Sylvan Elf Alternate Hereditary spell poll (Community Feedback)

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  • Sylvan Elf Alternate Hereditary spell poll (Community Feedback)

    Which of the below spells would you find most appropriate as an alternate SE Hereditary Spell? 104
    1.  
      H Witch Wood (45) 43%
    2.  
      Mist Walker (proposed revision) (18) 17%
    3.  
      H Curse of the Mist (17) 16%
    4.  
      H Innate Witchery (16) 15%
    5.  
      H Bewildering Mists (8) 8%
    6.  
      None (explain below) (0) 0%
    Please see post below for explanation of poll and spell descriptions.

    *This poll is for feedback purposes only (the winner does not automatically become our SE Hereditary spell)*

    "This is not a vote for a new SE Hereditary Spell, it is just a vote for what the SE Community would like as a SE Hereditary spell" ;)

    Data Analysis

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Hachiman Taro ().

  • Hi there tree lovers!
    The SE community has come up with some cool suggestions for our Hereditary spell, and now it's time to see which you like the best!

    PLEASE NOTE:

    *THERE IS NO ACTIVE PROPOSAL TO MAKE ANY OF THESE SPELLS THE SE HEREDITARY SPELL CURRENTLY, REGARDLESS OF THE VOTING*

    THIS IS AN EXERCISE IN GETTING FEEDBACK FROM THE SE COMMUNITY, AND YOU SHOULD *NOT* EXPECT THE WINNER (OR ANY OF THE OTHERS) TO BE IMPLEMENTED. TAKE IT AS A FUN EXERCISE IF YOU LIKE.

    THE POLL HOWEVER, MAY BE REFERENCED IN ACS REPORTS TO THE RULES TEAM ETC AS A GUIDE TO SE COMMUNITY FEELING (FOR EXAMPLE).

    WHETHER THAT HAS ANY LONG TERM EFFECT WE DO NOT KNOW, BUT MAYBE.

    Now the important disclaimers are done please vote on which of these spells you would find most appropriate, below.

    All of the spells have been generated from community suggestions. Where there are not specific casting values, that's because we don't feel confident to guess (really that would be a different teams job).

    If don't like any of them feel free to say so, and why below the poll. Your feedback is valued and appreciated!

    H Mist Walker (proposed revision)
    A sacred mist transports a friendly unit through the veil, and protects them from harm from afar.

    [4+] {9+} Range 24" The target may perform a 8″ Magical Move and gains Fly during this move. {The target gains Aegis (+2) against Ranged Attacks to a maximum of 4+}

    The closest to the current proposal, with a few fixes based on community feedback. Probably therefore the most likely to be accepted, and almost certainly will be mentioned in Task Team reports.

    H Witch Wood
    A spectral wood which envelops whole units, protecting friends or sapping the strength of enemies it is placed upon.

    [?+] {??+} Range 24" Models in the target unit counts as being in a forest. Enemy units have Strider cancelled for the duration. {Friendly targets gain +1 Aegis (max 4+), enemy targets suffer -1 strength on their attacks}

    Puts a unit in a forest which has a lot of benefits / synergies with SE (Reroll 1's, stubborn, cover) and causes a lot of problems for our enemies (breaks steadfast, DT tests). Boosted protects us vs all types of attacks, including auto hits which we are weak to, in an ASAW concurrent way (-1 to strength is a similar mechanic to -1 to hit which actually helps vs auto hits, as does aegis).

    H Bewildering Mists
    A bewitching mist confounds our enemies so they fail to strike us down.

    [?+] {??+} Range 12" from caster or Forest terrain. Models in the Target unit {6” Aura of the target unit} must re-roll successful to hit rolls for attacks and suffer -1 to their casting rolls

    Taps into and synergises with our avoiding hits strength in a potentially powerful way, whilst also protecting against magic, with magic missiles in particular proving problematic to us, since they often ignore our strong ability to avoid hits. Aura 6" has been mentioned as a potential hurdle in terms of approval, but presumably any proposal would attract some oversight.

    H Innate Witchery
    The fundamental witchery of the Sylvan Elves cannot be denied!

    Any model which swaps one of its spells for, or otherwise gains, the SE Hereditary spell may choose one of Ravens Wing, Twisted Effigy, or Will-O'-the-Wisp. The model learns this spell as though it were the Hereditary spell.

    Additional: Delete Shadowpath from Druids.

    Adds Witchcraft to SE in a much more flexible way than the current implementation.

    H Curse of the Mist
    A malevolent mist saps the will of our enemies to harm us, and spells their forthcoming doom...

    [?+] {??+} Range 18" Models in the target unit suffer -1 on the to wound rolls of all their attacks. {Attacks against models in the target unitgain +1 on their to wound rolls}

    A spell that offers a flexible defence against all types of damage (including the oft mentioned auto hits) along with (boosted) an effective offensive enhancement that could synergise well to help with one of the other things SE struggle with - taking down high toughness threats

    Data Analysis

    The post was edited 6 times, last by Hachiman Taro ().

  • Adalidsilvano wrote:

    Can we please vote for several options?

    I love every option except from the movement spell, and I think it will be a more reliable survey if we have the option to express it.
    One vote, one winner (and this is my first poll, I haven't figured out how to edit it - I already stuffed it up and deleted it once! ;) )

    I think you'll make do :)

    Data Analysis

  • All of those are great (except Mistwalker which I would still never take), although they generally need a nerf. For example Wildwood cold easily just be:

    [?+] {??+} Range 24" Models in the target unit counts as being in a forest. Enemy units have Strider cancelled for the duration

    Witchwood is great because it allows us to play our forest strength even on tables where there is little/none

    Bewilderings Mists is great in that it feels tricksy and requires us to close range

    Innate Witchery is a really elegant solution... even if I wold ALWAYS pick twisted effigy
  • Alexwellace wrote:

    IHMO Witch Wood does way too many things to be approved they'd never let it pass. Innate Witchery already has semi-precedence in EoS hereditary and might go someway into helping get us back Div in a usable form.
    Its important to remember that this would be a universal spell without replicable. So you would have to choose to use it as an augment or as a hex.

    So you could never get both effects simultaneously.

    So for combat it would boil down to either

    Augment:+1 Aegis save and re-roll ones to wound
    Hex: Lose steadfast and -1 Strength and take DTs if you flee or pursue

    However I agree that it is still a bit OP, since its essentially outright better than the DL hereditary.

    Witch Wood needs to drop the Augment option to have a chance IMHO. The hex itself is more than fine as long as it also effects shooting.
  • Iylankano wrote:

    True, but the -1 to wound cast on a unit helps us if that unit shoots at us, helps if that unit is in combat with us or perhaps most importantly if that unit is casting magic missiles at us. Curse is fantastic and usable all game, from turn 1 to turn 6.
    Yea, dont understand how its the last one on the list of the new spells. IM miffed, im baffled..

    The spell has everything including a boosted buff to actually hurt some big baddies usable both for combat and shooting. While the others dont have this allroundness and is as simple.

    Im.. baffled..

    The post was edited 1 time, last by zqn365 ().

  • Well witchwood is the only one who get some flavor. Effect of spell are important, but less than immersion for me .
    Witchwood create a story and feed the battle imagination more than the other.

    I just regret you dont take in consideration my suggestion in the hereditary spell topic, or ar least something similar, of a spell based on fog effect. Help to forest avoidance playstyle.
    cas-p.net / graphic & web designer.
    SE - VS - O&G - EoS / 9th age player.
  • Innate Witchery gets my vote

    @Hachiman Taro @DJWoodelf @CariadocThorne

    I'm not sure if our access to Divination got shafted as "payment" for Witchcraft or if we lost half the lore as enforcement of our ASAW? If we get Innate Witchery and Shadowpath gets deleted, will the Treefather Ancient and Dryad Matriarch get full access to Divination once again?

    I really hope so because we got Divination literally shoved down our throats for fluff (and some other arbitrary) reasons and got Witchcraft denied hard, once again for fluff (and arbitrary) reasons. Now Divination turned out to be a great lore and I personally was never against the trees getting it in the first place, but the message was clear: "This is a background driven game and the background says this, end of discussion!"

    Now things have changed as Shadowpath clearly shows and that's good! But it's just not acceptable to hamstring the forest side of SE like this, we need to be able to pick our spells. If we can't have access to 100% of Divination I suggest that we cut Divination, cut Innate Witchery, cut Shadowpath and give the trees the choice between Druidism and Witchcraft. Good, nice trees who focus on herding/taking care of the forest or angry, bad trees who focus on bewitching/scaring would be invaders.

    This reduces the quantity of magic missiles and feeds our army strengths so for the ASAW this approach is spot on. And I call BS if we can't because blabla fluff and so on- looking at Shadowpath.
  • landonelf wrote:

    @Snarkhunter any input from your side?
    Causing a unit to count as being in a forest (enemy or friendly) is a versatile and strong effect ... which is why it is a #6 spell in the Paths of Magic. It is okay for a hereditary spell to copy a spell from the Paths (just look at DE / OnG), so no worries about that. But the #6 boosted effect (gaining strider) is meaningless for ALL of our units, so it is fair to consider changing it. Here's some ideas for replacing that, including my comments on how the version above replaces it:

    - [Version listed above] "Have it also remove Strider from enemy units as a basic effect. Boost it to give -1 to strength of enemy unit's attacks or +1 Aegis (max 4+) for friendly units." So now this spell combines two hereditaries (DL + OK) and Druidism #6 (with Strider removal). Not going to be approved. Expect a harsh counterproposal...

    - [My original version] Boost it to "The targeted unit also gains Otherworldly (5+)". So now you won't boost it against enemies, and you aren't trying to remove enemy special rules. Instead, you are gaining 5+ aegis and magical attacks by boosting it on any unit that does not already have a 5+ Aegis and magical attacks (so everything except the forest spirits). Since forest spirits already gain extra benefit from being in a forest (stubborn) ... the idea that elves gain 5+ aegis is nice. Furthermore, some elves also gain stubborn by virtue of being light troops (sentinels, pathfinders, bladedancers). So is it good for elves ... yes. Is it good for forest spirits ... yes. Is it versatile ... very much yes. Does it try to do too much ... getting close, but probably would pass.

    - [Another idea not mentioned] There is no boost. Instead it is replicable. One of the features of the new magic phase is that opponents never have low amounts of dice ... in fact, the minimum is 4 dice while the most common is 5 dice. That means opponents will dispel at least one spell per phase. If a certain spell going off is a pivotal moment in the game ... it will be dispelled. And per the new casting rules, you cannot attempt it again unless it is replicable. You can get around that by casting a similar spell but that would require a master of druidism to take #6. This option allows you to attempt forestation multiple times, while still running shamanism, cosmology, or briar maidens.

    Certainly there are many more ideas. My advice remains: choose something versatile, choose something repeatable, and don't ask for something OP.

    Also my original suggested name "Primeval Echo" is just as good as "Witch Wood" ... don't you agree?

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Snarkhunter ().