Reflecting on Issue 6 - 2.0 BRB and WDG Background + Rules Spoilers

  • Ilderoth wrote:

    If I read the the new chart correctly, then you need an offensive WS that is 4 points higher than the opponent's defensive WS to get the same to hit roll.
    yes, a +4 to OWS is the exact same as lightning reflexes

    Ilderoth wrote:

    This would mean that Elves have to get ridiculously high offensive WS (8 or 9). I doubt this will happen.
    what's wrong with this? why couldn't elves be OWS 9? they already hit almost everything on a 2+/3+ anyway, OWS 8/9 produces the exact same effect, so what's the problem? OWS 8/9 is the result of directly translating lightning reflexes into the new system. If Elves currently have the equivalent of OWS 8/9, why can't they have it afterwards?

    We don't know anything about great weapons, it's possible they come with a DWS penalty now instead of swinging last, or some other change/modifier. Or, you just make lightning reflexes a rule that cancels the always swing last of greatweapons, which still simplifies the special rule, since it does one, and only one thing,
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW

    UD Army Community Support

    Playtester

    Supreme Death Cult Hierarch

    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • We will see. I doubt that it is realy necessary to implement this change at all. If anything it will be a huge area of try and error in the beginning.
    And at the end we will see, that everybody aims at so much Offensive WS as possible combined with so many strength and AP as possible, making the defensive WS an expensive useless stat, because high offensive WS, will cancel out high defense skill and you have to pay for defense.

    You can already see this in the actual ruleset. Defense is expensive, but is canceled out by offense (mainly some +to hit bonus) and Strength.
    If you can invest the cost for defense (Armor, T) in additional offenseive power you are on the winning side.


    In fact I think elfes should have absolutely standard offensive WS, but a bit higher defensive skills. (in my opinion).
    Elfes may be FAST, but this is reflected by Ini. They are able to dodge attacks because of their speed, something that I think is better reflected in a bonus on defense WS rather than offensive WS. And it would also solve the problem with GW. Because it would be hard to argue, that the simple spearelf has OWS 8 and the GW wielding lionguard (who should not get the +1 to hit) has OWS of 5.
  • KeyserSoze wrote:

    Frumious wrote:

    Can you explain that without giving too much away?
    I'd better be safe than sorry :D The only thing I can tell is that we take seriously new players, or old players returning(hence the QS).
    Some examples are easy: if move/march is split, you dont have to remember if you have chariot, dwarves, or something else. You can see straight forward how much you can march. the same logic follows everything.

    Frumious wrote:

    it nearly doubles all the stuff you need to have memorized
    You'll see it doesn't. As I said, in the long term rules will make it easier to adapt.

    Well I have high hopes ;-), but we'll see... Regardless there is reality of what the changes are and the perception (in the rumors phase and when people have it in there hands).

    I strongly recommend a dedicated PR campaign before all the rules hit, just on the stat changes. (like one at a time, each few days or week) lkisting, the background on why, with specific examples of how its been tested and performed. I actually think GW did a good job rolling out the new 40k changes.

    Last fall I know there was a lot of fallout and real player loss at the changes. And you can already see the anxiety starting to ramp up in this thread, lol. If you can do it right, and release the info in a timely fashion, close to the rule release window of coures, in easily digestible chunks, you could direct that "anxiety" energy into "anticipation" ...
    In Davis, CA, USA. Come Play some 9th with the Bizarro Hammer Crew (look us up on Facebook)
  • Frumious wrote:

    I strongly recommend a dedicated PR campaign before all the rules hit, just on the stat changes. (like one at a time, each few days or week) lkisting, the background on why, with specific examples of how its been tested and performed. I actually think GW did a good job rolling out the new 40k changes.

    Last fall I know there was a lot of fallout and real player loss at the changes. And you can already see the anxiety starting to ramp up in this thread, lol. If you can do it right, and release the info in a timely fashion, close to the rule release window of coures, in easily digestible chunks, you could direct that "anxiety" energy into "anticipation" ...
    You do realize that you are in the comments discussing just such a PR campaign, right? :D

    We are doing everything we can to make sure that people are informed well in advance as to the kind of stuff that will be changing.

    And honestly, I think it is exciting stuff. It makes sense and should be easier to use.
  • lawgnome wrote:

    Frumious wrote:

    I strongly recommend a dedicated PR campaign before all the rules hit, just on the stat changes. (like one at a time, each few days or week) lkisting, the background on why, with specific examples of how its been tested and performed. I actually think GW did a good job rolling out the new 40k changes.

    Last fall I know there was a lot of fallout and real player loss at the changes. And you can already see the anxiety starting to ramp up in this thread, lol. If you can do it right, and release the info in a timely fashion, close to the rule release window of coures, in easily digestible chunks, you could direct that "anxiety" energy into "anticipation" ...
    You do realize that you are in the comments discussing just such a PR campaign, right? :D
    We are doing everything we can to make sure that people are informed well in advance as to the kind of stuff that will be changing.

    And honestly, I think it is exciting stuff. It makes sense and should be easier to use.
    Well sure ;-)... But its a general topic about overall V2.0 stuff (and WDG ;) ) . I think specific info targeting small bit sized details of the stat changes is warranted (when its ready of course). And posts about "wink wink we know all kinds of stuff about stuff that you don't know right now, you'll love it wink wink", arn't very anxiety soothing :P
    In Davis, CA, USA. Come Play some 9th with the Bizarro Hammer Crew (look us up on Facebook)
  • Frumious wrote:

    Well sure ;-)... But its a general topic about overall V2.0 stuff (and WDG ) . I think specific info targeting small bit sized details of the stat changes is warranted (when its ready of course). And posts about "wink wink we know all kinds of stuff about stuff that you don't know right now, you'll love it wink wink", arn't very anxiety soothing
    Technically, its a general topic about the 6th Behind The Scenes blog, and related specifically to the information presented in that blog issue, so it is pretty specific on small parts of it.

    As to the "wink wink" stuff, I'm sorry that isn't anxiety soothing. It honestly is me, as a player, saying that I am a big fan of what I've seen so far. Nothing else.
  • Totally agree with OP. The game is already very rule-heavy, multiplied with all the AB specific extra special rules, honours, clans, blessings, magical items and such. It's mind boggling, especially for new players.

    Let's combine flaming, magical and divine attacks. Combine ward save and regeneration. And so on.
    They're basically all the same thing in a slightly different package.

    Too bad there's no poll option. I would definitely vote for more simplification. Which by the way doesn't mean I am against any form of (extra) nuance. But all the exceptions and army specific stuff is getting way too much. And yes, that's also concerning all the "first 10 cost X, after that it's X+Y and the unit can only have Z number of models - but we are not encouraging MSU" kind of stuff.

    Generally a little less special stuff, overly complexity and more breathing room would be appreciated.
  • lawgnome wrote:

    It's only some special rules that cause trouble (basically, those that you rarely see, so you don't know them automatically).

    If it is something that is easy to see (like having a march score of 9 for dwarves), it is a heck of a lot easier to remember compared to having a rule somewhere that says you can triple march (I know I forgot during my first few games).

    Not all special rules are hated on. Just a few :)
    Lol. If you play dwarves and forget you march 3 times movement...

    Has that ever happened??
  • Halfwhere wrote:

    Lol. If you play dwarves and forget you march 3 times movement...

    Has that ever happened??
    I doubt it, but the dwarven players opponent, may have forgotten or not known dwarves triple move.
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW

    UD Army Community Support

    Playtester

    Supreme Death Cult Hierarch

    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.