Force Organization without Characters

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  • Force Organization without Characters

    So I have been trying to imagine a better set of force organization categories, for post 2.0. The current set consist of a hodgepodge of band aids derived from the game that shall not be named. The primary reason for force organization is to center the game play, primarily rank and flank. Other reason for force organization is for balancing and discourage gimmicky/toxic play styles. I think using force organization to differentiate units is an abuse/perversion. I would personally prefer dead unit choices that would be address at a latter date.

    The force organization should be simple and should not require a program/spread sheet to easily validate. Of the list I have personally read on the forums and the most common error made is failing to double count units in the categories. I think from a list design and game play perspective, double counting should be avoided. Double counted units frequently punish the selection of a particular unit due to a unit being to boardly categorized, think wood elf light calvary with bows.

    Categories should be define by function not mechanic. The character category is worst of offender, combining force multipliers(buffs), force concentration(fighty), magic, and other miscellaneous roles charcters currently fill. Characters existing as an omni category creates further balancing and design issues. If magics is slightly over costed then it gets left entirely in favor of some other character. I think the character category should be removed and characters should be placed into different categories based on their role.

    For instance, EoS force organization could become:

    Core: (at least 20-40%)
    • Marshalls(with 100 to 150 point limit on items)(Marshalls already have a built in tax preventing them from being used as solo units)(no monsterous mounts)
    • Knight Commander(with 100 to 150 point limit on items + 50 point tax)
    • Heavy Infantry
    • Imperial Gaurd(change body guard to general only)
    • Electoral Calvary
    • Knights Order(requires a Knight Commander for every unit taken, with a 50 point discount)
    • Militia(with out bows or skirmishing)
    Magic/Force Multipliers 15-20%:
    • Wizards
    • Inquisitors?
    • Prelate
    • Arcane Engine
    Medium Range 25-35%:
    • Light Infantry(plus the option to take bows)
    • Reiters
    • Volley Guns(They play fundamentally differently then other artillery due to range)
    • Artificers
    • Militia with Hand Guns


    Artillery 15-20%:
    • Cannons
    • Mortars
    • Rocketeers
    Other(ie not EoS strengths such as force density, deployment shenanigans, leadership shenanigans) 20-40%:
    • Steam Tank
    • Flagellants
    • Imperial Prince(just a marshall able to take full points on magical items and monstrous mounts)
    • Rangers(they have ambush)
    • Knights of the Sun Griffon
  • Interesting point of view. I think there is definitely room for improvement at the moment ie. v1.3 But not sure putting chars in core would make any sense for other armies.
    And having heavy infantry in the same category as Imperial guard could eliminate the heavy infantry, unless they are redisgned to compete.
    and I still believe; Light infantry should fight and shoot in 3 ranks, Imperial Guards should have weaponmaster and both parent and support, and that halbardiers should wear heavy armor. For Sunna and the Emperor!!
  • Interesting idea.

    I'm not sure I like the specific implementation in the OP, but that is quibbling over details.

    I do think serious thought needs to be put into the EoS categories for the full book rework. It will probably depend at least a little on what direction things go in for that book however.

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    "Two things gamers hate most is change and the way things are" - Stygian
  • Smythen wrote:

    Interesting point of view. I think there is definitely room for improvement at the moment ie. v1.3 But not sure putting chars in core would make any sense for other armies.
    And having heavy infantry in the same category as Imperial guard could eliminate the heavy infantry, unless they are redisgned to compete.
    if all I takes to remove a horde/non-elite infantry from the games is to offer a more elite infantry in same category, then horde infantry has a fundamental problem. I think the child/parent rule of allowing a child units to a parents units rank for steadfast would help heavy infantry weather competition.

    I think several hero level units, maybe with slight power shift down, could be placed in other categories.

    Also, it easy to State the armies focus with reduced categories. EoS is horde infantry with calvary plus buffs and medium shooting.

    Finally, putting everything that is not an army's strength into an other category lets us focus the army without removing units.
  • DanT wrote:

    Interesting idea.

    I'm not sure I like the specific implementation in the OP, but that is quibbling over details.

    I do think serious thought needs to be put into the EoS categories for the full book rework. It will probably depend at least a little on what direction things go in for that book however.
    Care to share an thoughts on the possible direction?
  • The Empire was traditionally, 3rd to 7th edition, a force of large units of kinda bad infantry, supported by Elite Human Cavalry, gunpowder shooting, and the Steam tank. (I will ignore halflings, dwarves and ogres for the moment) 8th edition introduced wizard buff wagons, and Demi-Griff Cavalry, and these are carrying over and coming to dominate in this revision. As it currently looks, the most effective builds are going to revolve around Imperial Guard, an elite infantry formation, with almost mandatory Buff Wagons and Monstrous Cavalry for punch. Where did our core infantry and elite horse cavalry go? With cheap, kinda crappy heroes to buff them?
  • Maybe we need a Maruis reform!
    I agree 100% with Gaius Marius on this and I think many of us old dudes. resent the changes in units, thus the outcry with the changes to out knights.
    and I still believe; Light infantry should fight and shoot in 3 ranks, Imperial Guards should have weaponmaster and both parent and support, and that halbardiers should wear heavy armor. For Sunna and the Emperor!!