It's time for Africa !

    • In the real world, Africa is the biggest source of a lot of minerals in the world, not only gold but also diamonds, aluminium, uranium, and now cobalt, neodymium, graphit, niobium, lithium…
      (Hey, Vermins, this is all for you :D )

      The reason is that it is a very old continent, with erosion going on since billions of years and almost no new mountain chain formation.
      It is that process of erosion and leaching that led to higher mineral concentrations in the rocks, as they were stripped away of the lesser elements that surrounded them, such as clays and silica rocks.
      (Hence, natural fission reactors.)
      (A similar process happened with Australia, by the way.)

      Any thought as to why a fantasy Africa would be so rich in mineral wealth ?
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • I found it, this is where I should have intervened :

      Calisson wrote:

      Comments:Our average vision concentrates on cavalry as the bulk of the army, helped with monstrous things (assuming Cattle and M.Cavalry such as camels) and infantry. Consistent with living in open savannah.
      Nooo-ooo-ooo Calisson dear, when we mean « Monstrous Cavalry », we don't mean « Camels » !!!! :largegrin: I didn't, anyway :D

      Calisson wrote:

      Guerilla is not consistent with fighting in open savannah, my understanding is that we desire the army to be sufficiently mobile to make wide circles around opponents for attacks coming from all directions.
      Here also, you tried to interpret it in another way and then you tried to remove my Skirmishers and Magic Hunters X/ :P
      Aaaaah oooooh !!!

      My opinion is that « Guerilla » means « Guerilla » :thumbsup: hahahaha :saint:
      That's why we have shooty cavarly, skirmishers, hunters and fire brothers

      :pursuit:
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • Additionally,

      Calisson wrote:

      Seriously, for a place like Sahel, it seems hard to move without making a large dust column, let alone to get close without being spotted from afar. Ambush could be considered, but it would not be realistic to make it a predominant tactics, contrary to what we will do for jungle armies.
      I was reading yesterday that the Mossi warriors always traveled in a single file.
      Probably that's how they manage to avoid lifting too much dust.
      Imagine that long line of hundreds of warriors walking like the dwarves in Snow-White :D
      I'm not talking about the cavalry here, but about the skirmishers, scouts and ambushers getting in position before the battle begins, without being noticed by the enemy.
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • Just tagging again everyone that ever wrote anything in this thread :
      @Mad 'At @Irondaemon @Karak Norn Clansman @Arhain @Quidifer @Ferkinason @Autumnus @Kanadian @tulmir @badman341980 @Thorek Ironbrown @Porw @lostminstrel @ferny @Vulgarsty @Scylla @Myrkul @Lord Gnarkill @Squirrelloid @Shlagrabak @aus_lo @kisanis @Scottish Knight @setrius @Calisson @Ghiznuk @Petterwass

      I'd like to suggest we start voting on Vanhu.

      We know from Ninth Scroll 7 that it is a country made of several primitive clans who each have an animal totem with whom they can talk, and that they live in « stone fortresses » (obviously such as that of Great Zimbabwe).
      Their language is based on that of Zimbabwé, just like the name of their ruler, Nyatsimba, has the same name as the most famous king of Monomotapa.

      We have here a greater probability of strange African stuff such as shapeshifters, masks, etc.
      Possible inspiration is Zulu army together with packs of wild animals.

      So, here you are, just fill in the table below.

      Thank you all or, as we also say here : « aw ni che ! »


      Infantry basedx
      Mixed arms/jack of all trades - master of nonex
      Big main block + many support ("deathstar")x
      Monstruos Infantry/cavalry/beast basedx
      Single-model based ("monster mash")x
      Cavalry basedx
      Gunlinex
      Gerilla fighting (ambush, scout etc)x
      Flying circusx
      Avoidancex
      Other, leave commentx



      COMBAT - Continuated damage output ("grinding")x
      COMBAT - First-combat-turn damage capacitiyx
      DEFENSE - Toughnessx
      DEFENSE - Strength in numbers (many low-quality wounds, including raising)x
      DEFENSE - Armourx
      DEFENSE - Avoiding hitsx
      DEFENSE - Special Savesx
      MOBILITY - Speedx
      MOBILITY - Maneuverability (ability to change direction)x
      MOBILITY - Deployment (ambush, scout, vanguard)x
      RANGED - Heavy arms fire (war machines and artillery weapons)x
      RANGED - Small arms fire (lots of low strength shooting models, bows, crossbows etc)x
      RANGED - Maneuverable shootingx
      RANGED - Medium arms fire (Few medium strength shootin models, bombardiers, rotary guns, ignoters etc)x
      RANGED - Offensive magic, smaller damaging spells (Fireball and similar, "Small arms spells")x
      RANGED - Offensive magic, single big devastating spells ("Heavy arms spells")x
      LEADERSHIP - Unit's Ld independence (units are brave when alone)x
      LEADERSHIP - Bubble Ld (units are brave when close to general/BSB)x
      LEADERSHIP - Ignore morale (ITP, unstable etc)x
      SUPPORT - Magic spells (buff/debuff)x
      SUPPORT - Buff wagons, unit-enhancing characters and itemsx
      SUPPORT - Intrinsical inter-unit synergyx
      SUPPORT (friendlies) - Magicx
      SUPPORT - Debuff wagons, unit-de-enhancing characters and itemsx
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • My answers to Vanhu ASAW :


      Infantry based5
      Mixed arms/jack of all trades - master of none3
      Big main block + many support ("deathstar")4
      Monstruos Infantry/cavalry/beast based2
      Single-model based ("monster mash")0
      Cavalry based0
      Gunline0
      Gerilla fighting (ambush, scout etc)4
      Flying circus1
      Avoidance4
      Other, leave commentBeast packs




      COMBAT - Continuated damage output ("grinding")4
      COMBAT - First-combat-turn damage capacitiy4
      DEFENSE - Toughness3
      DEFENSE - Strength in numbers (many low-quality wounds, including raising)4
      DEFENSE - Armour2
      DEFENSE - Avoiding hits3
      DEFENSE - Special Saves4
      MOBILITY - Speed4
      MOBILITY - Maneuverability (ability to change direction)4
      MOBILITY - Deployment (ambush, scout, vanguard)4
      RANGED - Heavy arms fire (war machines and artillery weapons)0
      RANGED - Small arms fire (lots of low strength shooting models, bows, crossbows etc)3
      RANGED - Maneuverable shooting1
      RANGED - Medium arms fire (Few medium strength shootin models, bombardiers, rotary guns, ignoters etc)1
      RANGED - Offensive magic, smaller damaging spells (Fireball and similar, "Small arms spells")1
      RANGED - Offensive magic, single big devastating spells ("Heavy arms spells")3
      LEADERSHIP - Unit's Ld independence (units are brave when alone)5
      LEADERSHIP - Bubble Ld (units are brave when close to general/BSB)3
      LEADERSHIP - Ignore morale (ITP, unstable etc)2
      SUPPORT - Magic spells (buff/debuff)4
      SUPPORT - Buff wagons, unit-enhancing characters and items3
      SUPPORT - Intrinsical inter-unit synergy4
      SUPPORT (friendlies) - Magic4
      SUPPORT - Debuff wagons, unit-de-enhancing characters and items3




      See pictures attached on how I see Vanhu.

      If it was Magic the Gathering, I'd give them colours White and Green.
      Files
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Ghiznuk ().

    • Vanhu Kingdoms of Cattle and Gold: Hilly plateaus, great lakes. Dense population, agriculture, cattle, wild animals. Gold export.

      [i]The greatest of these are the Vanhu, a proud and resourceful nation led by the fierce King Nyatsimba - a rare military leader in a land where most power is held by witchdoctors. The ways of his people are ancient. They comprise traditional tribes as well as spiritual totem“families”. Those born under a particular totem are said to gain the power to converse with the corresponding animal upon their coming of age - I have witnessed the rituals myself. The Vanhu live in stone fortresses, and have established powerful alliances with nearby dwarves, saurians and even traders as far away as Sagarika and Celeda Ablan.[/i]

      Okay, here's what these description suggest to me: the kingdoms' military forces are primarly composed of human infantry using bound spells to represent the powers of the totems, alongside monstrous cavalry (rhino riders!) and low-Disc units of beasts with Impact Hits or Devastating Charge (sanga cattle, see pic below). Most characters are spellcasters. There are possible synergies between human totem followers and beasts, however the totem cults are rival, which must be translated in the gameplay (a unit from cult A can't target a unit of cult B with a buff spell?).
      Since the cattle is a big part of the culture we may have chariots, especially if Koghi doesn't have chariots. Unlike Koghi, artillery is available to deal with targets with would otherwise need far-ranging units (flyers and ambushers) missing for Vanhu. Maybe some large ballistas which are built in peace times to shoot down the megafauna preying on the Kingdoms' cattle.
      At the end of the day, it's a very head-on army like KoE or WotDG - though the roster is completely different, there's not a single knight in shining armour and the characters are really weird :)

      Sanga cattle



      Infantry based3
      Mixed arms/jack of all trades - master of none3
      Big main block + many support ("deathstar")x
      Monstruos Infantry/cavalry/beast based4
      Single-model based ("monster mash")2
      Cavalry based2
      Gunline2
      Gerilla fighting (ambush, scout etc)1
      Flying circus1
      Avoidance1
      Other, leave comment: war beasts5




      COMBAT - Continuated damage output ("grinding")3
      COMBAT - First-combat-turn damage capacitiy5
      DEFENSE - Toughness4
      DEFENSE - Strength in numbers (many low-quality wounds, including raising)4
      DEFENSE - Armour2
      DEFENSE - Avoiding hits1
      DEFENSE - Special Saves1
      MOBILITY - Speed4
      MOBILITY - Maneuverability (ability to change direction)3
      MOBILITY - Deployment (ambush, scout, vanguard)1
      RANGED - Heavy arms fire (war machines and artillery weapons)3
      RANGED - Small arms fire (lots of low strength shooting models, bows, crossbows etc)2
      RANGED - Maneuverable shooting2
      RANGED - Medium arms fire (Few medium strength shootin models, bombardiers, rotary guns, ignoters etc)2
      RANGED - Offensive magic, smaller damaging spells (Fireball and similar, "Small arms spells")4
      RANGED - Offensive magic, single big devastating spells ("Heavy arms spells")4
      LEADERSHIP - Unit's Ld independence (units are brave when alone)2
      LEADERSHIP - Bubble Ld (units are brave when close to general/BSB)4
      LEADERSHIP - Ignore morale (ITP, unstable etc)1
      SUPPORT - Magic spells (buff/debuff)5
      SUPPORT - Buff wagons, unit-enhancing characters and items5
      SUPPORT - Intrinsical inter-unit synergy4
      SUPPORT (friendlies) - Magic4
      SUPPORT - Debuff wagons, unit-de-enhancing characters and items3
    • Hm.

      I'm not sure at all about chariots and artillery.

      Aport from Egypt, no African culture used the wheel.
      Not one.
      And especially not people from Southern and Eastern Africa who remained less developed than Western, because of their isolation and drier climate (or less diverse landscape anyway).
      Southern Africa is the only region of Africa (outside the jungle) where primitive hunter-gatherers societies still exist in the 21st century.

      Also, I don't find artillery for hunting wild beasts to be fitting for a culture of warriors and hunters where personal honour is of great value, possibly more so than in Koghi.


      Thanks for voting, anyway !!! ;)
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • What A General History of Africa has to say on Zimbabwé history :

      Display Spoiler

      The tree savannah of modern Zambezia and Zimbabwe had been long occupied by various tribes of cattle herders and agriculturers, but who never established any State and remained very primitive iron age societies who knew pottery, tool making, smithing, jewelry, weaving, but not much else. The human density remained very low.
      In the 10thcentury, a more elaborate culture started to form, where villages were more organized around a central cattle pen and where established leaders had bigger and more solid houses, built above those of the commoners if there was a slope, and who were able to carve hills in terraces.

      Around the year 1300, an actual State was established for the first time in that region, around Great Zimbabwe.

      Some say (the « religious hypothesis ») the Shona came from another country, introduced advanced mining techniques and brought their own ancestors cult for whom they built shrines. They were able to create a confederation of different tribes who had to pay them tribute in gold and ivory, that they then sold to the Arab traders on the coast. Central power was in the hands of chiefs and priests.

      Others say (the « commercial » hypothesis) that the State was established because of the intensification of trade. In Zimbabwe were found glass from Syria, pottery from Persia and China, many items of copper and gold from the local mines. The Arab trading city of Kilwa gained a lot of prosperity in that period. The great wealth of the rulers would have then led to a great distribution of wealth through ceremonies, sacrifices and public works, which would have in turn caused a greater concentration of people in one hub and the great labour force needed for the building of the Great Zimbabwe stone fortress.

      Whatever the truth, the region went through a higher level development in the 13thcentury thanks to trade and a higher concentration of political power. Human density rose tremendously in some parts of the country, agriculture was improved and done more intensively. The population lived in smaller semi-nomad villages who changed place with the generations and the rythms of agriculture and cattle herding. It is probable that around centres such as Great Zimbabwé, the land was fast depleted of natural ressources such as wood, grass and arable soil, just as it was with every young civilization. Those villages were mostly self-sufficient and were not concerned by trade.

      The dimensions of Great Zimbabwé are very impressive. The walls are 6 m wide and 7 m high. The site is divided between an « Acropolis » on top of the hill and a « Great Enclosure » in the valley below. Different buildings and enclosures are connected by other walls. In between the monuments were villages of simple houses. All in all though, the whole general architecture of the complex is directly inspired from that of the traditional villages of the region, except stone was used instead of clay. Other such stone constructions, though not as big, abound in the region (about 150), with also one to five enclosures. The only true mystery is the huge conical tower on one corner of the complex, that is a truly unique structure which can't be compared to anything. And, of course, its size.

      The kings of Zimbabwe probably had a monopoly on foreign trade, because of their position in a society which is still a traditional one. It was also profitable for foreign traders to support the ruler in that rôle of « chief merchant » as it enusured a better security and more stability. The gold mines were probably under the exclusive control of the king, too. There was probably no permanent Arab neighbourhood in the town, and trade activity must have been seasonal.

      The stone encampmants of Zimbabwe were all built between the 14thand the 16th century. They are rather small because the population was small as well. The walls were probably erected by temporary labourers, gathered from surrounding villages and communities in the savannah. The items found in the stone ruins, that include luxury products from other continents, have never been found in any smaller clay village.

      In one such fortress, there was a great hall with three rooms : the first one could seat a great number of people, the second one included a single throne, the third contained special objects, including a big stone monolith on a base. This was surely the house of a great priest. From this, one could infer that the whole stone fortress was the « palace » of this priest-king, and that the other stone fortresses interspersed in the region could be such palaces or religious places, forming a network that could have been the political structure of the Great Zimbabwe. This gives the impression of a extremely powerful and hegemonic religious authority, exercing its influence over a dispersed countryside population.


      With king Nyatsimba Mutota, a new entity is formed, the Monomotapa (or Mutapa empire), which gradually establishes a true feudal society and will be taken over by the Portuguese who will, starting in 1629, convert the emperor to Christianity and transform Monomotapa's feudal society into a latifundian one, integrated to global capitalism, where the local Portuguese and their metis descendants will be the new ruling class.

      At the time of the T9A timeline though, king Nyatsimba's just ascended to the throne in a kind of power vacuum and society is getting reorganized, with a lot of traditional customs remaining, a still semi-nomad society at large, and a very fragmented country made up of many smaller kingdoms and countryside communities, centred on their own local Mwari priest, probably evolving towards some kind of confederation, but feudalism is something largely unheard of, apart from the tribute local people would give to their local priest ruler.

      To be noted, the Shona society of the 16th century has really not much to do with the later Zulu warrior society, although they kind of share the same environment and way of life, and there are a lot of common elements in their cultures.

      My opinion is that we are here more free to make up something fun and fantasy, as we already have a feudal empire with Koghi. I really wish this Vanhu to be our high fantasy « savannah totem and nature spirits warriors ».
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • @Calisson, @Calisson, @Calisson, look, I found a solution for your Bonnicon !

      Even though I find the idea very original and amusing, I still cannot picture an army of proud Koghi warriors mounted a unit whose special power activates only when it flees. Not mentioning the association with poo.
      Moreover, that special rule is unusable as soon as the Emperor is around, since they become Fearless. And if the Emperor is mounted on a Gigantic Beast, his Commanding Presence is a 36″ circle, which is pretty wide (though it'd be a good combo with the AutoRally of the Griot).


      So, my suggestion is, instead, Let's keep the Fire-Farting Beast, but put it instead in the Vermin Anteaters army !!


      There, what'd you think of it ?
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • Ghiznuk wrote:

      @Calisson, @Calisson, @Calisson, look, I found a solution for your Bonnicon !
      Let's keep the Fire-Farting Beast, but put it instead in the Vermin Anteaters army !!
      :thumbup: I was starting to think the same, you nailed the perfect army to give it to.

      -=-=-
      Also, I was thinking about the Palanquin to be more fitting for Vanhu than for Koghi. Opinion?

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • Hurray !

      Palanquin………

      I like the Palanquin in Koghi because it is the only possibility to have a character join an Infantry unit and still « ride » something, as Horses mismatch and the other beasts will have bases that match the Horses ones.

      Also it fits the idea of the supreme ruler.

      In Vanhu… I don't really see the warchiefs of Vanhu be carried by other warriors nor slaves, but i'd find it cool for their wizard priests.
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • VANHU ASAW:

      OK, we have 4 replies, and more than a week since last reply.
      Here is the result.

      Playstyles

      4.5Infantry based
      3.7Big main block + many support ("deathstar")
      3.3Guerilla fighting (ambush, scout etc)
      3.0Avoidance
      2.8Mixed arms/jack of all trades - master of none
      2.8Monstruous Infantry/cavalry/beast based
      2.0Single-model based ("monster mash")
      1.5Gunline
      0.5Cavalry based
      0.5Flying circus

      Obviously Infantry is king, using Deathstar, Guerrilla and Avoidance
      On the weaknesses, there is no flyer, no non-monstrous cavalry, little gunfire, not too many monsters.
      The closest to this is BH. We will need to make sure that the playstyles are different. This pleads for no chariot, and maybe scout rather than ambush.
      ASAW


      4.3COMBAT - First-combat-turn damage capacitiy
      4.3DEFENSE - Strength in numbers (many low-quality wounds, including raising)
      4.3LEADERSHIP - Bubble Ld (units are brave when close to general/BSB)
      4.3SUPPORT - Magic spells (buff/debuff)
      4.0MOBILITY - Speed
      3.8MOBILITY - Maneuverability (ability to change direction)
      3.8SUPPORT - Buff wagons, unit-enhancing characters and items
      3.8SUPPORT (friendlies) - Magic
      3.5COMBAT - Continuated damage output ("grinding")
      3.5SUPPORT - Intrinsical inter-unit synergy
      3.3LEADERSHIP - Unit's Ld independence (units are brave when alone)
      3.0DEFENSE - Toughness
      3.0MOBILITY - Deployment (ambush, scout, vanguard)
      3.0RANGED - Offensive magic, smaller damaging spells (Fireball and similar, "Small arms spells")
      2.8RANGED - Offensive magic, single big devastating spells ("Heavy arms spells")
      2.5DEFENSE - Special Saves
      2.5RANGED - Small arms fire (lots of low strength shooting models, bows, crossbows etc)
      2.5SUPPORT - Debuff wagons, unit-de-enhancing characters and items
      2.0DEFENSE - Avoiding hits
      1.8DEFENSE - Armour
      1.8RANGED - Maneuverable shooting
      1.3RANGED - Medium arms fire (Few medium strength shootin models, bombardiers, rotary guns, ignoters etc)
      1.0RANGED - Heavy arms fire (war machines and artillery weapons)
      1.0LEADERSHIP - Ignore morale (ITP, unstable etc)

      Shooting is heavily disliked. We're really talking about a pure melee army.

      The real uniqueness of the army is the general use of support. A lot of magic support, unit synergies, there is no other army which wants so madly support, for the sake of melee combat.
      Besides, the army is a mobile one, which, for infantry, means a lot of deployment mobility such as scouting and vanguard. I'd rather avoid ambush and leave that to BH.

      -=-=-
      Next thing, I will start a thread about Vanhu, as I did with Koghi, listing a lot of surrounding concepts expressed in the current thread.
      Here:
      Vanhu Kingdoms

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • New

      About the working procedure :

      Calisson wrote:

      The principle I adopted so far was that as long as two persons agreed, that was a green light.


      When the two of us discuss with little other's inputs, we can adopt
      everything we can agree on, without waiting for a hypothetic community
      approval. Where we do not agree, we need to negotiate around our
      disagreements, and sometimes we cannot settle.
      When a third person asks something, if it was an argument you already made against me, I accept it.
      Reversely, if that person makes an argument similar to what I pushed against you, I consider this to be a tie breaker.
      Otherwise, if this is a new argument and I agree with, why would we need to wait?
      That's being a bit automatic.

      Of course, this is a forum, we are all volunteers and geeks with different agendas, I have no way to force someone to answer if he doesn't give one after a couple of days, there is not even a way to know for sure who reads the posts in our project threads.

      HOWEVER, I think you can always assume that people who have been most active during the last couple of days at any given time are part of the discussion. If, after a few days, they do not participate anymore, that means they are probably (at least temporarily) out of it. In that case where we notice that more than 2 or 3 people participate, we should at least take into account the voice of a majority of the participants. Also, the opinion of someone who's just joined the project, reacting for the first time to a discussion that we have been having for weeks or months, should not be given the same weight as yours or mine, even though it can still be taken as an indication.

      More specificially speaking also, the voice of some key people should be weighted more than others. If someone like Scottish Knight or Giladis says something for or against such or such element, this has to be taken as a bigger « truth » because in the end he's part of the people who validate what we are creating.

      Also, I'd like to think that since it was agreed that i was project leader, I'd rather be consulted before any important decision or change, or that I'd have the right to say « pause » when I feel we need to pause.
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • New

      It seems so far very similar to BH, so my initial reaction is that you should consider doing it (as a first step) as an auxiliary list for BH. Starting like that would also probably increase the chance of the list being adopted or at least featured in T9A scroll.

      Problem is I see very few unit entries that could be used for both BH and this army. Rules-wise I'd see no problem, a unit with the same stats as a Wildhorn herd could work as a core unit for this army. Problem is fluff-wise.
      Second T9A player in West Africa