Saurian Ancients and Magic in 2.0

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is here! You can read all about it in the news.

  • Saurian Ancients and Magic in 2.0

    So .. how does it work?


    Let me first draw a diagram to show how stuff in the magic phase exactly works:



    Step 1. You enter your Magical phase while you can already have up to 3 Veil tokens. These may be leftovers from the previous magic phase and/or from using the Evocation spells, the attribute of which gives you a Veil token. This number can even be raised to max 6 if you have used your Master Transmutor upgrade (turn a dispell dice into 3 tokens during opponent's phase).

    Step 2. You draw a Flux Card. These offer you and your opponent 4-7 Magic Dice (usually 5/6) and to you extra Veil tokens (2-9, on average a little less than 6).

    Step 3. Siphon the Veil phase: you can Channel to get additional Veil Tokens. Your Wizard Adepts and Wizard Masters give you 1 per model; these include upgraded Skink Priests and Stygiosaurs with the Mystic Traveller upgrade. Also the Imortal Cuatl upgrade, a Sun Engine on the Thyroscutus and artefacts like the Talisman of the Void grant you one extra Veil token in this phase.

    Step 4. You may use your available pool of Veil Tokens to create extra dice in a 3 tokens : 1 dice ratio. However this number is restricted to 4 extra dice = 12 Veil tokens - or 8 Veil Tokens in case of our Master of Reality Cuatl (that can transform them 2 : 1).

    Step 5. You may save 3 Veil tokens for later use. You must forfeit any remaining tokens.

    Step 6. Casting begins.


    What's the problem?

    Compared to other army books, we Saurians have potential access to a lot of extra Veil tokens. I really mean A LOT. Thanks to our CS @Ipower @Just_Flo for all the options!! Yet, while we may easily get an extra 5+ Veil tokens (or more) per turn just by Channeling alone, we have no use whatsoever for any tokens we aren't allowed to use as dice.
    Let alone when we would use the Master of Reality. We could potentially get A LOT of extra dice and subsequently a very dominant Magical Phase! Yet with the cap of 4 extra dice the Master of Reality upgrade is like buying a Ferrari - when you are only allowed to drive 30 MPH/45kmph anyway. Quite wasted. Consequently, no-one takes it. Look for example at the Polish TC SA army lists: all the Cuatls use Grasp of the Immortal. None picked the Master upgrade.

    The thing is that if you use a few of our channeling models and upgrades, we will run into this Veil Token surplus problem sooner or later and will have to forfeit any remaining Veil tokens. While we have paid precious points worth for the upgrades. Sun Engine is 35pts just for Channel (1). We payed for that. Without the additional Channel (1), upgrading a Skink Priests to adept wizard wouldn't cost 70 pts but something like 35-40. Or the Stygio upgrade would be about 65 and not 100. So in some situations you pay double for something you can't use and the more casters you take, the less returns you get. Consequently people start to avoid lists with too many magic bonusses. I think that's subpar design.

    While the SA Army Book is just yearning to have additional options to utilize the Veil tokens. It's made for this kind of extra stuff. With 4 units that can have Channel (Cuatl, Skink Priest, Thyroscutus, Stygiosaur), one upgrade that gives it (Grasp of the Immortal) and 2 in the BRB that gives an extra Channel(1) (Talisman of the void and Wizard's Hat) Saurians should be able to have a formidable Magic Phase. And keep in mind that Saurians are supposed to be among the most powerful magic armies!

    EDIT: when does this problem appear? It mainly depends on the flux card you draw. If you draw card V you can only have 6 extra flux tokens from channel & previous turn before you have to forfeit some. With cards IV, VII and VIII it's only 8 tokens. In turn 6 it's 3 less.
    Of course I am not speaking of the situation with a Cuatl with Master of Reality.

    What do you want to be done about this?

    There's a lot of options to not let the Veil Tokens go to waste - or to even make it worthwhile to invest into models with Channel(1).
    Why else have them in the first place?

    1. Easiest solution: army wide rule to let Saurians have 5 or 6 extra dice. Reasoning: we are supposed to be a strong magical Army. And other armies already have a granted -1 to their casting valuies or -1 to Dispel bonus. Saurians don't have anything like that (except by a rare Engine ofthe Ancient buff). Saurians don't really have ways to boost their spell power. So why not by quantity if not by quality?

    2. Grant SA the option to also convert tokens into dice in the opponents Magic Phase (now only possible in own Magic Phase).

    3. Some other armies already have ways to use the Veil tokens in other ways, like moving terrain (SE) or healing (HbE). So why not add similar options for our own army? And (citing @Morgan Treeman): "it introduces another level of strategy because now you have to decide how you use your tokens, not just automatic convert to dice.".
    • Pay 2 veil tokens: one of the spells known by your wizards cost 1 less to cast. Can not be duplicated on a given spell and can not be combined with the effects of the Engine of the Ancients. Effect lasts 1 turn.
    • Pay 2 veil tokens: the next spell you attempt to cast costs 1 more to dispel.
    • Pay 4 veil tokens: you may cast one spell known by your wizards two times instead of once. Can not be duplicated on a given spell. Effect lasts 1 turn.
    • Pay 3 veil tokens: Increase the range of a given spell by 4". Aura spells only get their range increased by 2". Effect lasts 1 turn.


    Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? 8-)


    PS (completely unrelated) I would VERY MUCH like to see a Druidism Cuatl! Somehing like the Treehugger Toad Cuatl Discipline (50 pts): "Instead of selecting spells, the Cuatl Lord knows 5 spells from Druidism. A single Learned Spell may be exchanged for the Hereditary Spell during Spell Selection"!

    This forum need polls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Playing/painting: SA, DE & HbE ..

    The post was edited 9 times, last by Teowulff ().

  • Teowulff wrote:



    1. Easiest solution: army wide rule to let Saurians have 5 or 6 extra dice. Reasoning: we are supposed to be a strong magical Army. And other armies already have a granted -1 to their casting valuies or -1 to Dispel bonus. Saurians don't have anything like that (except by a rare Engine ofthe Ancient buff). Saurians don't really have ways to boost their spell power. So why not by quantity if not by quality?

    2. Grant SA the option to also convert tokens into dice in the opponents Magic Phase (now only possible in own Magic Phase).

    3. Some other armies already have ways to use the Veil tokens in other ways, like moving terrain (SE) or healing (HbE). So why not add similar options for our own army? And (citing @Morgan Treeman): "it introduces another level of strategy because now you have to decide how you use your tokens, not just automatic convert to dice.".
    • Pay 2 veil tokens: one of the spells known by your wizards cost 1 less to cast. Can not be duplicated on a given spell. Effect lasts 1 turn.
    • Pay 2 veil tokens: the next spell you attempt to cast costs 1 more to dispel.
    • Pay 4 veil tokens: you may cast one spell known by your wizards two times instead of once. Can not be duplicated on a given spell. Effect lasts 1 turn.
    • Pay 3 veil tokens: Increase the range of a given spell by 4". Aura spells only get their range increased by 2". Effect lasts 1 turn.


    Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? 8-)


    PS (completely unrelated) I would VERY MUCH like to see a Druidism Cuatl! Somehing like the Treehugger Toad Cuatl Discipline (50 pts): "Instead of selecting spells, the Cuatl Lord knows 5 spells from Druidism. A single Learned Spell may be exchanged for the Hereditary Spell during Spell Selection"!
    I really like the solutions you proposed as they would make Master of Reality worth its point (especially if taken in conjuction with Evocation) and allow more magic playstyles.
    I also like your idea about Druidism Cuatl, but with a different name :P
  • Channeling extra veil tokens or converting veil tokens in to extra magic dice is no problem for SA. I think they are spoilt for choice to be honest! They have lots of things than can give Channel. They have a special item on the Cuatl Lord that makes it 2:1 instead of 3:1 for creating extra magic dice. With an extremely powerful spell-caster like the Cuatl Lord - they just always dominate the magic phase.