Dispatches from the front V: Drill Sergeants Update

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  • AndersN wrote:

    Klexe wrote:

    I use my crossbow peasants on the flank next to the board edge or right in the middle of my army.
    As they are just weaker EoS light infantry and I am still happy with them deleting dreadmills Phoenix and other nasty t5 stuff left right and center I am happy to use EoS light infantry as soon as I get my EoS army.

    For me the shot in extra rank is a huuuge

    Having 2 units of 15 guys right now = 8 wide = 16 wide for both.
    Now I only need 10 wide for EoS. That is a reduction of 37.5%!!! That is plain awesome.

    Better movement.
    Better firing arcs.
    Better ability to move units around them. Etc pp
    Can it be true that you don't actually have an EoS army, haven't played the army and haven't tried light infantry, e.g. in a tournament?
    Never said I have a an EoS army.
    Always said that my army is in the work.

    Always said I compare the new rules to my KoE peasants crossbows.
    Which are 1:1 the same

    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”
    Benjamin Franklin


  • Honestly, cool with another EoS player.

    I was a bit surprised though, you must be very dedicated to the project, considering the volume of posts you made, sort of making the impression that you knew from experience how the army played or how its units performed.
    Apart from how crossbowmen do in KoE or basic math isolated theoretical instances.
    Garm glammer ved Gnipahulen!

    Mairzy doats and dozy doats and liddle lamzy divey. A kiddley divey too, wooden shoe.
  • As I play combined arms KoE and HBE before I exactly know how EoS combined arms will be played.

    I also played against many many people.


    And yeah as being in top 10 worldwide of all posters I even a decent knowledge of any good race

    (really.... I can't stand "bad" races like demons chaos etc... Uragh)

    But mostly I just take KoE crossbowmen.

    They are 1:1 exakt the same as light infantry.


    My current list:


    Display Spoiler


    ++ Kingdom of Equitaine (BS2.0 Kingdom of Equitaine) [4498pts] ++

    + Characters +

    Damsel [650pts]: 3x Add up to 3 Learned Spells, May become a Wizard Master, Shamanism, Unicorn
    . Army General
    . . The Blessing: Favour of the Grail
    . Magic Items: Book of Arcane Power, Talisman of Roland, Wafers of Penitence - Damsel Only

    Paladin [395pts]: Barded Warhorse, Daring, Grail Oath - Paladin
    . Battle Standard Bearer
    . . Battle Standard Bearer: War Standard
    . Magic Items: Hardened Shield, Hero's Sword, Lucky Charm

    + Core +

    Knights of the Realm [324pts]: 6x Knight of the Realm
    . Musician
    . Standard Bearer: Gleaming Icon, Veteran Standard

    Peasant Bowmen [200pts]: Musician, 10x Peasant Bowman, Replace Longbow with Crossbow

    Peasant Bowmen [200pts]: Musician, 10x Peasant Bowman, Replace Longbow with Crossbow

    Peasant Levy [444pts]: Champion, Musician, 53x Peasant Levy, Spears, Standard Bearer

    + Special +

    Knights of the Grail [770pts]: 8x Knight of the Grail
    . Champion
    . Musician
    . Standard Bearer: Rending Banner

    Sacred reliquary [260pts]

    Siege War Machine [280pts]: Trebuchet

    Siege War Machine [280pts]: Trebuchet

    Yeoman Outriders [110pts]: Replace Bow with Throwing Weapons, 5x Yeoman Outrider

    Yeoman Outriders [110pts]: Replace Bow with Throwing Weapons, 5x Yeoman Outrider

    + Airbourne Gallantry +

    Pegasus Knights [475pts]: 3x Pegasus Knight, Skirmish, Vanguard
    . Standard Bearer: Banner of Discipline

    ++ Total: [4498pts] ++

    Created with BattleScribe


    So thoughts on this??
    • We have LOW points in character. 1 heavy wizard. Can be traded 1:1 with EoS.
    • We have 1 core big infantry = heavy infantry. The same
    • 1 core knight block = can be the same but as EoS I would prefer militia
    • 2x crossbows = same as light infantry. Light infantry is better
    • Big fat deathstar block grails with all heroes = imperial guard with both marshal bsb
    • Double WM = the same
    • Pegasus = reiters
    • Reliquary = buffwagon



    So yeah it is almost the same but if I would play a EoS list it would be stronger as the characters give extra orders and I get other stuff.

    While I get less charge dmg output but more grind and hold

    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”
    Benjamin Franklin


  • Klexe wrote:

    I also played against many many people.



    And yeah as being in top 10 worldwide of all posters I even a decent knowledge of any good race


    So thoughts on this??
    • We have 1 core big infantry = heavy infantry. The same
    • 1 core knight block = can be the same but as EoS I would prefer militia
    • Big fat deathstar block grails with all heroes = imperial guard with both marshal bsb
    • Double WM = the same
    • Pegasus = reiters

    So yeah it is almost the same but if I would play a EoS list it would be stronger as the characters give extra orders and I get other stuff.

    While I get less charge dmg output but more grind and hold
    Super biased EoS player.
  • umbranar wrote:

    I think a lot of players are judging the changes wrongly since the public only sees them in a bubble, lacking the possibility to see the changes in the bigger picture because the bigger picture is not spoiled yet. There still has to be the public testing and afterwards, when the 2.0 rules are set in stone, the army book revamps.
    We can only judge with the facts we know now. So this is rather goofy, if I may be so bold. If people/gamers were overwhelmingly full of praises and joy, wouldn´t that be most premature, cause we "are judging the changes wrongly since the public only sees them in a bubble, lacking the possibility to see the changes in the bigger picture because the bigger picture is not spoiled yet".


    So that´s (if this is true) highly unfair then (to jugde about present jugdements :) )...and then perhaps such nice pre-info posts are pointless .
    Veteran of the Chaff Wars
  • DanT wrote:

    Bloody MIsfire wrote:

    The thing is that for each update we're told "Sure there might be internal problems in EoS, but for now lets focus on the core rules and then we can look upon the army books next time. This approach makes sense of course, but due to the constant changes in the core rules it de facto means that even easy-to-implement fixes are stalled and the book continues to be in imbalance.
    I totally understand that we cannot have major changes that might have consequences that we didn't foresee. But a lot of the most popular changes and fixes proprosed on this board are surely so minor that we could in fact implement them without any negative consequences. So why don't we?
    The task teams had strict limits.In fact, I think the process as originally envisaged was only to make the army books work with the core rules changes, but then it was decided to tweak the books a little at the same time.

    My default approach is to play by the rules (the spirit as much as the letter), because in my experience the outcome is better that way.
    An alternative approach would have been to demand special treatment for EoS. Maybe that would have been better... :/
    Na, you did the right I think...it is just, that exspectations were high (or at least higher) then what could be done (especially regarding the long awaited improvements for light infantry and e.g. the rocket launcher...those elements on the shelfs for so long). Most of us are well aware, that we don´t should exspect special tweeks , contradicting basic rules . But then again I see units like Ogre Bomardiers, who "break" basic mechanics without any prerequisitions and I wonder, why one is not that consequent in general.
    And improving our units, here light infantry, through prerequisitions (orders = needs marshalls, needs to be around 6 inches) and battalion rules (needs to be around 6 inches of a parent unit = needs parent unit) isn´t such a breaking of basic game mechanics like a free special rule (without prerequisitions). And our (most of them) suggestions all required such prerequisitions..like now, just altered ones.

    E.g. the wish, that our light infantry is able to shoot through parent units (e.g. when around 6 inches) and/or free reform without penalty (e.g. if the unit has a musician) WHEN around a parent unit.). Cause this way one of the severe weanesses of light infantry could be adressed...note: units of light Infantry who are not around parent units, would not benefit from that (so the unit itself doesn`t has any specialrules per se...it is just meant to improve the battalion concept)
    Orders giving accurate or +6 inches reach? Why couldn´t the order be: either accurate OR +6 inches reach ?

    All of those still need prerequisitions and are thus not for "free"/unit special rule.
    Veteran of the Chaff Wars
  • Phosphorus wrote:

    umbranar wrote:

    I think a lot of players are judging the changes wrongly since the public only sees them in a bubble, lacking the possibility to see the changes in the bigger picture because the bigger picture is not spoiled yet. There still has to be the public testing and afterwards, when the 2.0 rules are set in stone, the army book revamps.
    We can only judge with the facts we know now. So this is rather goofy, if I may be so bold. If people/gamers were overwhelmingly full of praises and joy, wouldn´t that be most premature, cause we "are judging the changes wrongly since the public only sees them in a bubble, lacking the possibility to see the changes in the bigger picture because the bigger picture is not spoiled yet".

    So that´s (if this is true) highly unfair then (to jugde about present jugdements :) )...and then perhaps such nice pre-info posts are pointless .
    You're absolutely right. I made this post just because some people are really negative about the changes and seem to ignore the judgement of the playtesters, whom I joined after I made this post so I still have to test it for myself and see if what they say is indeed true :p

    Playtester



    Empire of Sonnstahl Owner - "Three things make the Empire great: Faith, Steel and Gunpowder." #nowagonsbetterorders
    Undying Dynasties Owner - "From beneath the Sands we will rise and rebuild our Kingdom." #nomandatoryevocation
    Dread Elves Owner - "The call of blood is answered in sundered flesh." #freekillerinstinct
  • umbranar wrote:

    Phosphorus wrote:

    umbranar wrote:

    I think a lot of players are judging the changes wrongly since the public only sees them in a bubble, lacking the possibility to see the changes in the bigger picture because the bigger picture is not spoiled yet. There still has to be the public testing and afterwards, when the 2.0 rules are set in stone, the army book revamps.
    We can only judge with the facts we know now. So this is rather goofy, if I may be so bold. If people/gamers were overwhelmingly full of praises and joy, wouldn´t that be most premature, cause we "are judging the changes wrongly since the public only sees them in a bubble, lacking the possibility to see the changes in the bigger picture because the bigger picture is not spoiled yet".
    So that´s (if this is true) highly unfair then (to jugde about present jugdements :) )...and then perhaps such nice pre-info posts are pointless .
    You're absolutely right. I made this post just because some people are really negative about the changes and seem to ignore the judgement of the playtesters, whom I joined after I made this post so I still have to test it for myself and see if what they say is indeed true :p
    are they really negative ? Or just critical ? :) But again: One should judge such critics in regards, what the critics currently know. But indeed, if there are things the critics (all from buh, bah to full praise and the hole range in between ;) ) don´t know ( the bigger picture,,,(like (possible) changes to game /rule mechanics) , the hole discussion/critic /psoting is futile . :/
    Veteran of the Chaff Wars
  • Just to clarify guys, I don't mind the changes being criticised, as long as the criticism is reasonable, reasoned and nuanced.

    I just found some of the criticism in this thread a bit strange!
    When I argued with people earlier in the thread, it was as "Dan the opinionated player", not "DanT the EoS ACS".

    Although I may disagree with you on the open forum, know that your feedback still informs mine and Felix's discussion behind the scenes.
    Even if the discussion is "do you get what XX is saying?" :P ;)

    Balancing team

    EoS Community Support

    "Two things gamers hate most is change and the way things are" - Stygian
  • Just my personal. Opinion with now insight at all.

    But I am way to long online and seeing other races it seems there is overall an reduction in wardsave.

    4++ is gone and 5++ is the new best ward with some exceptions.


    So yeah 16% better

    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”
    Benjamin Franklin


  • Klexe wrote:

    Just my personal. Opinion with now insight at all.

    But I am way to long online and seeing other races it seems there is overall an reduction in wardsave.

    4++ is gone and 5++ is the new best ward with some exceptions.


    So yeah 16% better
    That 16% is calculated with a bucketload of assumptions...

    But yes, there is a shift to make ward saves less readily available, in part to make them a more meaningful strength for the armies who have special saves in their ASAW.

    Balancing team

    EoS Community Support

    "Two things gamers hate most is change and the way things are" - Stygian
  • Klexe wrote:

    As I play combined arms KoE and HBE before I exactly know how EoS combined arms will be played.

    I also played against many many people.


    And yeah as being in top 10 worldwide of all posters I even a decent knowledge of any good race

    (really.... I can't stand "bad" races like demons chaos etc... Uragh)

    But mostly I just take KoE crossbowmen.

    They are 1:1 exakt the same as light infantry.


    My current list:

    ++ Total: [4498pts] ++



    So thoughts on this?


    So yeah it is almost the same but if I would play a EoS list it would be stronger as the characters give extra orders and I get other stuff.

    While I get less charge dmg output but more grind and hold
    I am sorry Klexe, but your post suggests to me that you may have limited insight into the limits of your own capabilities.

    EoS is definetely not comparable to that extent to KoE, just because of a few similar units.

    To consider many posts a mark of quality isn't particularly sound reasoning either.

    Many players here have probably played EoS for 15+ years, including hundreds of eos tournament games.

    And you conclude that because of slight KoE/EoS similarities, many posts and having played against many people, you are qualified to explain how EoS will work (if you switched to EoS).

    Topping it off with some "units firing at each other in a vacuum" basic calculations.

    Anyway, all opinions and thoughts should be heard. Perspective though.
    Garm glammer ved Gnipahulen!

    Mairzy doats and dozy doats and liddle lamzy divey. A kiddley divey too, wooden shoe.

    The post was edited 4 times, last by AndersN ().