WDG book 2.0 discussion

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  • Beligua wrote:

    i thought 2.0 will drop soon and them it will be stable for a few years??

    Calisson wrote:

    Ask and you shall get a reply!

    When:
    Gold rules were announced before end of year, that schedule holds. Cross fingers!
    Before that, a pre-release named .205 will be made, that one is imminent.
    Both exact dates being discussed as we type and will be announced very soon.
    As they are not yet decided, the kobold is a liar.

    Content.
    .205 is for most .204, which you can download, except some sentences are made easier to read. AB will only see balance updates. Exact content is progressively shown to team before the release.
    The only difference between .205 and Gold rules will be equivalent to an erratum.

    Stability.
    The Rulebook released in the Gold edition will not change anymore, for many years to come, until we're done with all Full Army Books. The Rulebook will be stable enough for companies to print copies for sale and players to print their own copy of the Pdf.

    Besides the RB, all Army Books will be released in their current Slim state. .205 and Gold will have very little differences compared to .204 if you neglect the small balance adjustments.

    In the years to come, all Slim AB will progressively become Full AB, which comes with an extensive overhaul. See how WDG changes compared to previous WDG: Basically most models can still be played, but they all get new stats and rules.
    Unless they become FAB, AB will only see periodic balance updates.


    We are currently discussing all of the above, to stabilize exact dates and refine content.
    The news should not wait for long.
    Make T9A armies clash again! #BringBackBattlelines

    Hermund Vigerust Endressòn Furu - Savage Sage of the Norse
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  • WDG currently has no unique army trait or theme.

    That will continue to be the case as long as units like Iron Orcs and Demigryph Knights exist, and as long as the army keeps the current designs.

    At best, WDG will become externally competitive and (internally) balanced and be able to do something that other armies can already do.

    With 2.05 we might see design changes that make WDG more unique.
  • Warboss_R'ok wrote:

    WDG currently has no unique army trait or theme.

    That will continue to be the case as long as units like Iron Orcs and Demigryph Knights exist, and as long as the army keeps the current designs.

    This is interesting.

    Let me ask something:

    What is the thing that WotDG previously had that was a unique army trait or theme?
    Iron orcs and knights of the sun griffon have existed for a while, so the existence of these cannot be the problem? Or can it?
    Ask not what the project can do for you, but what you can do for the project :)

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  • Uber Lords and Beating your face in due to no step up would be the ones I imagine.

    WoDG does not need to do something unique (although cmon guys you have to accept Hellmaw is unique out the wazoo) it just needs to beat faces really really well so well infact onus of not having a fair fight should be on the opponent not on WoDG to work hiss rear end to find an engagement they want with low unit count, meh chaff and weakest chaff clearing.
    For example if Iron Orcs should have 0 chance of beating same points of chosen 1 to 1 in a straight up fight. Just like Orc Big Uns having 0 change against Warriors. (No buffs no shooting nos synergies)

    OR

    More focus on the portal mechanic to make them unique. So it is an army mechanic rather than a unit or something.
    I am the fat Turk that infiltrated the Norwegian Druid Caste.

    I would have been better than you if I could roll a 4 on 2D6.

    To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of ELVES.

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  • DanT wrote:

    What is the thing that WotDG previously had that was a unique army trait or theme?
    If we go back to 1.0:

    • Being able to play any close combat style in one way or another. Wanted to play Cav centric list? Jep, gotcha (Knights with Daemonic Weapons and good Marks, Crushers, Cav Lords with good item builds). Wanted to play MMU? Jep, Inspire Greatness and Nine Tailed Banner said hi (both eased the problems of the banner slot for the units). MMU? Battle Shrine. Monster Mash? Chars on Daemonic Mount, Blood Beast (although not that good as it used to be), EDC as one of the best Monsters back than. Flying Circus? Jup, Disc, Dragon, Manticore and Flying Monster, you could play double (real) Chimera and Dragon.
      Just Special deployment and some wonky things like the Centaur list was not playable, and for good reasons, cause those are unique to other armies (BH, DH and SE mainly).
    • Having unit, which actually have a decent shot at beating the other armies dedicated CC units one on one (PPP Warriors, Wrath Chosen, Crusher, Pest/Wrath/Change Knights, Dragon Centaurs and Spear Barbs) while not being lopsided (so not a rofl stomp)
    • Having one of the best customisable Characters in the game while not being broken (good Marks combined with good Mounts combined with actually decent equipment (BRB, thank you) combined with unique Gifts) which were on top of the food chain as other purely dedicated non Monster none utility CC Characters (Blood Dragon Vampire, SE Wild Huntsmen/Blade Dancer/Shifter guy (depending on what exact patch), Mino Lord and KoE Dukes). However, not because of stacking of special rules (that guy only ever had one, at most two) but because of good stat checking mechanics and equipment.
    • Having one of the most fun movement phases
    Those 4 points are why I loved 1.x Warriors. I felt like I had infinite playstyles, they where just focused on the CC aspect (which IS and SHOULD be the main aspect) instead of a more spread out style like other armies have and had.

    If I compare it to the 204 book I see the following:
    • All anvils are gone (no longer Pest Mark, no Trolls)
    • Grinding aspect went down (no longer DW, Wrath, Change or Poison Banner)
    • Most of the CC centric playstyles got gutted (Hero.Hammer, Flying Circus, MSU, Cav centric and MMU (is still somewhat playable, but compared to 1.3 :puke: )). Now the army has what, 1 functioning and one really crippled playstyle left?
    • Characters lost a ton of customisation (no Marks/Gifts for most of them (Barb Chief, Sorcerer and Doomlord), only the Chosen Lord has access to them) BUT the Exalted Herald, which traded customisation in for flexibility.
    • Chaos Lord sucks balls. Like srsly, compare them to any 1.3 pendant and you will just cry. I'm paying MORE points for a WORSE statline and WORSE special rules while also getting WORSE mounts for which I pay MORE points. Heck, even the Doomlord is a bad joke compared to the Chosen Lord with Path of the Fallen Gift (worse statline, no Marks, worse equipment worse special rules).
      I mean, come on guys, srsly? He went from a pretty darn good while pricey choice to the by far worst unit in the whole book. The only reason I would ever touch the guy would be because of my masochism approach regarding the game, or because I want to play the Entropic Aura, which is the only way for that guy to beat any CC guy at all. HbE Spear guy? RIP. Dwarven King? RIP. SE Char (Wild Huntsmen or Blade Dancer)? Another one bites the dust. VC Lord? Lol, even without Blood Dragon Bloodline they beat us by a mile. Heck, even a Mino Lord (which was a quite even fight back than) just one shots the guy, with the best defensive build (aka 1+/4++ with T6). Primal Fury + Battle Focus + Blessed Inscription says hi...
      Heck, if he would be at least CHEAP for what he offers I might think about playing him again, but I can get a full unit of SCORING Wrath Halberd Crusher for one guy (or even starting the second unit if I take anything but a Krakadan). Heck, even a FDA is cheaper than a full fledged guy on a Pony...
    • A crappy movement phase. If you have played 1.0 and 1.3 Warriors and compare them now, it would be the same as reducing the Movement of the KoE Ponies down to 6/12 or Dwarves back to 3/6 and disallow to March with Copters. You just feel crippled and helpless while you watch the enemy doing w/e he wants. That is also the reason, why I'm playing all 4 Irredeemable units, at least I can do something in the movement phase.
    Don't get me wrong, I like the background and everything associated regarding it from the design approach, but putting the whole army book in a hardcore bondage film and than wondering, why people do not like it, welp, looks like that people in charge have actually zero ideas regarding the army (and no, the argument of "but I played a tournament with it" is bullsh!t, how much does five games with the same list says about a WHOLE FREAKING BOOK?!?!).

    Gosh, I could fart on a piece of paper and would get a more coherent army together than the mess the WDG book is atm.

    Greetings,
    Kathal

    Edit says: PS: And as it is with the Brexit and similar decision, turning the time back doesn't work (aka Patch .201 where the book was design wise in a pretty good spot, just the balancing was atrocious)
    "When four Kings abdicate their thrones, do you really have a Kingdom anymore?"

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    The post was edited 1 time, last by Kathal ().

  • That is harsh.

    Points cost adjustment so we beat stuff pts for pts and access to decent chaff clearing will solve a lot of our problems (Again I play almost half the armies with DE being my favorite)

    And there are many options;
    -Lifting of the arbitirary pyro ban (fluff is a bad excuse when I read the book) change with occultism or something.
    -Give a rule called sacrificial lamb where cutting 1 irredemable/fallen unit giving full buff to occultism for the round. Or limiting the number of killed models to 1 no matter what (fluff the souls are already corrupted and dedicated to dark gods yada yada)
    -Cheap terror causers (wretched ones maybe or chimera or something else)
    -Brutal short ranged shooting with no AP. Hell make it 1 shot only. (Horseman, new unit called marauder reavers, lashes causing immidiate panic check etc). Something that deals more dmg when there is less models in the unit
    -Continious moderate aura damage (battle shrine is a good alternative here) or upping the dmg of the portals a lot (D6+2, 2D6, 3d6 s3 etc)
    -Other stuff that, with my limited brain capacity, cannot think of

    +

    Major pts drop on certain units.

    All said and done I still like the book and appreciate the hard work. I am sure .205 will be better.
    I am the fat Turk that infiltrated the Norwegian Druid Caste.

    I would have been better than you if I could roll a 4 on 2D6.

    To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of ELVES.

    Sylvan Elves
    Dread Elves
    Beast Herds
    Daemonic Legions
    Warriors of the Dark Gods
    Storm Cast Eternals (WAIT WHAT?)