casket Pyramid Guard - should they be Str & T3? Not 4? They also have no armour?

      Catapult Crew - no light armour

      Skeleton Horse as a mount for characters has I3 rather than I2 like all other horses?

      Do characters displace all the crew on a mount, for example a Pharoah on a Sphinx/chariot?

      Angels of Death do not have the Dust to Dust rule?

      I really like what you have done with the army. 8th version of TK's was a real disappointment thanks to a poor book with signs of little to no playtesting!

      Paul
      Looks like you're using the TAC file, which is full of holes and outdated. The UD pre-beta list has been out for two weeks now :p

      Entombed Dynasties Pre-Beta List

      Most of the issues spotted here have been fixed in it. I'll ask the ABC guys if the init 3 horse is an accident or not.
    • it's my third game with pre beta .

      We two experienced player with many tournaments

      UD vs BH 2400

      ED :
      Pharaoh with armour of eternities , sword +1 strength , ws 4+ , shield


      Death priest 4 lvl , sands , dispel , book of dead

      Cursed prince with mithril mail and beast bane halberd

      30 skeleton warrior + full command
      27 skeleton archers +Champion
      3 chariot
      3 chariot
      2 great vultures
      2 great vultures
      2 great vultures
      20 pyramid guard +shield + full command
      1 sand scorpion
      4 shabti + halberd
      1 necrotitan
      2 skull catapult

      BH

      I didn't remember exactly the BH list

      Minotaur great hero
      Beast lord TS 4+ , GW
      2 shaman 2 lvl
      1 hero bsb
      2 x 25 gors
      2 x 20 nogor
      1 x 28 bestigor
      3x1 chariot
      1 gorgon
      5 minotaur with shield
      3 x 5 nogor skirmisher
      1x5 hounds

      Result of game : major victory for BH

      My thinks :

      Our charachters is too expensive ....

      Skeleton warrior and archers OK

      Chariot not bad at all

      Great vultures , impossible for me to play without ....very good

      Grave guard , very good anvil but seems a bit expensive

      Necrotitan ....die too fast , but the guy have potential.

      Skull catapult , not bad but too expensive with skull of the enemy included.

      Shabti with halberd , not bad at all

      Sand scorpion , a bit expensive


      I think UD have one big problem: The magic phase .

      Our army is magic phase based and now magic phase is higly nerferd.
      Our healing power is low ...very low .
      We have nice anvil but without magic support mostly of our unit can't win hard combat.

      We need some extra dices , maybe one plus one of channel at least.

      P.s. i never used book of the dead in 2 game

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Koradris ().

    • Palmu wrote:

      Godbold wrote:

      Hi guys,

      I've created a quartermaster template for UD and noticed the following. May I check:

      Casket Pyramid Guard - should they be Str & T3? Not 4? They also have no armour?

      Catapult Crew - no light armour

      Skeleton Horse as a mount for characters has I3 rather than I2 like all other horses?

      Do characters displace all the crew on a mount, for example a Pharoah on a Sphinx/chariot?

      Angels of Death do not have the Dust to Dust rule?

      I really like what you have done with the army. 8th version of TK's was a real disappointment thanks to a poor book with signs of little to no playtesting!

      Paul
      Looks like you're using the TAC file, which is full of holes and outdated. The UD pre-beta list has been out for two weeks now :P
      Entombed Dynasties Pre-Beta List

      Most of the issues spotted here have been fixed in it. I'll ask the ABC guys if the init 3 horse is an accident or not.
      Cheers for pointing me at the new document. A big improvement from the first list which, in itself, was a massive leap forward from 8th.

      I've updated the QM app and submitted it today. Should help with planning the lists - how I have missed that since AoS dropped!

      A few questions:

      Why is the Royal Sphinx not a monster? Loosing the Stomp D6 is quite big...
      Should the snake knights riders have magical attacks (to match the rest of the Pyramid Guard)?
      I assume characters in chariots can join units of chariots but I can't see a rule to support this.
      Also, does a character in a chariot get the Free Reform special rule (redundant if it can't join a unit).
      How large is the token that is to be used for the 'Underground Ambush'? I'm not a **** but, RAW, this can be abused.
      Regards the catapult, I assume the Multiple Wounds (Ordnance) only applies to the model under the hole rather than the whole template?

      Initial thoughts as an 'Expert' (according to your outline!) player:

      List looks like what I always imagined it should. The variety and theme of the army is appealing and I also like the new mechanic of making initial units cost more (for example swarms cost 70 for 2 but only 25 for each additional base). It takes into account 2 carrion are really useful and the third and subsequent models bring less to the unit's effectiveness, etc.

      May I suggest that Pyramid Guard can take great weapons? It would add an extra option to the list and is a solid option to consider, particularly as they are low initiative.

      I intend to play 10-20 or so games with the list before giving any further feedback but, needless to say, this has rekindled my interest in the army.

      Paul
      Paul Godbold - Host of The Fantasy Wargaming Podcast
      Twitter - @thegodbold
      Check us out on iTunes, via our host http://tfwp.podomatic.com/ or at tfwp.page.tl/ for the MP3 download.

      Shop at Goblin Gaming for all your goodies via our link :thumbsup:
    • The Royal Sphinx is not a monster, as a monster created with durability in mind is a massive pain in the arse to balance. Either it's too weak, subpar, or too damn good. We couldn't find a middle ground, and thus, for now it'll be a monstrous creature. If we find a reasonable balance in the future, it may return to being a monster, but this option was quite simply the easiest one to take, which still allowed us to keep the Royal Sphinx relevant.

      Magical attacks: They're two different units. While they have similar statlines, they units are different. It's just not "this is a pyramid guard on a mount" kind of situation.

      Chariots: There's no rule for characters joining units of chariots, nor is there a rule for characters NOT joining units of chariots. And so, just like with every other unit, chariot units can be joined by characters. They don't get the Free Reform special rule. Chariot units with a character in them lose the Free Reform special rule. This means that the unit can score, as well as benefit from a change coming to impact hits in version 0.9

      UA token: The token is the size of a coin, as with all other coins. The size of this coin varies, I suppose, but you'll be hard pressed to find a legal coin that can abuse the system. About the size of an euro.

      catapults: Yes, only under the hole.

      Great Weapons: It was thought of, but seen as something that brings us even closer the the vampire Barrowmen. We prefer to keep the units as distinct as they can be, being what they are.
    • Palmu wrote:

      The Royal Sphinx is not a monster, as a monster created with durability in mind is a massive pain in the arse to balance. Either it's too weak, subpar, or too damn good. We couldn't find a middle ground, and thus, for now it'll be a monstrous creature. If we find a reasonable balance in the future, it may return to being a monster, but this option was quite simply the easiest one to take, which still allowed us to keep the Royal Sphinx relevant.

      Magical attacks: They're two different units. While they have similar statlines, they units are different. It's just not "this is a pyramid guard on a mount" kind of situation.

      Chariots: There's no rule for characters joining units of chariots, nor is there a rule for characters NOT joining units of chariots. And so, just like with every other unit, chariot units can be joined by characters. They don't get the Free Reform special rule. Chariot units with a character in them lose the Free Reform special rule. This means that the unit can score, as well as benefit from a change coming to impact hits in version 0.9

      UA token: The token is the size of a coin, as with all other coins. The size of this coin varies, I suppose, but you'll be hard pressed to find a legal coin that can abuse the system. About the size of an euro.

      catapults: Yes, only under the hole.

      Great Weapons: It was thought of, but seen as something that brings us even closer the the vampire Barrowmen. We prefer to keep the units as distinct as they can be, being what they are.
      Hi Palmu,

      Cheers for the answers. I'll push some toys around and give you the feedback as promised.

      Noted about the chariots. I was in 8th mode and didn't see that there was no rule saying your couldn't put a character on a chariot into a unit. Opens up some interesting options...

      GW's was just a suggestion. It really does give the Barrowman the edge, particularly as they get the heavy armour too. I would also be interested to see if they could work with AHW's. Regardless, the new rules are a vast improvement on the ones of old!

      Now to buy me some more Sabti...

      Paul
      Paul Godbold - Host of The Fantasy Wargaming Podcast
      Twitter - @thegodbold
      Check us out on iTunes, via our host http://tfwp.podomatic.com/ or at tfwp.page.tl/ for the MP3 download.

      Shop at Goblin Gaming for all your goodies via our link :thumbsup: