Dispatches from the front V: Drill Sergeants Update

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

Wondering how the new magic phase feels like? Try it yourself! The Behind The Scenes blog gives you enough to playtest it, including spells of four paths of magic, all hereditary spells and the Dwarven runes!

  • Dispatches from the front V: Drill Sergeants Update

    REMINDER!!!

    Before we start, a quick reminder to everyone to enter the battle report competition here:

    Competition time!


    As those that have been following these disptaches carefully will know, the support and orders rules for our beloved Empire have been tweaked. These are the core rules that make us the army we are and we know that many of you felt they were lacking. We have listened to all the discussions around this topic and updated the rules accordingly.

    The troops have been called in for winter training and the Drill Sergeants have been given new training manuals. The biggest changes have required our handgunners and crossbowmen to spend extra hours in the freezing cold drill square, whilst the rag tag bands of militia have not yet been seen. There are whispers that this drunken rabble have been banned from the training grounds after one too many incidents over the years, but these could just be rumours..

    What this all means on the table is the following:

    Orders

    Display Spoiler

    A character with Orders may give a single Order to a Parent or Support Unit within 6". A General with this rule may instead give a single Order to a friendly Parent or Support Unit within 12". Orders are given at the start of each friendly Player Turn. The effects of Orders apply immediately to the target unit and last until the end of the next Player Turn. A unit cannot receive the same order more than once during the same turn. The available Orders are listed below:

    • On The Double! The target unit gains +1 Advance Rate and +4 March Rate.
    • Steady, Men! The target unit may roll an additional D6 when taking Discipline Tests and discard the highest roll. A unit that receives this Order and passes a Rally test doesn’t become Disoriented and the Reform that is made after Rallying doesn’t prevent the unit from moving further nor shooting (but it still counts as having moved for shooting purposes).
    • Ready! Aim! Fire! The target unit gains Accurate.
    • Brace For Impact! The target unit gains Long Reach




    State Militia

    Display Spoiler
    State Militia are losing the support unit rule. This is to stop unintended use of skirmishing pistol Militia. However, they will be seeing a considerable points reduction as a result of this.


    New Banner

    Display Spoiler
    We have a new banner called the Banner of Unity that can only be taken by parent units. The exact mechanism of this is still being finalised, but it will either allow us to duplicate one order between parent and support or allow a second order to be given to a support unit where the parent unit with this banner is targeted.


    Support Rules

    Display Spoiler

    Units within 6” of at least one Parent Unit gain Long Reach and may use Shooting Attacks from the 3rd rank (in addition to the 1st and 2nd). If the Supporting Unit has at least one Full Rank, it counts as having the same number of Full Ranks as a Parent Unit within 6" for Steadfast purposes.

    During the opponent's Assault Phase, Support units may perform one of the following action:

    1. Immediately after a Parent Unit within 6" choses a Charge Reaction, the Support Unit may Shoot as if it were the target of the Charge. Apply all usual restrictions for a Shoot Charge Reaction.
    2. Immediately after all enemy units have completed their Charge Moves, Supporting Units within 6” of a Parent Unit that was Charged in this phase may counter charge. To do so, choose one enemy unit that Charged the Parent Unit and declare a Charge with the Support Unit. Apply all usual rules for Charging for this out of sequence Charge (such as Line of Sight, Front Arc, must roll Charge Range, max one Wheel, etc…). When calculating Combat Resolution in the following Melee Phase, combine the Rank Bonus of both the Parent Unit and up to one Support Unit that performed a successful counter charge (following all normal restrictions), up to maximum of +6.



    DISCLAIMER!
    All of these changes are still subject to change. Yes, the RT has approved it, but it still has multiple steps to pass through. First, it must go through playtesting, and if anything is flagged as broken, or overpowered, or underpowered, we will go back in and fix it. The end result should be a book that is playable, and expands the options currently available.

    Additionally! There are no points yet, points won't be truly final until after all the books have been tested and the balance team can assess the game as a whole. So everything we propose to you will be without points. We know that pricing makes and breaks units. We need to trust the BLTto do their job, they will have internal testing to help provide feedback, and then then 2.0 beta for you guys to provide feedback as well.

    Playtester

    EoS Community Support


    Best in Race: Empire of Sonnstahl - Cardiff GT 2016: Dawn of a New Age 2016: Reading Warfare 2016: The England Championships 2017
    Team Wales ETC 2017 - Beast Herds
    Team Scotland ETC 2018 - Captain

    Twitter - @Fthunder89
  • is long reach the new name for fight in extra rank? Or does this add range to shooting?

    Or did the cc orders get a hefty nerf?
    And accurate ? This is the great thing?

    Did HbE steal all the good things for their seaguard? Their rule for cover fire is a lot better than eos rules.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by berti ().

  • Long reach is fight in extra rank.

    Really? A conditional stand and shoot rule is better than being able to fire in 3 ranks with S4 ranged weapons and not suffer long range penalties.... ?(

    Playtester

    EoS Community Support


    Best in Race: Empire of Sonnstahl - Cardiff GT 2016: Dawn of a New Age 2016: Reading Warfare 2016: The England Championships 2017
    Team Wales ETC 2017 - Beast Herds
    Team Scotland ETC 2018 - Captain

    Twitter - @Fthunder89
  • With 12 inch range for all elfen units...from 3 ranks without penalty for stand and shoot...yes this ruling is way better because not only for parent unit but for most in the book. Has just to be within 12 inch

    It is fine to be able to shoot from 3 ranks when in range of a parent unit.
    Added range was fine in early turns. Accurate doesn t help handguns early. But increases damage a bit later on.

    Shooting from 3 ranks helps with needed space. About 2 inch less wide. But it depends on the cost of the units if it is realy so helpful. Shooting units that may not move before shooting are still bad and easy to outmanouvre.
  • Ready aim fire:
    This change seems logical for me. I think the 6" addition range, was really powerful in my opinion, i think even maybe more than accurate. But do not really feat with the fluff aspect. Dont see how an order could improve the range.
    So i am happy with this.. even if i will really miss my handgun shooting elves archer.. i will consider take only crossbow now.

    Long reach:
    Would help us to take more dense formation...
    But i am not convinced, first we could get steadfast, so we dont need rank; and second for flavour i liked the look of the light infantry on 2 rank. And the constraint of beeing wide, was interesting for the tactical aspect of the game.
    I think i would prefer have to keep the 2 rank formation, and get the S&Shoot reaction increase at 12" from a parent unit.

    Banner of unity:
    I dont really understand the rules, but getting a banner about order, is a really great idea :) I hope it will be a 0,2 banner :p
    cas-p.net / graphic & web designer.
    SE - VS - O&G - EoS / 9th age player.
  • Very fine tweaks. Not much but some. 3 rows of habdgunners are going to be the new thing. (almost my idea).
    The range of the orders is still a bit too small. whatever the banner is going to do it Should propably just be the standard rule.
    Love the acccurate order as it can be given in the first turns and then u can switch to other orders.
    and I still believe; Light infantry should fight and shoot in 3 ranks, Imperial Guards should have weaponmaster and both parent and support, and that halbardiers should wear heavy armor. For Sunna and the Emperor!!
  • For a Moment i was really excited that there might be drill sergeants yelling orders as Champion Upgrades.

    Overall I like the changes a lot and will try to figure out how to best implement them. The changes to the support rules are amazeballs.

    Without an Order three rank fire close to the parent is great. Will try 4x3 5x3 and 6x3 with xbows and handgunners.

    Thanks for sharing and keep up the good work.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Jackginger ().

  • Support units within 6" of a parent unit may fire in 3 ranks and use supporting stand and shoot...
    Unit of Imperial Guard flanked by 2 units of 15 handgunners and a great tactician in the imperial guard to give accurate to both units.
    15 S4 AP1 hits every turn and when enemy charges the imperial guard you get extra 10 S4 AP1 hits... 25 S4 AP1 hits if the enemy somehow avoids getting shot at for more than 1 round.

    Edit: Oh wait -1 to hit for stand and shoot. Darn so not 10 stand and shoot hits.
    It's okay, it has frenzy.

    Just Flank It © KoE - Tactics 101

    Painting and maybe other stuff in the future

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Jomppexx ().

  • +1 for happy with the drill sergeants with orders. It helps a lot, but sad that they left the 6" orders on none generals, it is to short for an army with lots of units.

    We still suffer a penalty for stand and shoot support action, the hb elf rule is alot stronger. But honestly I love the opening of the first Lord of the rings movie so I suppose they can have it.

    Things we don't know yet includes but isent limited to.
    How stand and shoot ends up working.
    How EoS handguns end up
    Pricing of Militia with pistols
    Pricing of Handgunners
    Pricing on orders sergeants

    Some math based on hypothetical thinking.
    15 Handgunners with sergeant for the price of around 200pts. Stand and shoot in 3 ranks support. 15 shots hitting on 6, that is 2.5 hits, wounding on 4s that is 1.25 wounds.... OK that dos not work. With accurate, that is 2.5 wounds. Still kind of pointless.

    Another massive problem is the Los of a Handgunners unit. The parent unit blocks Los so if you have the support unit standing some 5" back from the Frontline so they themselves will not be the charge target, this causes huge problems for tactics. Stand and shoot hitting on

    At this point It would be really nice to hear from some of the glorious playtesters @Fthunder how did you use support Handgunners? Are they worth it now?
  • Jomppexx wrote:

    Support units within 6" of a parent unit may fire in 3 ranks and use supporting stand and shoot...
    Unit of Imperial Guard flanked by 2 units of 15 handgunners and a great tactician in the imperial guard to give accurate to both units.
    15 S4 AP1 hits every turn and when enemy charges the imperial guard you get extra 10 S4 AP1 hits... 25 S4 AP1 hits if the enemy somehow avoids getting shot at for more than 1 round.
    the range on Handgunners are a problem, if you have the support unit pulled back from the absolute front so they don't become a target for charges, the 24" range becomes a problem. Also the Los blocking of the parent unit is a problem in alot of situations. I find positioning to be very hard when trying to use Handgunners.
  • Issue with shooty suport is in many cases, that you can´t afford just to stand still and wait for the oponent to come. So you have to move, propably the support unit too, because else there are issues with line of sight and cover. 6" is realy short, when your unit should not be exposed to CC.
    Seaguard can stand decent in CC beeing a hybrid unit, but our shooters are pure shooters that die to litterally everything in CC and on range.

    Militia beeing no support unit any longer is sad, but not the biggest loss. By to bowmilitia lungering beetween my CC units or behind them to give the mage a secure place, increasing range of bow shooting, but this is a minor loss.

    I like the 3 ranks shooting, but you have to stay in range of the parent unit to do this. In my games I never manage to keep them there, because I try to use the movement phase to give my oponent something to react to in his turn, rather than stand still and wait for the impact.
    And there are scenarios too, that I try to win. So either you ignore the 3 rank shooting, because you will loose it when the parent unit walks out of the 6" and reforming means you get this stupid unwieldly penalty on top of movement penalty, or you just have less shooting.
  • Before a false rumour spreads I DONT think there are Order giving sergeants i just hoped for them. Nothing in the dispatch on that though.

    Well the seaguard rule IS better, but they pay for it big time and it is on one unit. We can combine lots of different units with the detachment rules.

    Also S 4 shooting from three ranks with accurate on 30 inch xbows. I would love it but fear we wont get it.
  • Do the new rules allow for 4 ranks of attacks on support units? One stack of Long Reach from being a support unit within 6’’ of a parent unit and then an additional stack of Long Reach via an Order. Although not extremely dangerous on a 20 men block, it does add 10 extra attacks with halberds for example.

    Still handgunners will be defensive because they are still unwieldy (I presume). So going with those as support, we need to bring some warmachines to force enemies to come closer!

    With shooting in 3 ranks, we can deploy larger units of ranged support, who have a higher chance of sticking after combat. So charging the support handgunners and overrun became less of a sure thing for the enemy. Now the enemy has a greater risk of staying put and getting a counter charge by the parent unit. If they instead charge the parent unit, they will get more shots in their face than before. If they do not engage, they suffer shots in our shooting phase.

    As for the banner. I like the idea! I feel it would best, if it allowed the order given to the parent unit to also affect a single support unit within 6’’ - and thereby extending our order reach.

    On the other hand, allowing the character to issue a second order to a support unit within range allows for optimal use of orders (long reach on the parent block and accurate on the support handgunners).

    Both have their pro’s and con’s.
  • Seaguard rule can be on as many seaguard units as the HbE player wishes to play. He even don´t need some parent units for it to work, because they may stand and shoot for nearly everything in their army. In a 12" area around them. And without stand and shoot penalty.

    So they did not only steal empire order, but took away the limitations and expenaded the area a lot. And in addition they stole the dwarfen special rule for having no S&S penalty.

    We have exactly 2 units that can act as support now. Heavy infantry in min. unit size with different weapons and light infantry with different weapons. And we need either imperial guard or heavy infantry bigger than min size for the parent/support rule to work at all.

    Don´t get me wrong. I like the order system and the parent supprt rules in general. But regarding to the shooty units, they are very unimpressive as long as they suffer stand and shoot penalty when parent unit is charged.
    Adding range was a nice thing to make handguns viable. Not beeing able to shoot in first turn, and getting huge penalty for even normal reforms is nothing that makes them worth been taken.

    Propably it would be great to have 6 orders. 2 shooty orders, 2 CC orders, and 2 that are orders affecting parent and support unit at the same moment (like the Leadership and movement order). Something for the total rework of the book to think about it.
  • I disagree. The rules are pretty juicy and add lots of elements to your battle plan.

    15-20 handgunners/xbows close by a unit of 30-40 spears/halberds if played well are pretty strong. Shoot the enemy while he advances. The order system offers lots of versatility to bring the pain to the enemy or prepare for him to charge. If placed well you get a rather good s&s reaction OR you prepare a flank charge by tilting your parent unit properly to open the flank then run in with your handgunners who add 15 S3 attacks a flank charge and another 2 CR for their ranks adding up to amazing static CR.

    We just have to learn to play better.

    In the hands of skilled players the detachment system will very soon be called broken.
  • Fine change, new banner will be great and shooting from 3rd rank also help.

    We should wait for new rule for mundane shooting weapons, but now accurate give more for crossbow than handgun. It can be decisive for using light infantry.

    We still don't have any order for shooting in late game (close range or weak LoS). It will be fine to have order that take away penalty for s&s. It will cost us one order, when we probably prefer to use fier and steady order.

    Otherwise should give us any order for ignoring blocking LoS/cover from shooting above parent unit.

    Any new order for cc could be good to compete with shooting orders.

    Last thing. Artificer still have order in 2.0?
  • the banner should expand order to ALL support units. that way we can share on the double order and move Together. Heck that Should be a standard rule.
    The banner would be better suited to function like a hold stone. or be renamed signal flags that extend order 30".
    So that a unit can work independently to guard a flank.

    There should be a drill seargant character. With abilities based on the general.
    and I still believe; Light infantry should fight and shoot in 3 ranks, Imperial Guards should have weaponmaster and both parent and support, and that halbardiers should wear heavy armor. For Sunna and the Emperor!!

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Smythen ().

  • Oh the order and support system works for me....the current one too.

    For shooters only via getting them shooting in first turn (making handguns viable) and some bigger short range later on, but this is mostly the moment I use all y orders for the CC units. Because I try to bring them to CC or at least in positions to get the scenarios. And then a Ld with 3 dices or a fight in extra rank helps more and my unwieldly shooters don´t march forward to stay in range. So the benefit of the support rules are lost in later turns.
    It works fine for CC support units.