BTS Blog - Issue 9 Discussion Thread

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is here! You can read all about it in the news.

  • @Kathal

    I didnt saw your last question.

    The +1 Move banner should go away. The same reason why +1LD banner went away. Movement is a strength and weakness to some armies.

    +1 move for infantry is up to 25%!!! increase of movement for cavalry it is 12,5%.... again only half effective

    What do i mean with "worst spot KoE".

    KoE has NO own magic path. All 3 path are clealry written for other armies (wilderness = beast / nature = SA monster mash / Divination = elfen)

    Cavalry has to test at every terrain piece while infantry at only 1... there is no terrain which buffs cavalry but infantry can use houses walls (yeah cavalry too...lol) and other terrains way better.



    All i want to say... look at all races the same please. Because right now there are clearly winners and loosers

    Jonnyman wrote:

    Don't start shouting my army is not being treated fairly yet when we have no lists of items to even compare.
    Sry I dont talk about the future. I talk about the present and it is my opinion which i value highly. Dont you dare to push me into the "flaming corner".

    I never said something about the future all i did was remembering the past


    Translation Team DE

    Product-Search

  • every army says the lores weren't made for them.... probably because the lores were made first, then assigned based on background. So that argument doesn't hold water.

    If the core items cant have anything that would be a weakness in some army.... there would be no items at all.
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • Klexe wrote:

    all i want to say @Kathal
    plz dont let koe be again the "worst spot"
    This discussion thread is not the place to start talking about individual armies. KoE team are hard at work with KoE and we can not reveal what are they are upto but each army is getting the same fair treatment to bring it into line with Second Edition.

    Major reworking, as with all armies, has to wait until each book is rebuilt but just to be clear, each army is being tweaked and updated in the fairest possible manner

    BRB items are generic for all armies for a reason
    http://www.bugmansbrewery.com - The largest most informative Fantasy Dwarf website on the net, covering every dwarfers needs from forum to tactics, balls to ships!

    Advisory Board

    Head of Public Relations

    Bugmans Brewery Owner (Dwarven Holds)

  • One highly subjective question: I suppose enchantments instead of full magic weapons rules out the possibility to buff out non-fighty characters (mages mostly) to decent levels as with the currenty 6 attack sword for example?

    I always liked these sorts of hybrids even if they were almost always a bit subpar. But with some nerfed stat lines, nerfed buff magic and now possibly nerfed magic weapons (at least for them) I fear things like my fighty beast herds shaman general or my dragon dark elf sorceress will never be fielded again. :(

    @Everything else. I'm indifferent tbh. Can't really say anything bad or good before I see the whole thing.
  • Diablo_DF wrote:

    One highly subjective question: I suppose enchantments instead of full magic weapons rules out the possibility to buff out non-fighty characters (mages mostly) to decent levels as with the currenty 6 attack sword for example?
    There is at least one Weapon Enchantment in the BRB, which would fulfil your wish ^^

    Greetings,
    Kathal
    "When four Kings abdicate their thrones, do you really have a Kingdom anymore?"

    I kind have a "blog" now: From Beer and Bretzle vol 2

    ETC 2016 - ID
    ETC 2017 - WDG
    ETC 2018 - ID
  • Wesser wrote:

    Still seems to me that the old issue of Enchants being priced similarly despite some characters getting radically bigger benefits still exist.

    But assuming we can avoid +STR weapons being the standard for enchanting, this is great for enabling wysiwyg models without limiting choice and variance too badly
    No prices are mentioned because none as yet have been set
    http://www.bugmansbrewery.com - The largest most informative Fantasy Dwarf website on the net, covering every dwarfers needs from forum to tactics, balls to ships!

    Advisory Board

    Head of Public Relations

    Bugmans Brewery Owner (Dwarven Holds)

  • This might turn out great or just become kind of confusing. I'm getting a lot of "change for the sake of change" vibes here. I have some questions about these changes;

    Why redesign the whole magic item system if the point is to address specific currently overpowered items? And if that's not the point, what is?

    Isn't this new system more complex than the one we currently have?

    Why should the number of item enchantments depend on the "complexity" of the armies, especially when army complexity is such a shaky concept to begin with?

    Theo
  • Wesser wrote:

    Still seems to me that the old issue of Enchants being priced similarly despite some characters getting radically bigger benefits still exist.
    yes, but most of it will be priced internal to the army book, since that is where a good chunk of the items tailored for the army will come from, so it should be a much smaller delta than trying to price the bluffer's helm for an elf, and an ogre with iron fist :P Instead the pricing will vary between the small handful of combat characters in the book.
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • Wesser wrote:

    Still seems to me that the old issue of Enchants being priced similarly despite some characters getting radically bigger benefits still exist.
    But now you have a secondary pricing tool, the mundane weapon.

    For example, the Razor Edge Enchantment is good for everything, which gives you enough Strength to wound on 3+ (so S5-6 depending on what you want to fight). If you have already that strength value, Paired Weapons, Spears or similar things get interesting too.

    However, at the same time, since you need to pay for your weapon (if you do not want to have a simple Hand Weapon), you have to pay for your mundane weapon. Since the mundane weapon are costed for each Character tier (from combat prowess to utility) differently, the true cost for a full fledge weapon changes between those tiers.

    So basically, a Chaos Lord will pay more bucks for that Enchantment than a Marshall, cause of the different weapon prices of the models (while the Enchantment has the same price).

    I hope, this makes sense ^^

    Greetings,
    Kathal
    "When four Kings abdicate their thrones, do you really have a Kingdom anymore?"

    I kind have a "blog" now: From Beer and Bretzle vol 2

    ETC 2016 - ID
    ETC 2017 - WDG
    ETC 2018 - ID
  • Nicreap wrote:

    Wesser wrote:

    Still seems to me that the old issue of Enchants being priced similarly despite some characters getting radically bigger benefits still exist.
    yes, but most of it will be priced internal to the army book, since that is where a good chunk of the items tailored for the army will come from, so it should be a much smaller delta than trying to price the bluffer's helm for an elf, and an ogre with iron fist :P Instead the pricing will vary between the small handful of combat characters in the book.
    Thought common items would still have a common price? Or does type of weapon or creature type influence it? Or does each army get a different price sheet?

    Hmmm
  • Nicreap wrote:

    Wesser wrote:

    Still seems to me that the old issue of Enchants being priced similarly despite some characters getting radically bigger benefits still exist.
    yes, but most of it will be priced internal to the army book [...]

    This would be a good thing to come out of these changes. For the reason of balance (and the possibility to fluff generic items up for each army with one or two lines of cursive) I was always for moving all items into the army books. Now I'm a bit afraid that not only will items have to be balanced for different base stats in different armies but for different weapons selections as well.
  • Bugman wrote:

    Klexe wrote:

    all i want to say @Kathal
    plz dont let koe be again the "worst spot"
    This discussion thread is not the place to start talking about individual armies. KoE team are hard at work with KoE and we can not reveal what are they are upto but each army is getting the same fair treatment to bring it into line with Second Edition.
    Major reworking, as with all armies, has to wait until each book is rebuilt but just to be clear, each army is being tweaked and updated in the fairest possible manner

    BRB items are generic for all armies for a reason
    Like we had with good KoE leaders before like kratos tulmier pompadore etc. Highly entuastic koe player who worked their bones off.

    In the end 1 guy in RT just said no and removed everything and just on the spot invented new rules which were plain bad.

    Now this didnt happen once.
    It happend 3 times... 3!! In every major update.
    0.11 stomps... trolol
    1.1 Reliquary trolol...
    ....


    You know all i wanted to say is "remember that not every race is the same"!!
    I hope there will be an item which is not useable by infantry and monstrous/cavalry only. Then it would be fair. I will bet 20 bucks there wont be one


    Translation Team DE

    Product-Search

  • Theorox wrote:

    Why redesign the whole magic item system if the point is to address specific currently overpowered items? And if that's not the point, what is?
    Because if you move the more army situational items into the specific army that needs/uses them you can price it properly for that army, and not for everyone else who might break the item.

    So let's say for example that HBE feels the NEED the bluffer's helm and that it enhances the flavor and character of the army. Instead of having to buy it from the core rule book where it is priced off of T6 pharoahs with ward saves using it, the item can be balanced exclusively for elves, and would in theory see a much lower price than what was in the BRB.

    In addition the goal is to help bring back the flavor and feel of armies, and moving to more items in the armybook helps to do that.


    Theorox wrote:

    Isn't this new system more complex than the one we currently have?
    No, you still have magic item, magic armor, magic banner, and the enchanted items and arcane items were merged. other than that is is basically the same. You do get a bit more flexibility on what weapon you enchant take the razor blade. Ogres don't need to take a S weapon because they already have good strength, while HBE may want to put it on a halberd or GW for the boost to S, instead of one army getting great use out of it, and another not getting to use it, each army can tailor it in the manner that best suits them. And since you buy the item you enchant, the S boost for HBE is acounted in the cost of the halberd, and the iron fist awesomness is accounted for in the cost of the iron fist. So it helps to make items from the BRB more balanced across books, and less sucky for one army while good for others.

    It will likely never completely fix it, but the goal is moer options, and moer viable builds.


    Theorox wrote:

    Why should the number of item enchantments depend on the "complexity" of the armies, especially when army complexity is such a shaky concept to begin with?
    I can't answer this one.
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • Wesser wrote:

    Thought common items would still have a common price? Or does type of weapon or creature type influence it? Or does each army get a different price sheet?
    There is a common price, but a lot of armor enchants require specific types of armor to use, so you must buy that armor, and then the enchantment. the same for weapon enchants, the charater must first buy a mundane weapon, and then he must enchant it.

    So while an elf and ogre will both pay 20 points (made this number up) for the razor blade enchantment to their GW, the ogre may have to pay 50 points for that great weapon while the elf only pays 20.

    So the elf gets a GW that ignores armor for 40 points, while the Ogre pays 70 points for it. So the pricing is tied to the army via the cost of armor and the cost of the mundane weapons.
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • Theorox wrote:

    Why redesign the whole magic item system if the point is to address specific currently overpowered items? And if that's not the point, what is?
    The Second Edition is not a simple patch like 1.2 to 1.3. This is a new edition basically, which tries to fix as many fundamental issues there are in the rule book to build a solid foundation for the army book reworks without destroying the whole feeling of the game.

    This starts from simple things like measuring Wheels up to grand scale things like the Magic Phase, Magic Items and Scenarios.

    Since Magic Items have a lot of different problems (not usable items for a lot of armies due to different limitations, awkward design solutions to not create broken combos,...) the question was, if we want to continue with a system like the current one, or create something new.

    Basically a middle ground was chosen, which you can find in the BTS blog.

    I hope, this answers your question. If not, let me know.

    Theorox wrote:

    Isn't this new system more complex than the one we currently have?
    Yes it is (kinda). However, it fixes several problems the current system has, especially Plate Armour armies shred a tear when looking at the Magic Armour items.

    Furthermore, it opens more design space, which is always something nice to have ^^

    (+ it adds more immersion, cause I do not need to feel dumb, that my big old Lord of Chaos with his big badass Axe fields a Sword of Might...)

    Greetings,
    Kathal
    "When four Kings abdicate their thrones, do you really have a Kingdom anymore?"

    I kind have a "blog" now: From Beer and Bretzle vol 2

    ETC 2016 - ID
    ETC 2017 - WDG
    ETC 2018 - ID
  • Klexe wrote:

    I hope there will be an item which is not useable by infantry and monstrous/cavalry only. Then it would be fair. I will bet 20 bucks there wont be one
    you mean like the stalkers standard :P
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.